ClipperFan

@Kenchington another contribution which I forgot to mention before is that I sent my second Nautical Research Journal article for review by author Michael Mjelde who's been studying McKay's final clipper Glory of the Seas for 60 years or so. His exhaustive research included actual meetings and multiple conversations with sailors who served on this clipper. He is now author of three fascinating books on this spectacular clipper. The only corrections he recommended to me were minor source quotes. This as of yet unpublished submission includes a detailed evaluation on a number of McKay clippers with quotes from McLean articles, as I've done here. Mr. Mjelde said he enjoyed the article and didn't dispute any conclusions regarding my interpretation or illustrations of the McKay bow structures. If you look very closely at the sets of bow pictures of the only surviving McKay clipper we have, you'll see how tightly the large nautical devices to which the figurehead mounts adhere to the bow. While they have ornate carvings they are far more than extraneous decorations. They were complex structures which actually twist from a "V" curving element to a vertical termination. Such wooden modeling would have required intensive laminations to accomplish. Knowing his California clipper fleet had to be able to smash into some of the toughest, mighty seas on the planet, it's logical to conclude that McKay would devise a more durable prow to endure such conditions. Reinforced bow components, overlaying a sturdy cutwater which in turn attaches and extends the stem provides a far more rugged platform to which a figurehead is protectively attached and the bowsprit is rigged and mounted. It is our contention that this combination of designed components is precisely what Duncan McLean referred to when he said that Stag Hound represented a new form of navel architecture.

@sob Scott, since cutwaters and navel hoods were never included by McKay in his lines, his widow would have had nothing to trace. Similarly, no monkey rails, splash rails or figureheads have been found on any clipper ship lines either. Rob, Vladimir, myself and occasionally Druxey have been able to keep our communications civil by agreeing that our mutual goals have been to maintain focus on trying to remain as faithful as possible to Donald McKay's historically accurate vessels. However you envision cutwaters and hood ends (or navel hoods) I strongly believe you must at least concur that as her lines are currently portrayed they only show a bare stem, these other two important elements are currently lacking. Perhaps it's personal artistic bias but the two bow revisions I've illustrated appear to show a more refined impressive and complete clipper prow which gracefully incorporates all elements as described.

