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Bob I am always happy to find another build that relates and adds background to my attempts. I had read about Astrolabe in passing while reading the book…The Explorations to the Antarctic Peninsula by Hugh Allan. I was reading it in general interest but more to find who was there around the same time as HMS Terror and Erebus. In reading other books it was understood that the British Ross expedition was expedited because of the your new fried Capt Dumont, the French, Americans and others all headed to and claiming land in the Orkney and other islands in the 1830 era. The corvette Astrolabe nee Coquille, along with her consort Zelee was apparently stuck in the ice for a week and there are images I am sure you have seen. Anyway, as the story goes their purpose was more focused on the overall French interest in the South Pacific and they were apparently quite successful. Also, just to sail into pack ice and escape is no little thing. Any wooden vessel going around the world, she went twice, says alot about her. I look forward to dropping in from time to time. I am also sorry there is no short cut around all those ratline hitches. I decided to think about it as knitting a sweater. Something I could not do very well, I am sure. My solution is I never did too many in a sitting. Cheers
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HMS Terror by Jond - OcCre - 1:75
Jond replied to Jond's topic in - Kit build logs for subjects built from 1801 - 1850
Kieth and Bob, thank you both for your encouragement. I will soon be off in a new world of making ice. Waiting on glue for styrofoam at the moment. Bob. welcome and thanks for showing me another wonderful and relevant build to follow. Astrolabe seems amazing and I will flip over there with more comments about the book. the Exploration of the Antarctic peninsula by Hugh Allan. It is an fast read through some 30 expeditions between 1819 and 1937. Your captain was number 15 and James Ross leading Erebus and Terror was number 18. if you are like me and read too much, it is a great addition. Leave it to say that Astrolabe's cruise to the Antarctic was a key element to expedite getting both Erebus and Terror set up and ready to sail in the late 1930"s. cheers- 41 replies
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Jond reacted to a post in a topic: HMS Terror by Jond - OcCre - 1:75
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HMS Terror by Jond - OcCre - 1:75
Jond replied to Jond's topic in - Kit build logs for subjects built from 1801 - 1850
13.1 sneak preview step 1 diorama these four views show Terror sitting in the diorama just to show off major massing..... step i I sliced and cut styrofoam to make up the general massing before using the cutter wand and wire to cut ice. the next step will be to glue it together without water [ acrylic ]and then carve the edges of the ices. after that step will be all new for me. I also have pieces a little thicker that the above water ice to glued and carved to the underside. anyway it is friday and a good reason to celebrate on the model itself rigging continues as well. cheers- 41 replies
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Jond replied to Jond's topic in - Kit build logs for subjects built from 1801 - 1850
Thank you Keith for the insight and gentle push. I was outside earlier this morning. It is 15 F here with winds steadily gusting past 20mph. The snow is too hard to shovel. After 15 minute the dog looked at me and sort of said what are we doing out here. We could be in the shop!😃 After digesting your comment the light bulb went off. If it were July - August and they we sailing for two days across the Davis Strait, sure push up that extra sail off that extra boom. But by fall it was easily 15deg F and wind often much more than 20 mph, and they would not have that extra jib boom rigged. You and the local weather convinced me....the flying jib boom shall ride on deck in storage. 11-12 for the record here are the last two photos of her rigged [ minus the sail of course} cheers and thanks as always for for your comments...- 41 replies
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HMS Terror by Jond - OcCre - 1:75
Jond replied to Jond's topic in - Kit build logs for subjects built from 1801 - 1850
12 first part of rigging I start by admitting I am over my pay grade, especially when showing how things were done 180 years ago. So, for experts out there I am not challenging anything, just sharing my applied recreational sailor’s logic to show the vessel still in the icy water, and the crew removing three spars. In general, I tried to dual task lines and not just add extra lines for everything. I break this sequence up by mast. First however there are a few things I decided as to what the completed vessel would have had going north that affect all three masts. example: I added the fore and main trysails. I choose to include them for three reasons: · First, I defer to the decision of Mathew Betts who included them on his drawings that I understand reflects what he felt represent as the 1845 design. · Second is a practical sense. I suspect the main purpose of these two gaffs was for constant movement of objects on deck. By example, how without them would one load the sledge and then the stacked boats aft of the foremast or again boats on the high racks behind the main mast? · Finally, the need for fore and aft sails to navigate through narrow ice leads. Having been a recreational sailor, I have respect for these guys threading a needle through ice. Also, for ferocious wind changes, these sails were easy and fast to set or close. Useful as a storm trysail as well. As Capt MacMillan of the schooner Bowdoin said in 1920 while explaining why he felt a schooner was the best rig for the arctic. “…You could rig it and change it easily and quickly. In the arctic there is either too much or too little wind….”