DaveBaxt

19 minutes ago, Jerry said:

David,

Many thanks for the "thread" explanation.  I can see its use.  Regarding the edgewise problem...that's when you have to consider tapering the planks.

Have a nice supper,

Jerry

 

Thanks once again  for your input Jerry which is always welcomed. Even with my planks tapered I am still have a few issues with them breaking. I have found by applying heat with the heat iron before physically bending the plank I do have some success. However after your suggestion it is clear that I am not allowing them to soak for long enough. Hopefully I can now proceed without too much trouble. Best regards Dave. 

Hello Jerry. The idea of the 4" pipe sound brilliant and just what I need. Please don,t take this the wrong way but the idea of the thread is to break it into sections. The idea behind is explained on MSW by Chuck Passario.Here is the link. I have tried using planks instead of thread but found thes just got in the way. I am assuming with this approach you can see whether of not you need to drop planks or gain planks ( sorry if this is the wrong terminology)

Here is the links. Chuck has also produced a few videos which shows his technique of bending planks edge ways which is where I am having a problem.

Hre is the link to the information which is on this website.

http://modelshipworldforum.com/resources/Framing_and_Planking/Lining Off your hull for planking.pdf

And here is the link to Chucks video, the first of three.

19 minutes ago, Jerry said:

Hello Dave,

 

As I continue reading your trials and tribulations some of my building tricks have come back to mind.  I'm sorry that you are having trouble bending the planking. So, with respect to bending the planks, especially at the bow where the angles are more severe soaking them for a long time allowed me to bend them without breaking any.  What I did when I first began to build HMS Victory in 2013, I bought a 4 foot length of 4" PVC and two end caps.  One was glued to one end of the 4' piece and the other was just fitted to the other end but not glue.  I filled this with about 1 meter of water and put all my planking strips in it and removed them only as I need them.  It didn't hurt one bit that they were soaking for days and the result was never breaking a planking strip when bending it around severe curves.  I believe soaking them for ten minutes is not long enough and furthermore, the water doesn't have to be hot if you soak them long enough.  As i said, things are coming back to me little by little and hopefully I'll be able to help you better as time goes on.  Also, what is the purpose of the black threads?  When I built my ships I never did anything but started planking and kept going without threads or anything else.  Check my logs, they're all listed below and see how my planking was done; you won't see anything but planking strips...no tape or threads.  I hope I'm not sounding mean but I really want to help you so I'm just telling you how I feel.  Unless I'm  missing something, I believe you're adding unnecessary steps to the build.  I look forward to your further progress.

Best,

Jerry

Just completed the first Band ( 10 planks ) I attempted to fit full length planks but due to breaking a few when bending I ended up using more planks than I would have liked. I do have a few spares which I managed to source but these are 5 mm wide and not 6. I am trying to bend the planks edge ways as in chucks videos and this is where I have just pushed them a fraction too far and split.

          As you can see in the photos I have also scrapped the idea of using tape and have now used black rigging rope. Hopefully this will last a bit longer. I have also adjusted them better so they lay a bit better. Because I have moved them I will need to measure up again and will probably just mark off a band at a time. I also think I may need to drop a few planks forward as in one of the bands it looks a bit tight. I am not sure if this is the correct approach as it is very time consuming and there will be another layer of planks on top. I am not worried how long it takes me as I need the practice in trying to perfect this way of laying planks.

I am currently building the Bounty made by Amati. The instructions say that Stem post , keel and stern post must be fitted after the first layer of planking and before the second layer of planking . The width of the Stem post or as they call the cut water has a thickness of 5 mm as does the stern post . The keel which fits on to the false keel is only 4 mm . It has been suggested on the set of Bounty videos that to make up the difference  of 1 mm the keel should be planked ( second planks are 0.5 mm thick ) My question is :- How is it possible to ensure that these all line up, especially as the hull is already planked? Is there an accurate way of doing this or is it just by line of sight? Sorry for the earlier mistakes.

