themadchemist

ME TOO.

Just wondering how the relocation and new employment are going. I miss seeing and talking to you my friend. Hoping everything is well and the smoke is starting to clear for you all. I hope this old world is treating you right.

I just love these great ships with the multiple kits in one. Aggy and her 4 boats. I've really come to love the small vessels, including the fleet ships boats. I hate where some kits give you a plastic or metal long boats. That said...

Excellent work on the 4 boats mobbsie.

and since I always have questions - Just curious was the pinnace's green trim for a reason? I know the pinnace was decorated sometimes as the Captain saw fit, I was just curious if there was a historic reason behind the green as it doesn't seem common on the HMS vessels I've seen, which isn't alot.

I know what you mean on the display case also. Thats why I've decided to give my builds away and let them pay that part.

Keep up the good speedy work my friend, its excellent as always.

The pictures below illustrate what Kevin is talking about. You also need to spile the plank to get a straight line for the Bulwarks to line up to and also prevent crowding at the stem. I was assuming your still shaping in the above pictures. There is  plenty extrending at the stern to move the plank forward though before glue up. Shaping each plank is a slow and fun process. Think of each plank as an individual model in its self and before you know it. you'll be done. Garboard plank placement is also critical as to how far forward it extends. You can see my log for more planking details on the swift.

I love the shape of that deck, its compound curvature really makes it stylin'

Now comes the fun part. I love planking. Looks good.

Wow, she's a monster. Things are going to start getting interesting, Yippe.

I love the scale of this build, it makes me want one.

Also I was thinking, displaying her with the retractable keel fully out would really make for a much taller display also, which could be an issue.  

That's what converted me, was the organic feel of your red. To me I envision autumn leaves.

Your red tones down the polychromic carvings. Although the scultures have also been given a softened feeling which makes it really work. As you state, Harmonically. The resonance of the spectrum flows together, rather then create clashing boarders. Blurring the lines, without destroying them. Just as the great impressionist artists did in their works.

Understand, I use to hate the red. It just looked wrong to my eyes. Now, with your impressions, I not only like it, but prefer it to the blue. You seem to have fixed what didn't work in my eyes. Now I see reality where before it was cartoon-esk.

Its the equivalent of shouds with out of scale ratlines, in my opinion. The Details are what make a good build great. Personally I feel the best tip any new builder can get is -

  Slow down and feel your work, allow yourself to learn the slow processes and always let patience guide your decisions. Passion should always be your drive.

Of course we all bring different tool kits to this hobby, your prior paint detailing really shows through. I love seeing an artisan that has paid the price of time, when they are creating.

Hello Matti

I guess I have lurked long enough and it is time to step out of the shadows and make a comment.

First I must say, I have always loved the Wasa's lines. I never realy liked the red though. Maybe its from seeing her in the blue so many times, but I have to say your colour blending and choice on the shade of red has converted me.

The muted tones and colour blending of your work shows that you have lots of experience in mastering your abilities. Your mastery has created such a realistic portrayal of her, Great job! She's one beautiful build and your photography only helps to bring out the details of the colours and shading. I love the outdoor photos as they really show her true colours and beautiful detailing work.

I hope to get going again soon. as the weather cools I'm able to get back outside and do small bits of work, so that has kept me busy lately and away from building. The garage really needs cleaning though so I can have a place for the new belt/disc sander. I've also been spending lots of time researching rigging and gathering pieces for the upcoming build, I think the pinnace is next.

Seeing the Berlin with her masts up, makes me really want to get into that stage but I'm still finishing builting my serving machine. I found the correct washers yesterday so now I can have a 5/16" styrene inner tube using a 3/8" tube as the bearing surface. I'm using Andy's model as a muse for the construction of mine. Maybe I should take some pictures of it...of course to keep it PF, I think It will be named "On the Turning Away" server machine.

Hey Ferit

Its good to step back and take the ship in as a whole some times. Thanks for the many angled pictures of ALL of her, especially from above.

Very clean and tight work. Your Berlin is shaping into a magnificent lady.

I love those fancy pedestals also

Well I just made it through your complete log for the first time finally. Seems I keep getting part way through and losing my place...

I must say... What an Amazing and Facinating idea exchange and I love your trial by fire methodology Dr dafi.

On the guns... I have no clue.... but..... the guns would heat from within the barrel, toward the outer surface. Heat energy always transfers from hot to cold. The powder end would also heat faster then the barrel end as it would be more exposed to the reaction and for a longer time. I visualize the barrel bore becoming teardrop shaped as it heated, at least within the expansion rate of the cannons material at a given temp.