. Think about trying to maintain steerage in frequent gales. I can’t image taking the trysails away after they were there for over 4 years of arctic/ Antarctic sailing. Yes, there was a new steam engine. Many in the Navy thought they were great and the future etc. I have read not surprisingly that many others as early as 1845 were unlikely convinced. Especially as they only had a small supply of coal. Not enough coal to allow sustained operation…I believe that is from Palin’s book. As to the bow sprits, I am not so sure I am making the right decision here and I may change my mind. Unfortunately, Betts did not consider doing a sail plan. His two drawings for the spar plan and standing rigging leave a lot of questions. So, as I have recorded, I changed from the kit design of one long sprit and one jib boom. I shortened both the sprit and the jib boom and added a long flying jib boom. I have no reason other than Betts drawings. However, without a sail plan I see no evidence of a third [ flying jib] foresail. The only reason for the flying jib boom seems to support the royal mast even though the artwork shows no such sail was set. Way over my paygrade to say or think any more for now unless someone produces a sail plan. To work 1-2. in these 2 photos we see the two trysails furled to the gaff and both a downhaul [vang] and the single blocked line for handling movement on deck. I suggest they may have added a block with multi part lines for easier leverage in handling items on deck. I may add one myself if there is room to do so after setting up for lowering masts. The three spars to be moved into storage, weigh between 350 and 500 pounds and tackle would have been necessary. Starting the Mizzen Mast: · I followed the work of earlier builders, bloggers and used cross trees and no upper royal mast. I read they were using all those British Admiralty standards and just followed as best as I could. The known expectation of frequent gale force winds makes those high sails less useful and dangerous. Also, the artwork showing them sailing away from Disko Island had no royals on any mast, so that layout makes sense. · I am not sure what one calls or the function of the flat vertical planks on either side of the banded lower masts. Please note they are not on the Betts mizzen. · Then after much thought, [and I may be dead wrong here] I chose to remove the composite rings and side planks. The mizzen was small enough [ similar to the big schooners we built here in Maine up to through 1930’s.} they needed to have hoops for the sail, so they would most likely have been a solid piece limited in diameter accordingly. Otherwise, there would have been a Spencer mast [ identical to the trysail masts] like larger barks and full ships. I unfortunately did not think this through early enough to include rings and chose not to disassemble the mizzen to add them. I needed to scrape and sand up the mizzen after removing the “side boards” and chose to leave it rough. Later, after say 1860 all the USA big schooner masts were dark brown due to aged oil or grease etc. added to the masts for smooth movement of the hoops. This mizzen could possibly not have been painted white. I stop here in deference to my lack of British knowledge. I left it roughed up and did not repaint it. · 3-4 here we see my first go I furled the spanker on the boom. This too would have been Yankee doings as the sail would have been lashed to the boom. I say looking through others’ work that this sail was loose footed. Therefore, I went ahead and redid the furling to the gaff. The second image shows the rough mizzen mast where hoops would surely rubbed off paint. Before completing the mizzen, I need to share a surprise as the acrylic sheets from China showed up in days, not weeks. Etsy was my source, and they sell them at the size I wanted in groups of 6. I chose 2 each of three colors. They are not textured, but I can deal with that down grade. 5-7 here we see three colors in the first view, a dark ocean blue , and very light and I hope icy blue and a mid-range sea blue. I chose the icy blue, and with a larger 16 by 24 size sheet I moved things around a bit. I then used the previous cut out as a template and got what I hope will work out …..icy toned water beginning to freeze. Back to the mizzen and some of my moves. 8-10 I respect the other builders of this model who are more familiar with British Navy standards etc. I have over the years collected a parallel library of America Non-Navy standards. My example is all the work by William Crothers. I would guess there are more similarities than differences but leave that discussion for the experts. In my build, the combined topping lift/lazy jacks, the life lines, the out haul, the boom tackle[ preventer] are all from my New England approach. I have to admit I just went ahead building them that way and then looked at other builds and said oh no..I am wrong again. These three views try to capture the spanker fitout, then the boom detail, then the upper mast. At this point only one block is there for the topsail. I am debating when to add the flag and how to soften it. New up the main Cheers- 41 replies