12 hours ago, Jerry said:

Hello Dave,

To make sure that I haven't given you any wrong information, I double checked my Bounty Log .  You will see that when Charlene and I planked the hull, we did, indeed, run our planking the entire length of the hull.  Only when we were near completion we had to fill in with shorter pieces of planking.  Please click on the HMS Bounty link at the end of this post to see what I mean.  I admire your patience and thoroughness so please don't let me interfere with your routine.

Best,

Jerry

I appreciate where you are coming from Jerry and will attempt the full planks where I can , When I am bending the planks I am having to soak them in hot water for 10 minutes and have been doing this in a sealed flask which governs the length of my planks. I wish I had access to steaming the planks but I am doing this model out of the house and in a purpose build shed so do not have any heating other than an electric kettle. At the moment I should manage as I only need to bend one end. Thanks once again for your input. Best regards Dave

7 hours ago, Thunder said:

Hi, just seen your build for the first time. Do not know much about this kit but looks like you have used walnut for the deck planking and the first planking, is this correct? Usually this would be for the second planking only, don't want you to end up short for that.

The instructions say that both decks and second Hull  layer are 0.5 x 4 mm Walnut . First layer hull planking is 1.5 mm x 6 mm. Walnut Thanks for asking best regards Dave

Quick update regarding planking. The photos are showing the easiest way of securing the Walnut planks  for me as the fold back clips are not cutting it. I am also having to drill tiny holes in the edges of the bulwarks to make getting the large headed pins to go in easier. This way I am not actually  drilling the planks but just to the side in the hope that this will not allow any gaps between the planks. As you cab see from one of the photos I did not acheive this as hoped so had to use a couple of clamps to keep the planks together. This is a slow process but I am in no hurry and would like to make as good a job as I can., even though these planks will be hidden by the second layer of planking.Also marking the sections using modelling tape as not been a success so might replace them with thread from the kit. Hope there is a bit spare in the kit.

5 hours ago, DaveBaxt said:

 

   Cheers    sticker. Thanks  for your Input.  I think they will be the same videos, I am not sure if they are Amatis official videos however the guy in the video keeps mentioning that it is a commisiioned  Bounty and  due to the Amati introduction and a link to the videos from their website perhaps it was commissiod by Amati. Just a thought and could be wrong.

4 hours ago, Thunder said:

Hi, just seen your build for the first time. Do not know much about this kit but looks like you have used walnut for the deck planking and the first planking, is this correct? Usually this would be for the second planking only, don't want you to end up short for that.

Yes definately Walnut 1.5 mm x 6 mm and it a real pain a very slow process of ahaping and bending. I have already split quite a few. As Jerry has said it is much easier to taper them for bending.  I have considered using Lime strips 1.5 mm x 5 mm which is much easier to work with however as difficult it is I think I will continue. I have received a number of suggestion from a number of people  see 

I have made a start and will post some more photos of the best way forward for me. Thanks once again for you question.

Before I pick my next model I will ask someone who has previously build it what the planks are made of and if the instructions are in English.

Here are a couple of photos of my Planking fan and marking off the hull. I am not sure whether to use this method or split the sections into 4 where the planks will naturally lay flat. The last time I did this my planking turned out ok but it took me ages. I think I will  mark the hull of using the planking fan and then go over with a few temporary planks and see how it looks. 

14 hours ago, Jerry said:

I'm glad you mentioned  tapering the planks, Dave, as that's the only way you'll manage the compound curves of the hull.  I looked over our Bounty and truthfully, looking at a finished  model doesn't help in any way.  Also, you never mentioned what you intend to do about the pins holding the planking.

I  must admit, you're getting my interest peaked...I hope I can be of help.