Thermally conductive substances such as metals usually transfer heat efficiently, unlike ...say... glass. Thats why a quick change in glass temp on one side causes breakage. The barrel overall, to my thinking at least, would expand radially from the center and more at the flint end.

In rocket fuel trials early on. there were early problems in uneven burn causing the launch to be throw off its center of mass causing wobble, which usually lead to mishaps (ie big BOOMS). On a cannon, the walls attempt to prevent this wobble, but as clearances expand the wobble would cause the recoil to be less symmetrical or straight back. A small shift of momentum to the left or right could increase the force on a single sides breeching rope, possibly to its breaking strength, hence a second rope picked up the slack. 

Symmetry of burn would also be critical. In an internal combustion engine the spark plug placement is key to maximizing efficency in torque and HP. Thats why Fords Boss 429 had a semi-hemispherical head and Mopars had a full Hemispherical head design. This forced the redesign of the plug placement in the valve cover center, but creates a more centered push on the piston top. In comparison the cannon has two issues... the flint fires on top (center of the back would be optimal) and the compression surface (ball) is not flat. If the burn reaches the top of the ball before the bottom, I can see a cannon recoiling with a downward thrust as the unsymmetrical burn would cause the ball to spin which could cause lift at the back wheels. Combined that with any side to side action and I'd want a preventer rope. To avoid these issues engines are build to be at tolerance when at temp, but this wouldn't work with cannon as the clearance would be to close on cold fightings.

Something I did notice, previously you had one of the breeching ropes wrapped araound the lower back of carraige, but not so in the most recent modification (I think the rings make sense, as some slack helps absorb recoil). That carriage wrap, to me, seems important as it would help force a more symetrical recoil

Of course this is all hypothesis and I could be completely mad.

Oh and in the entranceway doors. You forgot Pocket doors as an option   or possibly DeLorean-esk gull-wing doors.....

Wow, your trucking right along. She's looking good.

Adriaan admits, "going to have a peek at some pictures to see how they look in real"

I wondered how long the not looking at pictures and making her look like the Box would last, LOL. Thats OK though, personally I find I need inspiration in just about everything I do, but not always necessarily from the actual 1:1 ship. Its always amazing where ideas come from and how they can be adapted on very different builds. Also there will always be need in kits to fix areas on which the kit falls short. Kinda like that deck mounting situation, it needed fixing. Its hard to believe that deck just ended with no support. Nice fix.

I'm looking forward to seeing this one go together. She a unique vessel and should be an interesting journey.

instruction?? What are those?

Congratulations on hurdling the next obstacle Robbyn, Nicely done. She looks great

This will forever be remembered as the summer of knot tying, and tying and tying and ......

Hey Dr Per,

Thanks, although metallurgy is the weakest part of my chemistry. Metal analysis is a different story as that was what I did mostly in TA'ing quantitative analysis as a grad student, which is all old school wet chem. Lots of titrations and Oxidation/Reduction reactions.

Of course modern technology such a AAS and ICP/MS make old school methods obsolete. (BTW - AAS is atomic absorption spectroscopy and ICP is inductively coupled plasm mass spec)

My first gut instinct would be to say the pintles and gudgeons were of differing metal as yes brass is a mix of many possible metals, with each giving some wanted attribute. IIRC lead is used sometimes for softening brass (malleability and ductility), tin is also common (IIRC copper and tin make bronze). In my quant class I had about 100 differing steel sample and the students had to determine the % of Mn and Cr in their given sample.

Sam stated though that the metal was all K&S stock so that gut instinct probably isn't correct.

When I see uneven reaction such as this I usually think contamination. Its so easy to contaminate something, but the oil seemed to play a part also in the post blackening stage, which is strange (maybe coincidence).

Brass etching is a good example of oxidation/reduction (redox reactions) being used to remove metal rather then form a protective coating. Redox reactions using metals typically remove metal as it's an electronegativity cannibalisation so to speak.

for example the Ferric Chloride (FeCl₃) used in etching is a Fe⁺³ cation salt, which gains the copper metal electrons and the copper metal atom forms a copper ion which in turn then forms some salt with whatever anion (chloride Cl^- , perhaps), so

          Cu + Fe⁺³ --> Cu⁺² + Fe

Basically the cationic metal of the salt becomes metal and metal become a cationic ion - i.e. copper + iron chloride --> copper chloride + iron (although iron may not completely reduce to Fe but rather Fe⁺² , this can occur in multi-valence metals)

The Redox reactions that occur with anionic components typically form salt coatings rather then metal replacement. For example stainless steel is created when the Cr percent in the steel reaches a certain pecent. This allows a high enough Cr content in the surface of the steel to allow a fast forming Cr₂O₃ which prevent the iron from forming rust or iron oxide. Copper Oxide is the first stage of oxidation of copper with air (think brown penny) then a later slower reaction happens when copper carbonate forms (think statue of Liberty) from the CO₂ in the air. The carbonate is actually protective and stops further oxidation, just as in stainless steel.