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HMS Terror by Jond - OcCre - 1:75
Jond replied to Jond's topic in - Kit build logs for subjects built from 1801 - 1850
11 back to the rigging let’s make our sails There are many U-tube series that help with learning the various processes here. I recommend ones goes there. I share my process more to encourage others to give it a try. I am no expert. I usually do full sailing models, So, what we see here is a bit of an experiment. I furles three sails on the Bowdoin and that is the extent of my experience in this process. 1 To make up the yard arms I chose to use copper wire and brass leads. I did not blacken it as that requires two processes and I often have residue that rubs off. That cannot happen with these delicate sails. I used paint, and it really gets covered up with the furling of the sail, so I don’t feel too guilty. 2 here when copying the design onto tracing paper one needs to sure the sail will nicely fit on the yard arm. I say this here a second time, because it really happens…. they seem to grow. Also, I read somewhere that if sails are to be furled, one should only make them about 2/3 their full size. 3 here markings on the silk span are cut out and ready to turn back the edges on one side. I stretch light line on three sides and heavier line where the sail is to be sewn to a spar. 4 -5 the strings are taped down and the edges turned back using diluted white glue. After drying the sail is flipped and thin strips applied to the back side [ reef line too.]. Pencil lines are on both sides. 6-7. here all the lines are attached, and the sail is ready to be attached to the yard arm. Finally, we brush water on both sides of the sail and lightly flake it back and forth up to the yard. Then tie loops and let is dry. 8-10. here is the same process for the two try sails. I had to make it up a bit as I have no info in either the kit or Betts book. The whole assembly is prepared. I tied off two rings before furling and left the other rings loose. As this boom would have been very active, I assumed the looseness of no binding rings made sense. They would drop the gaff , shake out the sail and re tie off the hoops when ready to resume sailing next year. Also, I saw little hope in not taring stuff if I tried to install them all then furl. There is no strength in wet silk span. I am now in mid stream for figuring the how to present the story of taking down top rigging, I will share that phase in parts All for now- 41 replies
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HMS Terror by Jond - OcCre - 1:75
Jond replied to Jond's topic in - Kit build logs for subjects built from 1801 - 1850
wow. thank you for your kind words. I sure hope the diorama comes close to your expectations. I got my new acrylic today in three different color selections, and i think is will work well. More later but here is a sneak preview. there still is so much to do that is pure modeling as well. cheers- 41 replies
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HMS Terror by Jond - OcCre - 1:75
Jond replied to Jond's topic in - Kit build logs for subjects built from 1801 - 1850
10 cont’d… the diorama is now sort of planned As I believe I have zeroed in on what I hope to do, I just want to finish recording how I got there. Much was in the previous 2 postings, but I want to feel I can set off on the next phase and the display concept design is complete. If one goes to the Getty Images website directly or indirectly by simply asking Google for HMS Terror images, one will find several wonderful, documented images of HMS Terror. Note some were colorized…Kind of nice. I believe from their notes, and a few other sites that have similar or even the same images, that these images for the most part come from the crew on the Hudson Bay adventure of 1836. I see no reason to suggest any different version of winter quarters of just 9 years later. Thus, either sailing away from Disko Island fully rigged, or pinched in open sea ice all battened down are the extremes have sufficient documents for one to follow. Looking at all these images, however reinforces my conclusion to try to be in between the extremes. I hope to show some of the sailing rigging being taken down for winter. So, let’s see the general shape of our stage. Views 14-18 show the progress to make a ‘stage’ including lay out for the cuts for the ice to allow us to be afloat but close to the ice closing in. I have a sheet of ½ inch white PVC left over from a project last summer [ building a router table]. It will be the base. The Styrofoam is left over from housework and now is just a mockup. It also let me experiment with the brand-new hot wire and probe cutting tool. The sheet in the photos is 1.5 inch thick, which would scale to be a flat slab, 9 feet thick. From what I saw last summer, multi-year ice floating is easily that thick and thicker. More important though, it is irregular. In the ‘cove’ at Beechey Island today, it is water in the summer and surely a regular flattish slab with encased small ice bergs in winter. Therefore any new in the cove ice before complete freeze up is surely less than what I have currently. Out near the transition between land ice and sea ice, there is surely all kinds of stuff going on. In every book I have read, up through say the 1920’s, these coves did not always clear out. My point is I a truely guessing about what would have been there. I will study a little more before committing to the current thickness for the base of prewinter ice they would have encountered. I may need to get a thinner sheet for that. Since my assumption is there was old ice near and at least partially in the cove, the surface will be more like the multi-year ice that today is only found offshore. The point to make at this stage as the HMS Terror will be afloat surrounded by ice. I have ordered several sheet of textured acrylic. I am a little nervous that in today’s market, it ships from China. I hope all works out. I also ordered several items from craft suppliers after watching several u-tube series on making ice. Finally, we get to the backdrop. 