Best,

Jerry

Hello again Jerry and welcome back.Regards the pins. It is my intention of no longer using the Brass pins as I am worried in case they wil cause me problems with the second layer  of planking. The ones I have already used I will try and remove and if I can,t I will try and file them flush if possible. I am planning on using drawing pins and scrap pieces of wood pushed into the edges of the bulkheads together with fold back clips and basicaly anything that will allow me to keep the planks flat and prevent as much of clinkering ( I think it is called that) as possible.

           Regards getting your interest back up I really hope so Jerry as I am sure your experiences will be invaluable, especially later on when I try rigging for the first time

12 hours ago, sticker said:

Hi davebaxt     in your first post you mention the videos,   is that amatis  official videos ?   i ask this because i had a look for myself  and saw that a chap called Davaoshipmodeller has done a series on amatis bounty   , he does models for a living  and it maybe worth a look  ,there do seem to be a few issuses with this kit  but he shows you how to get round them,  good luck with the kit   you will get there !     bluff bows = test of patience     cheers    sticker. Thanks  for your Input.  I think they will be the same videos, I am not sure if they are Amatis official videos however the guy in the video keeps mentioning that it is a commisiioned  Bounty and  due to the Amati introduction and a link to the videos from their website perhaps it was commissiod by Amati. Just a thought and could be wrong.

3 hours ago, Jerry said:

Hello Dave,

Looks to me like you're well on your way.  Very nice job on the shaping of the balsa blocks.  Are you planning to remove the pins that are holding your four rows of planking in place? Also please forgive me if my question sounds strange but I don't recall applying planking strips half way.  It's been awhile so maybe I'm wrong but I believe when planking I ran the strips completely fore to aft.  I won't be insulted if you set me straight.  Keep going, looking good.

Best,

Jerry

Thanks Jerry and welcome aboard. I think in the instructions it does say to plank that part of the hull but not until the bulwark to keel is completed. The guy in the Amati video used 1 mm plywood instead of planking which is not in the kit. I probably would have done the same but I have not got any  spare plywood of that size..I also wanted to see how I would get on bending the planks. I managed this but its far from perfect .I also wanted to get a line going the full length of the ship as I thought it would be easier for lining off the hull. I am planing on tapering the planks where needed and trying Chucks method of bending and fitting the planks.   Please feel free to add anything else which you feel could be incorrect as thats what I am here for to learn.

Regards the pins. I will try and remove them if I can't get them out will just file the heads down. I am planning on not using anymore if I can and just use pins with a flat piece of scrap wood for securing. I have also thought about using tree nails. Now that I have started planking I am also using fold back clips or here in the uk call bull dog clips Cheers Dave

Latest . Completed attaching bulkheads to keel. Fitted and shaped strengthening pieces to stem and stern. Fitted balsa wood blocks to bow and stern and sanded to shape . Fitted bulwatks made out of 1mm plywood and then fitted a number of planks t gave the same distance from the deck

Thank you everyone for some fantastic solutions. I have been using the scrap bits of wood to secure the plank but have been using pins instead of nails.

Not sure if the nails I have will allow a scrap of would underneath the nail head but will give it a go. I see some people  are using cocktail sicks as tree nails and I have a number of these at had so might give this a try and see how that goes. I could of coarse as you suggested just use the nails and file the heads flush with the plank when the glue has dried. I will need a lot of nails nut they are not expensive. I will probably try the other solution first and see how I get on.Any thoughts on this would be more than welcome. 

ps I have been using a electric plank bender to bend the planks which I am slowly getting the hang of this. I have will probably use steam at some stage as there are a few pieces the need bending to fit on the gun whales and I was thinking of making a jig for this purpose. Cheers Dave

1 hour ago, sticker said:

Hi there  have you thought about treenails   youknow from toothpicks      by the way  which model are you doing that first planks in walnut as this is usually the second planking  ?    It seems that most models use  cheaper wood for first planks   which you would just glue down   ,but i may be wrong  and thats something my wife tells me a lot          cheers      sticker

Hello there and thanks for your quick reply. Treenails, you got me there. I will have to ask google see what I get. The model is the HMS Bounty by Amati. All the wood in the box is Walnut including 1.5 x 6 mm  and  0.5 x 4 mm. 