Sams Sweat indicates a reaction is still going on, I just don't have a clue why. One crazy idea, was the piece rinsed in tap water after the acid bath? Was the Tap water well water or city water? I know Fe in water can play tricks in reactions, This is why Bourbon is made using iron free water, typically that has ran through limestone (think Jack Daniels ) That probably got the attention from those dozing off.

Seriosly though, Ive seen Tap water ruin many experiment and in my research I used distilled water that was then quadruple filtered with 4 different reverse osmosis stages. Distilling can leave behind organics. But water doesn't answer why one piece and not the other? but Sam stated that the blackening was removed from both (if I'm reading correctly) which could be a friction of wiping rather then the oil. Salt on the surface under the blackening could have also reacted with the oil (salt and oil don't mix typically). Just so much doesn't make sense.

I'd be interested in knowing what type of oil was used (although it shouldn't matter). Mainly was it natural vs synthetic (think tung oil vs Wipe on poly), Also how long was the cure time between blackening and oil and also how long after the oil application before the blackening came off and the sweat appeared? was the blackening stable with no rubbing off or flaking before oiling?

I just love troublesooting

Hey Sam

Boy oh boy, I always get the fun questions.

In a nut shell, I haven't got a clue, so I'll give the standard chemistry teacher answer, "Looks like metal contamination to me"

Seriously though, as an analytical chemist based in organic (pharma) seperations, my metallurgical skills aren't so great. Its something not covered to much in class and what little I know of metal chemistry is self taught and from my stint in quantitative analysis class.

So, what is it.

First I assume all metal is sourced from the same piece so we can assume the metal ratios are the same (Brass being a mix of copper and zinc basically, but depending on the brass other metal can be added for differing properties).

My first gut instint is to say it was a processing problem, but I don't understand how it effected one piece and not the other (this indicates contamination is most likely the problem, not the metal). Did the same reaction happen on the other side of the ship the same?

The strange reaction started when the oil was added and you state it caused the blackening to come off. In the picture it appears that neither the pintle or gudgeon are blackened anymore. Is this correct? How long was the blackened surface allowed to cure before oiling, although this shouldn't matter.

Blackening is a reaction that occurs with -2 anions typically (O^2- and S^-2, are most common). Natural aging occurs when the metal is exposed to the oxygen in the air naturally but most blackening reactions are a Sulfide reaction using what old school chem called Liver of sulphur. From my study of Liver of sulphur it isn't an exact science and can contain many differing salts to achieve the oxidation reaction. I call it oxidation because the process of oxidation to a chemist means it loses an electron (any anionic ion can oxidize, stuff on the right of the periodic table). Oxygen typically does this and is the most common oxidizer, but if you look at Sulfur (S) its right under O on the periodic table and so will have similar properties (as does Selenium...). So the blacken stuff is an oxidation of the copper in the brass and is supposed to be a stable coating, although this isn't the case here.

The sweat appears to be a reactant so it is still reacting with something. Does the sweat have a bluish or greenish colour (oxides and sulfides are typically black, where sulfates and chlorides typically have blue/green colourations)? What type of oil did you use BTW?

My gut instint still says contamination but it doesn't quite look right. It looks to me as though the black was removed from the pintle but remained on the gudgeon, then later peeled, which is giving it the mottled look with the sweat only appearing on the more brass looking spots.

Most brass is coated to prevent oxidation but annealing would burn off such a coating. Thats where many problems like this occur, where a coating is breached and then the oxidation occurs under the edge of a coating (think paint blisters on a car that rusts after a scratch in the paint). But this shouldn't have been an issue. Common sense is telling me the metal was contaminated between the cleaning and blackening process which caused the oxidation to not adhere. Were they ever touched between these steps and with what?

Although the oil seemed to be the catalysing agent.

The real problem here is the inconsistent reaction between the pintle and gudgeon. I hate to say this but "Not knowing I couldn't say with any degree of accuracy" which is chemical speak for "I don't have a clue". There are just so many variables. How long was there between blackening and oil?

Sorry I seem to have asked more questions then answered. My gut says contamination though. Most likely under the blackening, which the oil caused to become more reactive or become a faster reaction. I see nothing wrong with your procedure, is there any place in the steps where contamination could have happened, especailly between cleaning and blackening?

