Roman
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Everything posted by Roman
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No disputes at all Rado. I love what you are doing. I follow you with much interest because of your passion for this and your skills as a designer and model maker. I understand there is not much original material to work with, yet you manage to bring it to life. Keep it coming. -
Crespo's work is one of the best studies of this subject. This ship was built english style and that explains his tendency; outside of this and going back to plans and models, it is worth mentioning that PB-0002 plan shows what appears to be the ship portrayed in PB-0197 in drydock at La Carraca with a profile of the vessel and dock. The San Carlos was a smaller vessel some 94 guns or so dated 1765 Built Habana and this corresponds to PB-0003. There is also another drawing reported to be of the Trinidad officers boarding entrance detail at the side of the ship PB-0097. Although not of Trinidad PB-0092 by Bryant and the english style as well as PB-0343 for Stern and Bow details, These are all worth looking at. The carving on the stern of the model clearly carved El RL Carlos 1766. This is beieved by many to just represent a gesture to the King not to mention trying to gain the Royal favor. I am sure this was lobbying and the Mullans were not the first.
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I understand your reservations. Currently the best we have is those plans. Some say the US plan has the hand of Mullan while the Russian plan is by Landa and both show same figurehead despite regulatory Lion. The lack of stern ornamentation is of not much relevance at this point as most plans of the period did not illustrate this. By the way the model attributed to Mullan built between 1766 and 1767 is said to be that of the Real Carlos this seems to have been a dedication of the model to the king contibuting to the confusion; this is according to Gonzalez Aller. You are doing a wonderful job. Keep it up.
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Look at the US or Russian plans if you can locate, it shows these details on the sheer plan. I admire your effort on this, not an easy subject.
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Hi Mark, La Licorne 1755 has been compared at times with La Renomee, as I do not have the plans to La Licorne I reffered to Renomee and there I see the staggered arrangement. From my perspective it is curious, at times I feel that it almost looks like an after thought to have these immediately above the main ports. Much the same way Boeing Aircraft produces an airframe for 300 passengers and the airline adds another 40 seats to pack us all like sardines. (Sorry my feelings for airlines was not meant to be public). I guess that was my initial thought. The period in question however is 1790's and by this time the science was well established but obviously not standardised. Interesting indeed Mark I will have to seek out your build of La Licorne.
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Seems like this practice was quite common at least in terms of being illustrated on British draughts. The Artois class designed by Sir John Henslow 1793, Surprise 38 guns of 1810 and the Bacchante Lively class shows similar staggered arrangements. On the other hand Hyperion 32 guns by William Gibson ordered 1805, Granicus 36 guns and a few others show some of their ports directly above. All very interesting, thanks for posting it Joss.
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Perhaps instead of deleting, the authors can edit and post the translated comments. The order of the thread will not be affected. It is such interesting topic. Keep up all the good model making here and in Italy or anywhere were good efforts are made.
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I am afraid this is the present. You are right though. 3d printing is one more tool in the model makers arsenal.
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Beautiful work Jerry, glad you are sharing your build. Will you build the internal details of the hull?
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No worries Anaga, that is good stuff. Jorge Juan is a very significant figure for the reasons you have stated and for others that had important political ramifications. He was a master at his art both political and scientific. In any case I am very familiar with his two volumes work "Examen Maritimo". Do not worry about reproductive rights I own an original copy. Hope this helps those interested. Sorry for deviating from the stern topic. Saludos
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I am curious Anaga, what part of what I've said you disagree with. The mere fact that the Trinidad from the mind of an Irish man existed is evidence of this technical know how transfer between nations. This idea is practiced to this day. I am not saying that Spain did not have Architects competent enough to build great ships; I happen to think that Spanish ships were beautiful in design incorporating what was good in the architecture of the day but it was not always home grown. Like I said before; Mullan, Rooth, Turner, Gauthier and others were not Spaniards. This does not diminish Spain at all, quite the contrary it was very forward thinking and it still is to this day. Best regards Roman
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Way to go Tony, indeed now you know why everyone raves about it. Regards
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Speaking of influences,most think that Spains dominace of the Seas died with the failed invasion of the Armada in the 16th century. The fact is that Spain was too occupied trying to maintain dominance of its colonies and not much time for technical developments that were easily acquired thru captures or secret diplomacy, such as the events with Jorge Juan. The Sun never set in the Spanish empire either but it was the British that popularised the term. Spain did what nations with interests do, purchased the technology so as to stay in the game. France on the other hand was more developed in terms of Naval Architecture although not perfect by any means but they pushed the science forward and Spain bought into it from France. Francico Gauthier comes to mind. Much the same way the Spanish builders sold their services to the French when France needed to build Chevecs such as "Le Requin" and others. Sorry I did not mean to deviate from the topic of Trinidad.
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The draught is very large. Do not overlook Museu Maritim in Barcelona. I am not that versed in this ship but the building was done in the English style hence Mateo Mullan and his son Ignacio Mullan who completed it. The remodel of the ship after launch if I recall in Ferrol was probably the result of conflicts between the established groups and Jorge Juan's admiration for the British system. I must say this admiration was well founded. As reflected in many ways by the graphic works by the Marques de la Victoria. There were other prolific British builders of the time that had a profound effect in the final transformation of Spanish sail that culminated with the works of perhaps the most famous Romero de Landa and Retamosa. I will not post the image of the figurehead in question. But if you need it I can email direct to you.
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Are you familiar with this image of Santisima Trinidad?
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If you do not mind spending a little to get alot..... the Tormek T-3 or T-7
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Those of us who happen to be lucky enough to own one of Jim's saws, know the value of a tool that is nothing less than a "Functional Heirloom". I have owned very large quality saws, like the Altendorf F-45 all digitised, sliding table, etc, etc; The Inca saw's made in Switzerland, tools that I still own and I must say that the one closest to my heart is that little Byrnes saw. I happen to live just a couple of hours away from Jim in Florida and when I visit his facility I feel like a kid in a toy store. The first time you touch one of these, you will understand how special they are. Best regards to you Antony from Roman in Tampa
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