@sob @rwiederrich and I have both been doing a very deep dive into Donald McKay's remarkable California clippers for 16 years now. While the vast majority of that time has been concentrating on his last magnificent medium clipper Glory of the Seas, it naturally led to examination of his other earlier clippers as well. Our research has led us to some startling conclusions. I personally have been astounded to discover how effectively Donald McKay disguised his nautical bow construction which Rob and I now refer to as the unique McKay bow. Beginning with Stag Hound his inaugural clipper, Duncan McLean a sailor himself and apparently good friend of McKay's describes this vessel as: "Not only is she the largest of her class afloat, but her model may be said to be the original of a new idea in naval architecture." There are 3 components described in the Stag Hound bow: (1) stem, (2) cutwater and (3) hood ends. " The whole rake of her stem on deck is 6 feet, and of her sternpost 2 feet." "An idea of its sharpness may be formed from the fact that, at the load displacement line (as the cutwater is tapered to an angle), a flat surface applied to the bow from its extreme, would show no angle at the hood ends. "A carved and gilded stag hound, represented panting in the chase, and carved work around the hawse-holes and on the ends of her cat-heads, comprise her ornamental work about the bow." Using published Stag Hound lines, I overlaid (2) cutwater and (3) navel hood over the (1) stem adding the stag hound panting in the chase as described. Carved work, just as on Glory of the Seas would embellish both cutwater and navel hoods identically. There's a precise scale included off the port bow of the sketch. One observation I've made is that Duncan McLean is long on construction details and short on describing ornamental work. When he describes Flying Cloud for the first time, McLean actually uses the nautical term "navel hoods." In fact, he makes his most in-depth observations of any McKay bow in his evaluation of the strength and ruggedness of this California clipper fleet bow. "She has neither head nor trail boards, but forming the extreme, where the line of the planksheer and the carved work on the navel hoods terminate, she has the full figure of an angel on the wing, with a trumpet raised to her mouth. The figure is finely designed and exceedingly well executed, and is a beautiful finish to the bow. It is the work of Mr. Gleason, who made the figure-head of the Shooting Star." "Her hood ends are bolted alternately from either side, through each other and the stem, so that the loss of her cutwater would not affect her safety or cause a leak." Utilizing the same published lines for Flying Cloud I reconstructed her complete bow as she's been described ever since the Boston Daily Atlas article was published over a century ago on April 25th, 1851. Admittedly it's tough to see since it's so dark but the very first color woodcut illustration of her being launched includes a wedge-shaped design just above and behind a white winged trumpet bearing angel which the artist used vertical lines to delineate. Just like Glory of the Seas the top line of this shape just happens to align directly with the planksheer molding. A couple years ago I discovered this fascinating oil in an Australian Maritime Museum titled "Flying Cloud off Whitbey, North Yorkshire 1871" by John Scott. Twenty years after her launch, she still has her trumpet bearing winged angel mounted in front of her gilded carved navel hood over a carved cutwater. Typical of older wooden clippers, her once lofty rig has been reduced and her once deep topsails have been replaced with Howe's rig upper and lower topsails on all masts. Another beautiful contemporary piece I found is: "Ship 'Flying Cloud' Alex Wagner, Cmdr, of New York going into Hong Kong." This is an earlier work depicting her when she still had her original taller rig. Detail scene shows a white winged angel bearing a trumpet with painted, carved navel hood and cutwater. Note how in all works, her angel figurehead isn't attached to the bowsprit but mounts below the navel hoods and in front of her cutwater. Artistically portraying these complex shapes is quite a challenge since the prows of these huge clippers were very sharp and their rigs were like skyscrapers. Incidentally, I've personally seen a portion of a substantial iron bar that once mounted the Grecian goddess Athene to her supporting navel hoods on Glory of the Seas when her new Cape Cod owners invited me to see her. I hope this is sufficient evidence to prove conclusively that our understanding of clipper Flying Cloud must be revised to incorporate these unique bow construction components.

Lars Bruzelius' site is currently inaccessible so I'm reciting these dimensions from memory. According to Duncan McLean, the aft end of the poop deck was 24 1/2 feet wide at 8 feet forward of the taffrail. With a 44 foot overall poop deck length, 36 feet further forward, she's only 2 1/2 feet wider. That shouldn't be so dramatic.

@rwiederrich that will be quite a lively model depiction! Did you ever resolve the outer fore width of Stag Hound's rear poop deck? Since the central apartment width was 13 feet and fore starboard captain's cabin was 12 feet, I naturally calculated the starboard was an equal 12 feet. That makes the total forward width 27 feet. Does that look right on your deck?

@Rick310 I was able to download all images from the link I shared to my laptop. Since the museum has a policy about not publishing their images without permission, I didn't upload them.

https://collectionsonline.southstreetseaportmuseum.org/artobject-detail/?dataId=934479&sortBy=Title%20desc&pageNo=1 South Street Seaport Museum, New York has the best Staghound painting by James Edward Buttersworth. I recognize she's referred to as Stag Hound but in his piece and the label affixed to the frame it's a single word. I've read in the Time-Life Seafarer Series book on Clippers that the full title of this work is "Staghound shortening sail ahead of an approaching gale." It's a beautiful piece full of dramatic action. The oncoming storm is to the far left of the scene and it appears there's a downpour accompanying it. While this is a wonderful piece, deck furnishings aren't accurate when compared to the Boston Daily Atlas. FYI: just below the full-size framed image is a smaller one with arrows. Those lead to a few larger close up detailed scenes of this stunning work.

@MikeR nice job on your more naturally sculpted flying fish figurehead.

Rob, that's an excellent suggestion from a 40 year veteran modeler. One which never even occurred to me!

@Luis Felipe send a DM to @Vladimir_Wairoa to see if he can get you a copy from his supplier in Europe.

@Jared behind @rwiederrich starboard broadside Glory of the Seas view is a row of over a dozen forceps which Rob has collected from his career as a denturist. These implements are what he uses for his builds. Perhaps this might help you avoid more breaks.