Good point Nigel, I was just wondering the same thing.

I wonder if the Berlin is also a 1:50, which is a common Corel size and a better metric ratio.

Wow, hard to believe they haven't fixed that.

With that correction she would be 1375mm long for a 1:40, which would be HUGE.

Hey Shawn

The older kit doesn't come with sails. IIRC the newer kit does. but I'm not sure if they are interchagable.

Popjack made sails for his build and I think he has patterns of some sort that I'm sure he'd share, of course that still leaves you making them. Thats the route I plan on using, although I'll need to change them a bit due to the transom height change.

Hey Ferit

I've been looking at the Corel WVH and every place I look its listed as a 1:40 scale, just as is the Berlin. I looked at Corel and the PDF states 1:40 scale. Could the person that told you it was 1:50 actually be wrong, were they a Corel representative.

She is a larger ship at 1:1, or so I'm thinking with more gun decks but even if she is a smaller scale the kit states 1100mm vs the Berlins 830mm length. Thats considerablely larger, so even if the scale is off a bit, the WVH would appear the larger.

I understand what your getting at with the invisible boundary which leads into the shoreless land, the key is control of obsession and understanding that only by our just competing with ourself, does one ever win. Its hard to look on some of the beautiful creations on MSW and not become overwhelmed by the level others can achieve. I don't think you must stand aside from perfectionism or stopping the desire for the impossible though, I think that is what helps us stretch ourselves and allows us to become better. The key is as you stated, knowing when to stand aside and how to mark your limits. Those are essential to learning from the masters rather than competing with them.

http://www.corel-srl.it/VASCELLISTORICI.html

http://www.corel-srl.it/pdf/wappen.pdf

If theres ever a builder that could build a 1:40 WVH scratch I think it would be you. The Berlin Proves That! 

I surely hope the "last" comment referred only to the possible end of the Brandenburg Navy, because I know there's a group of fans that want to see more of your "mad" building skills.

Well, from puzzles to 2 builds at once. Making up for lost time, Hum.

Glad to see you working on ships again

Wow, your making fast work of her. Guess that happens when you dont take pictures  You know your having fun when you forget pictures

Your last photo compared to the pic of Toka YT 149 shows that you got the shape dead on. Nice work!

Nice forward progress, and in the quality we all have come to expect.

Is the double rudder chain your addition or is it from the kit plans? I noticed you say "extra". Either way I like it. I have never seen chains draped like that before. I've seen draped in loops (like a W). where your design appears that it would be stronger being shaped like a Y.

Egg's'n'bacon, What a monster. Is the 6' the length, I imagine, if so what's her height going to be? Are you planning on building an Egg's'nbacon wing onto the house for display? So how many boats does she have?

Gosh I'm starting to sound like a kid asking too many questions, so I'll save some for later. Nice work

I think one of the key things about the Goth build which is also a concern for me with the SF as I prepare for it is the scale. The SF is 1:90 and the Goth is even worse at 1:100 scale. My whole life I've lived with better then 20/20 vision and I find the reduction in my vision makes me wary of the small stuff. I'm not too worried on the DSotM as its fairly basic in its rigging, thats one of the reasons I chose it before the more complex stuff. Plus its 1:50 scale. Actually rigging the wheel to the tiller is probably going to be one of the toughest parts.

I took a break this week and spent a few days making a silver ring out of a 1/2 dollar for Tam, she's been waiting a while for it so I figured it would be nice since we just celebrated 28 years. That's a fun project if you've never made one.

If pictures make Sjors happy he must have been ecstatic over the barrage of pic's you layed down. I think we all like pictures though, I know I do.

I thought she typically had 4, which make this 5 builds in 1  .

Your definitely right the fact that mounting the Pinnace would be easier pre-shouds. I can see where building the other 3 would give you a breather from rigging as the Conny has such complex rigging. Personally I'd need a break from rigging and the small boats would be a perfect appetizer.

Personally I think the upper shrouds look fine. To me they typically look more vertical and less cone shaped then the lowers anyway. There is really not alot of place extra to go out on the crowsnest either without going around, which I would think would give them a bowed out appearance. I really think they look odd to you because the yards and running rigging lines aren't there yet.

Wow, looking at your San Francisco forced me to pull my kit from the shelf. I keep forgetting just how small 1:90 scale is compared to the DSotM's 1:50.

Here's a question for you Robbyn, I'm planning to replace the wood for the decking and the kit provides the 0.6mm thick stuff for planking. Would switching to 1 mm or even 1.25 mm thick planks cause a problem in the spacing of things and cause a huge issue? My biggest worry is cannon/gunport positioning.