19. here is an image of my older Schooner Bowdoin diorama. For the Bowdoin diorama I found images from our local Historical society that showed the Schooner Bowdoin in the actual cove exactly when I was depicting her in the summer 1924. I then found various ice images online. I made sort of a crude collage to represent the backdrop and then added a spotlight to replicate early morning low angled light. For this diorama I thought after choosing Beechey Island that I should use images that I took there this summer. 20. This wide angle shot from high on the beach, above the grave area, shows the huge size of the ‘cove’ and the wrap around land that creates this area. One history buff’ on our tour that day, with the appropriate British accent commented…. only an admiralty big shot would choose this harbor to winter. One was protected but would have to wait until late into the next year to escape. More important, in this zone of the arctic, on the land side there was exactly nothing to eat. They did apparently shoot polar bears and thought roasted but rare meat for the officers was the way to go. Some scientists say that caused disease as more officers died then crew in that first period up to 1847. 21-22. this image and its cropped version are looking south as we were about to leave the cove. One reason this is a good candidate is it would be easy to find ice pictures to merge with similar lighting. 23 -25 The first view shows a similar view but at sunrise for the back drop I need to shape it ..see the second view. I need to add ice and the lighting may limit my choices. To use last image above that I took from just outside this area the same evening, I have older sea ice…. The other images that I took were all in the evening and would not make sense to combine due to their lighting. To pull this idea off, I need to learn a new skill. How to use photo shop to combine some images. fortunately, I have some time to learn it. I can always revert to cut and paste as well. So I feel I can close this phase of concept design for the diorama My first choice is to use sunrise in the cove, surrounded by growing ice. the other view of later afternoon is there if I struggle getting ice to look good. It will be assumed the fleet had made the decision to get ready to spend the winter here All for now.- 41 replies
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HMS Terror by Jond - OcCre - 1:75
Jond replied to Jond's topic in - Kit build logs for subjects built from 1801 - 1850
Thanks Keith. I appreciate your advice and perspective. I do not have near your experience as I jump in. I will share some of my references which are different than yours other than Betts. The main example is a Mr William Crothers produced the bibles of America rigging. There are others of course. I will share my perspective in a rigging update as I am at a midpoint to think it through. I do agree with you on the mizzen topgallant , but as it turns out I disagree on the gaffs. More on my reasons upcoming. Also on the subject of jib booms, there are two and all the artwork shows one staying in place. I agree the "flying Jib boom" would have to come in. I am now working on the logic of how and using what did these spars come down [in]. They had four years of canned food ,but I image not tonnes of spare line. I am approaching using logic of dual tasking lines to lower or raise these spars. For the FJB I am thinking through use of down hauls and jib halyards. the conflict is artwork showing jibs staying furled. [ then how do you use the halyard? ] much to think about..thank goodness it's winter😁 cheers- 41 replies
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HMS Terror by Jond - OcCre - 1:75
Jond replied to Jond's topic in - Kit build logs for subjects built from 1801 - 1850
thank you Keith I have collected images as well. I find the 1836 images available on Getty images of Terror frozen in ice in Hudson bay the best . My story will be a moment before being frozen in the ice with some but not all stuff removed. There is also the issue of several items that come up in Betts drawings. Unfortunately I started following the kit too much and have started but not finished rework. I will lay out three items I have to do again in my next posting. All three lower masts need changes. It seems that the drawings show two jib booms. The main jib boom seems to remain in place as it holds the head stays for the top mast. The flying jib boom sits on top of that boom and juts forward to take the top gallant stays. I have decided to rig those, so they are there at the moment, photo in next update. The question will be how much of them will come down. I wonder if they would they be derigging both masts at the same time? It also looks like I