AS I am about to star on the first layer of planking which happens to be Walnut 1.5 mm x 6 mm , which is not the easiest to bend, however I am managing . The problem seems to be securing the planks. As there will be a second row of planking I thought I would like to try pinning the planks. I have laid a few and after drilling the planks I am finding it much easier using 7mm brass nails However I thought it would be a good idea to remove them afterwards however I am finding this almost impossible without damaging the planks. Is ther an easy way to remove them?

                    I could of coarse just use clamps but wonder if the planks will sit as well due to the difficulty of bending.I know there are several different ways of clamping but just thought about nails.

On 12/6/2020 at 8:56 PM, LyleK1 said:

I'll start by saying, I wasn't planning on doing a build log...

There are a 15 logs for the same model on MSW already. However, at last check, only one was to completion. The other logs offer a lot of help and information but only as far as they go!

So, even though I started the model 3 months ago, I did take pictures along the way and any details I may have left out can easily be found on the other logs. I pledge to keep this log running to the models completion, however long that takes.

This is my 4th model and I continue to learn new techniques and ideas. I think that will never stop. There are so many masters on this forum! I hope, someday, to be as capable as them.

I am attempting to keep this model as historically accurate as I can based on the plans and the book "The anatomy of a ship : The armed transport Bounty". Additionally, I will be aging or weathering the ship as I build it to give it that "realistic" look. This is the first time I've tried this method and as you'll see it has been challenging but also a lot of fun!

Before I start, I'd like to thank several builders that have inspired and unknowingly helped me to this point. Many are still on my favorites list and all have build logs that you may want to reference too:

Captain Al

Cobr

Grendel

Rcmdvr

Thomaslambo

Tim Moore

Trig

There are probably a couple more that I missed...

Okay, lets get started!

I didn't bother taking pictures of the box, unpacking and indexing the parts. I'm sure there are plenty of those out there! I found the contents to be of very good quality and I was not missing any parts or components. The scale drawings and picture book are very detailed. The instruction book is probably a bit sparse if you are new to modeling. The picture book helps fill in some of the gaps but frankly, without some of the build logs, it would be very difficult in places.

The first few steps are pretty straight forward:

1.  Cut out the keel and frames

2.  Sand the little tags off and remove the charred layer for better glue adhesion.

3.  I chose to stain the frames and keel with a walnut stain, taking care to keep stain away from the areas to be glues. It took two coats to get to the color I wanted. The picture below was taken with just one coat.

 

I purchased (prior to starting this model) a  model ship building slip: 

 

It has been a great tool for holding the model and I expect to use it throughout the build. Look at the above log for more details... worth every penny!

It is extremely important that the keel is kept straight and that each frame is installed plumb and level to the keel. This CANNOT BE STRESSED ENOUGH!!

If any of these are off, you'll struggle with it throughout the build. A word of caution... Make sure the table or bench is level too... If it isn't, make note of the difference and ensure that the identical difference is transferred to your model as you build it.

As you can see in the pictures above the building slip has an attachment to help keep the frames at 90 degrees to the keel and the frames were leveled using a small level resting on the top of the frames before gluing and taping into place. Each frame was allowed to dry several hours before the next frames was added.

More to come later today or tomorrow.

I really Like the look of this kit and just wondered if you could rotate this 180 degrees? I much prefer to have something to support the ship whilst planking.

I have made a jig for this but I have only just started on my second model and already I have had to modify it twice.

I have just completed the fitting of the bulkheads and the strengthening pieces.for and aft the ones fwd were way out and i had to remove a lot of wood to make them fit. I will add some photos as regards the assembly of the bulheads with the great help of using lego  to make sure they were 90 degs to the keel and parallel to each other.

