LJP

It has been a while since I began this process. And … it will be a while before it is completed. I first became aware that there even were steamboats in the Fox River Valley when I got a copy of D. C. Mitchell’s Steamboats on the Fox River. I loved the book and all of its photos but Thistle’s octagonal pilot house caught my attention. Thus began a long research and drafting process. The Thistle was built as the J. H. Crawford in 1894 by Ryan Brothers of Oshkosh, Wisconsin for the Wolf River Transportation and Merchandising Company. George Ryan and his brother were Canadians who learned shipbuilding at Short Brothers in Maine. They also built Great Lake boats in Sheboygan and Manitowoc before they finally began ship building in Oshkosh. This background had a profound effect upon the vessels they built. They modeled and lofted their boats. And George never referred to their creations as boats, they were always “ships”. Their boats were what Hunter called the Mosquito Fleet as their size was limited by the 145 by 36-foot Fox River locks. Their long-lived boats were strongly constructed to weather the shallow but tempestuous Lake Winnebago. The J H Crawford was nominally 130 feet long overall with a 25-foot beam. The new owners immediately had a falling out over the proposed Wolf River route for the Crawford. Eight months later the Crawford was sold to the company of McKenzie & [ John H.] Crawford. In 1899 they in turn sold the Crawford to Clark and LeFevre. Clark & LeFevre lengthened the boat by 14 feet and renamed it Thistle. Clark & LeFevre combined interests with the Oshkosh Steamboat Company in 1906. Thistle was finally dismantled at Green Bay in 1915 after a long 21-year life. Thistle had two distinct looks during its life: . Thistle at Berlin, Wisconsin in 1901. Note the double stairs to the saloon deck, main deck with bull rails but without windows or mid-deck bulwarks. The bow bulwarks were added in 1901. This is what the J. H. Crawford probably looked like, albeit 14 feet shorter. Reprinted with permission from the Berlin (Wisconsin) Area Historical Society Thistle at Omro during the period 1904 to 1909. Now there was a grand staircase to the saloon deck, the main deck had windows and there was a mid-deck enclosure. The bull rails were replaced with bulwarks – a very unusual feature. Note the fore bulwarks had a canvas shade drawn down over it. This was used periodically to protect passengers from the elements. This is one of my numerous postcards. The usual routes used by Thistle were on the Lower Fox River from Appleton to Green Bay, the Upper Fox as far as Berlin, the Wolf River as far north as New London, and the east coast of Lake Winnebago. The boat was initially a packet on a regular schedule with freight and passengers. Later years it was primarily used for excursions and for hauling bulk freight, as coal, lumber and wire grass. It was a day boat with no overnight accommodations for passengers although the captain and crew were housed on the boat. Thistle had a normal but long life. This included strandings, sinkings, fires, and unfortunately deaths. The ice-free season was short – typically from mid-April until November – and was dictated by the federal government as to when the bridges and locks would be staffed. In one instance, Thistle used its anchors to break the ice but the ice still cut an inch into the gangplanks which had been hung over its sides. Thistle also ran backwards to use its paddlewheel to break either the ice or the floating bogs that formed in the shallow lakes. But it was ice that eventually caused its demise. In November 1913, Thistle was driven ashore in ice on the east side of Lake Winnebago. Although rescued and run during 1914 season, that damage, a decreasing business, two newer underutilized sternwheelers and a budding World War I could not justify the cost of repairs. It was sent to the breakers in August 1915. Thistle was an excursion craft during a period when many photos were taken and many were used in creating postcards. I ended up with more than 40 photos of Thistle. I bought some on eBay, some came from the D. C Mitchell book, while others came from museums, historical societies and libraries. NewspaperARCHIVE and Newspapers.com provided local period newspaper articles. Local magazines, articles and books contained helpful information. A trip was made to the Steamboat House at the Winneconne Historical Society Museum in Marble Park. Its sole surviving Fox River Valley steamboat superstructure includes some incredible original staterooms. I was very busy taking measurements and photos. In my next post, I will describe how I made Thistle’s plans and include some of those plans.

Incredible photos!

Eric, will this be recorded on YouTube or Zoom so it can be viewed later? I have a conflict at that time that I cannot break. Thanks, LJP

Excellent! Your model is exquisite! And I have ordered an NRG 2021 calendar. LJP

Just got through binge reading your post on Arabia. Wonderful work! Along with your Bertrand, your skills are truly exceptional. I especially like your hull construction on both models. Few people are willing to take a crack at models such as these. I can hardly wait to see the finished product. LJP

Hi Mark, Really neat local sternwheelers! Hard to choose which is the "best". The 50 foot waterline model looks exactly like a Marine Iron Works of Chicago sternwheeler. If you have not acquired a copy of a 1986 reprint of their catalog you may wish to do so. I am certain you will find it both interesting and helpful. I wish you the best of luck making plans and then scratch building. It may not be a fast process but it will be incredibly gratifying. Larry

Hi Bill! Thanks for the info, sounds like someone who has insights from prior trips there. And looking forward to the wine. Thanks, LJP