need to hang a small boat from the jib boom too. at least is has a tarp 😃 I definitely will have the main top mast lowered. So the immediate question is what do I do with its stays and shrouds. One thought will be to have them hanging from the topmast cap and secured. I made the two main topgallant stays yesterday and they are hanging at the moment. the other choice is not to make them at all. The fore topgallant is currently rigged but the shrouds are hanging loose. I am still wondering if I keep them hanging and have some crew securing them, or do I simply lash them, so the viewer sees one complete mast. Maybe I should reverse and keep the main up and bring down all the forward stuff. A unlikely choice, as it is all made. I say this much in this response to show how the balls are all in the air at the moment and my head is spinning.....it snowed again today too so outside for some fun. cheers- 41 replies
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Jond replied to Jond's topic in - Kit build logs for subjects built from 1801 - 1850
10 Continued the search for a diorama story I need to figure out what I want to show for a story so that I move forward and plan how to rig the model to that end. I woke up a few days ago thinking I’ve got it. It was fall 1845. Based on the written record that was found in a canister on King William Island, they had wintered in Beechey Island inlet. So, knowing the dangers of moving sea ice, they purposely entered the inlet as the ice around them would be locked by the land. My story will be …they are there and preparing the vessel and shore camps for winter. I also have my own photos …though summer. to try to use for the back of the diorama. here are four photos showing possibilities. 10.-11 they just sailed in and are still fully rigged. They could even have some sails set. Favor the bow on view and maybe have some small boats in the water. the flying jib boom based on the Bett drawings is temporarily inplace 12. The opposite. The flying jib boom and two top gallant masts are down and stored. In this version they are like fully ensconced in ice. 13. here we are…. somewhere in between. The main topmast is being lowered. Question on the state of the standing rigging. I believe they would have secured it above hanging but secured to avoid all the time to fully re rig come spring. I need more study there. In this view I removed the flying jib boom, but I am not sure I want to do that…again more thought and study. The problem to me is where to study this type of question. How to reduce high rigging weight to stabilize a vessel spending the winter ice bound. I have read many books on the explorations, and they contain very little information on that type of subject. Maybe there is more out there to be found. One of the members of our guild a retired boat builder with much experience said it is all about the weight. The masts were dead weight and had to come down. My source for study will be fun of course. Looking and looking some more for paintings of the time. My next month is going to be to figure that out, probably using guess work and seeing what looks good. Also, the hot wire cutter just showed up, so it is time to carve some ice. All for now- 41 replies
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Jond replied to Jond's topic in - Kit build logs for subjects built from 1801 - 1850
10 concept for the diorama This part of a build for me is the most fun. I want the completed effort to be a prop for telling a story. The first question is what story. I am not fully sure yet and what follows is some of the thought process. I find that laying it out and trying to discuss it helps my process to find the way. Some may say this is backwards, but I want to figure out the size of this endeavor. I already have two 7-foot models and that is out. If I just want to show the model sailing, we go say 2 widths by 1.5 lengths for starter. If fully rigged that means 28 inches by say 5 inch hull or 6 inch yard arm. That could mean 42 inches long 10-12 inches wide. Wow. Still a bit big. I am thinking about winter rig, no topgallant masts and no flying bridge boom. That knocks off 3 inches in length and four inches in height. So, let’s try some stuff 1-2. these photos show the winter rig on a cutting board with planks laid out for a potential size. The second photo adds small boats in the water / or on the ice which will be likely . the size is 32 wide by 16 inches deep for starting point. 3-4 here we start the fun. I have a bunch of Styrofoam from a tv hanging around to play with before it goes to the dump. I cut out the shape of the hull and stuck the vessel into the ice. This is interesting but not the real story of the 10 years of Antarctic and arctic sailing and wintering. We know they survived 1836 Hudson Bay and 1845-46 at Beechy island. They went into and out of the ice. Sea ice in Hudson Bay nearly ruined them. Bay ice at Beechey was fine. We know that to survive they removed the top gallant masts and the flying jib boom and built tents over the deck. These next photos follow a process. When I built my schooner Bowdoin diorama the story was coming out of the ice way up in Greenland in July 1924. I am thinking more of HMS Terror going into the ice in fall 1845. 5 I bought a cheap piece of acrylic that came 12 by 19 inches. It is a task, but I got it cut out, so she can sit at the rough water line. There is no texture in the acrylic, so I am not satisfied. I have seen how to fix that on U tube but what an ordeal. 