@Jared have you considered fabricating a jig of sorts to immobilize and protect the section of spar you're attempting to drill? I would also start with the tiniest drill first to create a pilot hole which could then be gradually widened to your desired diameter. Rob has an incredible assortment of such drill bits. Maybe he could give you an idea of where to find some.

@Jared Maybe @rwiederrich can give you some tool suggestions to alleviate those problems.

@Jared Has the tougher wood worked better for you or are they breaking too? Incidentally completing Stag Hound build within 100 days was a condition of the contract.

@Jared I may be getting you confused with another Flying Fish ship modeler. Were you the guy who researched relative hardness of woods due to original supplies snapping, or am I thinking of somebody else?

While we're waiting for @rwiederrich return to Stag Hound modeling activity, I found this fascinating Sea History article. The focus is on her first commander, Captain Josiah Richardson. There's good detail about her maiden voyage. In addition, there's mention of his tragic command of McKay's third California Clipper Staffordshire. There's also a beautiful piece by Charles Robert Patterson. Too bad it's monotone.

@Snug Harbor Johnny @Jared and I discussed the relative hardness of various wooden dowls. He was frustrated with the brittle nature of kit supplied spars. Chances are that you can probably safely drill small holes in tougher wood.

@Jared beautiful repair job! She looks like nothing ever happened to her. Nicely done.

@campbewj It's been too long since I've looked in on your really sharp Flying Fish build. Your aft coach house profile is really nice. It looks very similar to how the real one on Glory of the Seas narrowed to accomodate working of the ship by her crew. Rob and I have discovered some more facts about the real McKay vessel versus commercial plans. We're doing a project on McKay's premier vessel, the extreme California clipper Stag Hound. While discussing the forward forecastle windlass and bulkhead arrangement we arrived at a completely different plan than current commercial plans show. This has developed from the relatively low interior forecastle height. In the case of Stag Hound, Flying Cloud and Flying Fish, Duncan McLean states their deck height was set at that of the main rail. For both Stag Hound and Flying Cloud that's 5' but for Flying Fish it was a mere 4'6". Keep in mind, decks were 3 & 1/2" thick, making interior height that much lower. Here's the issue we discovered. This area was set up to provide accommodations for a watch of the crew. So in order to provide that, bulkhead walls would have to been higher and the forecastle would have been closed, not open as plans show. Here's an excerpt describing this set up for Flying Fish. This completely contradicts the Ben Lankford lay out. I suspect he patterned it after the Scottish tea clipper Cutty Sark. McLean states that twin companions in the wings of the forecastle lead to crew quarters below. Before these (down below) there are waterclosets, lockers, etc.He also says this area was lofty, well lit and ventilated. Rob and I have concluded there most likely was a 3' drop, creating 7' high bulkheads. Since the windlass can't be mounted above, it too was mounted below. Here's how I envision this revised topgallant forecastle bulkhead for Stag Hound. Flying Cloud and Flying Fish would have had similar arrangements. That eliminates the twin free standing twin structures abaft the forecastle as well as depiction of a windlass crammed into an awkward area too tight to comfortably work in. When you think about McKays deck heights in every other area of his ships, they're all 7' or higher. Why would he then put the forecastle crew in cramped confines? I realize this revelation comes too late for your current build but I thought you would appreciate knowing our latest developments as we discover them.

@Jared Rob apparently developed his technique over 40+ years of model ship building. Chances are, he might have more closely followed instructions too and then gradually modified it through experience.

@Jared that's why @rwiederrich says he rigs from the inside out and going from the mizzen forward. It's a bear to access inner fife rails if there's outer rigging blocking you. He rigs from mizzen forward because it allows him to control stress on the masts.

@Jared understood. I would check in with Rob as to how far to proceed in securing the mizzen topmast before you start rigging that section.

@Jared It's hard to tell for sure but from your stern view, it looks like the mizzen topsail mast has a slight left lean, besides the lower mast. How it will appear once the lower mast is corrected might clear it up.

Rick, From the few contemporary accounts that I've read about the weatherly qualities of Stag Hound her Captain gave her high praise, stating there wasn't another ship that could pass her. He also said she was a very stable and dry ship. What came as a surprise to me though was that the 3 decker Webb California Clipper Challenge had an even more extreme 43" at half-hull.