I have a number of questions regarding the next way to go. The instructions say after checking everything lines up with the deck,it can then be fitted after first planking it. However in the videos the guy does not carry out the planking until the deck is fitted,however in both cases the deck is fitted before the start of planking the hull. I have thought for me it would be easier to plank the hull first as I would like to use a home made jig ,whereby it is secured to the bulkheads which would be more difficult if the deck was fitted. I appreciate that there would be less chance of twisting if the deck was fitted first. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

                 When I do start the first layer of planking I intend to try chucks way and line off the hull first. Also According to the instructions and videos the stem piece is not fitted until the first layer of planking is completed but before the second layer, however after watching chucks videos on planking I notice that the stem piece is already fitted before the planking . I am not sure if it will make much difference unless you have a rabbit .This will then help to reduce the keel and the stem will help to secure the planks. Unfortunatley  the instructions to not show rabbiting and the guy in the video has not done this either . I would be most grateful for any input on both these issues before I go ahead.

I have just completed the fitting of the bulkheads and the strengthening pieces.for and aft the ones fwd were way out and i had to remove a lot of wood to make them fit. I will add some photos as regards the assembly of the bulheads with the great help of using lego  to make sure they were 90 degs to the keel and parallel to each other.

I have a number of questions regarding the next way to go. The instructions say after checking everything lines up with the deck,it can then be fitted after first planking it. However in the videos the guy does not carry out the planking until the deck is fitted,however in both cases the deck is fitted before the start of planking the hull. I have thought for me it would be easier to plank the hull first as I would like to use a home made jig ,whereby it is secured to the bulkheads which would be more difficult if the deck was fitted. I appreciate that there would be less chance of twisting if the deck was fitted first. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

                 When I do start the first layer of planking I intend to try chucks way and line off the hull first. Also According to the instructions and videos the stem piece is not fitted until the first layer of planking is completed but before the second layer, however after watching chucks videos on planking I notice that the stem piece is already fitted before the planking . I am not sure if it will make much difference unless you have a rabbit .This will then help to reduce the keel and the stem will help to secure the planks. Unfortunatley  the instructions to not show rabbiting and the guy in the video has not done this either . I would be most grateful for any input on both these issues before I go ahead.

Hello all. I am still relatively new to buillding models and have just completed my first model which was fairly straight forward. However I think I have really upped my game with this one hopefully I haven,t  bit off more than I can chew. The reason I picked this one is that Amati have 17 videos on how to assemble on Youtube.

I have checked that everything is in the box, although it only gives a list but not how many of each,however it all appears to be there. 

                I have already come across a few issues which were explained in the  first video 

  mainly with assembly of the keel , frames, false deck support pieces and false deck. The only problem so far which has caused some thought which although pointed out in the video which was the hole in the false deck for the mizzen mast lines up with one of the bulkheads. Unfortunately the guy on the video does not mention a solution to this problem. Fortunately I believe i have found a way . I will try and post a couple of photos which  show how I have done this. I am of coarse assuming that the hole in the deck is accurate.

Thanks for all you input guys and some good points worth considering. Before I start building my next Ship. I will try and start a log ,hopefully that we if I have any issues I can get help before making too many mistakes. 

3 hours ago, amateur said:

I needed a cable, and cables are made from three separate ropes. 

Normale ropes should be made from single yarns..

 

The thickness needed can be computed, but has a large trial and error in them. 

 

Amati rope has some stretch, but it required no real stretching. What I did not like in the amati rope, was that especially the smaller sizes were not so clearly defined: you can't see the separate strings that makes up the rope. 

 

Jan

This was one of the reasons I thought about buy a different rope instead of going with the Amity. As this could work out expensive ,thought I would just replace the standing rigging. I also thought as this is my first ship with rigging perhaps I should just go with the Amity just so I can compare it with other model suppliers . I am planning picking models from different makes just so I can compare how good/bad they are,unless someone does not recomend a particular kit. My next model I was thinking of the Endeavour made by Caldercraft.Just a thought but will get some input first.