6 I surround her [ almost] in the forming ice. The harbor at Beechey Island is huge. I was surprised by its size when visiting there last August, and the complete surrounding by land that would protect a winter ship or fleet from the moving sea ice. 7 by playing around with ice above and below the water we still get to see the hull. There will be no bottom at this scale so either ice or blue paint could fill that view. 8 this process solves the issue of not wanting to remove the rudder and prop😀 9 looking from above I think I am moving toward a story. The acrylic has no texture, and it was too small. I need to have more of an open lead that they are in. I will go back online. I am sure I will find costs have skyrocketed since I bought the 24-inch piece of textured acrylic I used for Bowdoin. But we all know there is little fiscal responsibility when it comes to modeling the story. Cheers- 41 replies
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Jond replied to Jond's topic in - Kit build logs for subjects built from 1801 - 1850
Thanks Keith we hit -3 F last week. walking house to car to grocery was an adventure. working on a model is a good excuse to stay inside. The more I think about all these people that went north..wow.- 41 replies
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HMS Terror by Jond - OcCre - 1:75
Jond replied to Jond's topic in - Kit build logs for subjects built from 1801 - 1850
9 Winter continues update 2 Thanks to those dropping in and the likes left behind. This update is a continuance of the previous one called winter work. We finally got a real cold snap, so a little more time was spent in the shop. As work continued on the progression of ratlines, I decided it was time to figure out my first yard. There has been much written about the large seams in the kit sails and the use of cloth in small scale. I learned how to play with silk span a few years back, so I am off in that direction. I used the kit sails/sail plans as templates. 05-07 These photos show the process I chose. I have a slide light pad that works great for tracing small sails. I lay plexi over it so no damage the the sof screen. I first traced the sail from the kit plan. I then scaled the seams for 24 inch so there were roughly three for every two in the kit. One can see I also chose remnant sheets of dark silkspan from previous builds so the sails will look really old and beat up. I recently have a bunch newly prepared for my schooner build and it just looked too new for this story. The second photo shows the silk span cut out, and the third with edges glued up over strings on each side. One lesson I learned the hard way on several previous attempts, is whatever we do, silk span sails seem to grow. That means if following just drawings, they will be too big for the model. Here too I had to cut back both ends so they would fit on the yard. 08 When it comes to supporting the yard I felt I wanted a yard crane of sorts. Since it is quite small and sort of hidden, I chose to make them up out of a brass sheet. Here I share the low-tech approach of drilling then Dremel grinding and filing to get the shape. 09. my first yard with my first attempt to furl that sail as it would have been in winter. I hope by the fourth one I can think more positively about it. getting the rest of the lines hooked up and tir=ed off will make it look much better. 10 just to show the lower masts and bowsprit standing rigging is now all in place including all those wonderful ratlines. Now I wonder how I will be able to get around them for many of the running rigging connections in the future. all for now- 41 replies
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HMS Terror by Jond - OcCre - 1:75
Jond replied to Jond's topic in - Kit build logs for subjects built from 1801 - 1850
09. winter work update 1 This following update will be one of several that simply follow along through the long phase of working on deck and in the rigging and beginning what may be the overall display. Let’s call it winter work. First up are a few changes I find from the kit that are needed to get closer to our new friend Matthew Betts 01 this image shows the page from the book showing the bow sprit and then the impact with the kit. I also recently saw a painting the verifies there were three separate elements. Now I believe I will have the vessel in ice with the “outer jib boom” and two top gallant masts lowered and stowed. As to the Bow sprit assembly, I must rework what is already built, I need to slide the inner jib boom back to match. It, and the bowsprit are both shortened a bit as well. 02. I got to go to out guild meeting and pose some of my thinking about the diorama with the group. The three little boats are the kit supplied metal hulls. 03 This image is looking the first buildup of a yard. On the right I have used lashed line as per the kit. On the left side I have used light weight annealed steel that I prefer for this type rigging. I find with some of my work that is now ten years old, the thread connections are not great. I think I prefer the steel and will decide in another week or so as I get ready to get the two lower yard ready to install. 04. just humor to share a photo full of the joy of ratlines. I have started on the little boats, and I find some of them are well above my pay grade. I hope to get some done so they can help me think about the display. cheers- 41 replies
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