Thanks Fright! Getting closer to drawing plans. Amazing how sources you would never think to use are incredibly helpful and ones that you expect to use wash out. LJP

Hi Eric, older people can also be dumb. I speak from experience. I should have also spent more time there and taken more pictures. And I never knew about the Evelyn on Shipyard Island until years after. But I appreciate what I have done and learn from it. So next time... Hi Bill, Thanks about the Sicamous info. Very impressive. There are YouTube videos about Sicamous that are great. And I would like to visit Moyie in Kaslo at the same time. In the next few years I want to head back to Vancouver and these two stops are definitely an add-on. Thanks LJP

Hi Michael, I loved the Yukon and want to make it up there again. Wonderful country & people. Murray Lundberg & ExploreNorth have recent photos of the graveyard. As expected, nature has truly taken its toll and now it appears graffiti has found its way onto the wrecks. How sad. Hi Kurt, I have FINALLY found the Thistle build articles in newspaper accounts. Those provided lots of info and confirmed some of the measurements that I had made. But some of that information directly contradicts engine and boiler information that I had obtained from another source. I still want to do the archive research during the long cold Wisconsin winters and go from there regardless of what I do or do not find. The boiler photo has nothing I can compare to measure against. Again, the photo is really poor quality so unless I can find a better quality photo, its use is more of info and less of building assistance. Thanks, LJP

Hi Patrick, and a warm welcome to all of Belgium. The steamboat that I will build, Thistle, appears to have been owned for many years by a family with Belgian ancestry. The Lefevre family name is prevalent in the Belgian settlement community northeast of Green Bay in Door County, although the Thistle family was located in Tustin. Hi Kurt, I could not agree with you more on research rut. But I would really like to have the type and dimensions of the final Thistle boiler so I can determine if I can set the boiler on the main deck (8’ height) or if it needs to be set within the hull like its sister ship Paul L. (a 9’ Scotch Marine boiler). The initial 6 x 12 firebox boiler lasted until 1899 when the then J. H. Crawford was lengthened 14’, renamed Thistle and “two new boilers were put in her lower deck”. New boilers were again added quickly in 1901 and boilers were overhauled in 1914. Ironically, at least one of the 1914 boilers ended up heating an Oshkosh school until the mid-1960’s. I have a very poor-quality newspaper photo of that boiler. I would hope that archival boiler inspection records from the Eighth District will provide an answer. If not, then it is “reconstruction” time. Sadly, possible research literally “went up in smoke” when a fire at the Oshkosh Public Museum in 1994 destroyed their model steamboats and materials. Thanks! LJP

EJ_L, Jim and Geoff thanks for the warm "On Board"! EJ_L, I expect it will take me another year before I complete the research and actually begin building. I keep finding new info which makes me modify the draft plans which I have created. This has really been an interesting process doing the research and I love it. Stay tuned but research and then build is a new process for me and it is taking a long time.

reklein, thanks for the info. I found the historical society but you are correct that it will take some googling to find the catalog. I will find it... Eric, I am jealous that you were there for the '98 Centennial. When I was there in '95 the steamboat Keno in Dawson was closed for renovations for the Centennial. And the Klondike and Nenana were closed for the day by the time the tour got there and we had to leave before they opened the next morning. Walking around them is not like wandering around in them.

Earlier in the forum, I noted comments on the steamboat graveyard across from Dawson City. I have attached several photos that I took in 1995. The steamboats had long since collapsed, were unsafe to walk upon and completely enclosed by the underbrush. Hope you like 'em. LJP

Thanks for the warm welcome! And Kurt, thanks for the Bates info. I have no idea why it took me so long to get onto MSW...

Not quite a year ago I returned to modeling after a long hiatus. Work, life and an incredibly long post-retirement “honey -do” list had kept me from this hobby. In the past, everything was about clipper ships. I had kit bashed models of Cutty Sark (one still uncompleted and may never get done), Thermopylae, Flying Cloud and hull sections. The prospect of returning to spars, masts and rigging no longer intrigues me as it once did. Over that sabbatical I was able to visit museums and museum ships as part of business trips or vacations. On a trip in 1995 what really caught my eye was the Klondike Gold Rush steamboats. I was able to visit the Klondike, Keno and Nenana, along with the remains of the Tutshi and the Dawson City steamboat graveyard. The Institute of Nautical Archeology, John Pollard et al., has had a wonderful series of surveys done on these and other Klondike steamboats. I loved the steamboats but really wanted to research and scratch build a sternwheeler with local interest. I chose the Thistle (1894) of Oshkosh, Wisconsin partially because of its unusual octagonal pilothouse. As a sternwheeler with a 21-year life, although no hull plans exist (no surprise there) there are numerous photos, similar sternwheelers and newspaper articles to draw from. And lots of general publications as Bates, Hunter, Kane and others. And of course, the MSW feeds on Bertrand, Arabia, Herione and Eric’s excellent forum on steamboats. What amazes me is the quality of the models, but also the willingness of all to answer questions non-judgmentally. While I may never rise to that level of mastership and it will take much longer than most, I really appreciate the wonderful interaction with like minded people, regardless of their skill levels or where they live. Thanks, LJP