Gunports

[piperck]

Hello,

 

I am currently building a 20 year old kit of Corel La Toulonnaise. I am about to start the second planking. However, at some point I have to insert cannon ports. On this kit, there are no pre formed gunwales with ports already placed. The top deck gunwales are planked, no thin plywood, just planking. Do I cut thru both plank layers, or cut the ports now? I will use a template for the ports, but how do you suggest stabilizing the planking before I cut out the cannon ports? Perhaps an inner veneer of plywood between the frames? Thanks so much for any help.

[Jaager]

Since POB does not mimic original methods, you have some room to play. 

 

I would do it like this.  Before the real outer planking is applied, locate all of the gunports.

Get some hardwood stock that is about 4 inches thick in scale.  1:75, right?  So about 0.05 inches thick.

Use this to make a "picture frame" structure for each port.  So widen the port by 0.05"  top/ bottom/ each side.

As you look at the side, the frame will be 0.05" each side.  The depth will be determined by what is there.

Fit the lower and upper sills first, then slide in the side pieces (frames - or timbers scabbed to frames).

Make the framing flush with the first planking layer.

For the outside planking, look at the plans and see if the port lid  had a lip on the side ( a recess in the planking ).  Some vessels had this and some had the edge of the planking flush with the side port framing.  You can always plank flush and chisel in the lip later.

 

Inside -  is it that there is only 1 layer of planking?   If so, only cut the actual port opening there and butt the port framing against that layer.

[piperck]

Thanks for solving this problem for me, Jagger. I really appreciate it and will do as you suggested.

 

I have a general question that has probably been asked before. How true to the plans does one have to be? In building a model, is there wiggle room to do things in a way different than what is called for within the boundaries of historical accuracy? For example, on the Corel La Toulonnaise, the gunports on the plan are little round ports for the muzzle cut into a framed port with out hardware. I just thought the model would look better with an open port perhaps with hardware. Is this type of mod frowned upon? I know there are no rules. Just thought it would look better. Thanks again for the help. Still learnin but I just love this stuff.

[jbshan]

On your grand dad's Buick there are round vents on the front fenders.  On your hot rod there are louvered vents.  Do you feel those are interchangeable?

[piperck]

Interesting comparison, jbshan. For a minute, I thought you were flaming me! If i built a hot rod and decided that round vents on the front fenders worked better, I would go with it. If someone in the distant future built a model of my hot rod, I would hope they would have researched it and included the round vents, not the more apt louvered vents. However, if my hot rod got into an accident and was modified, someone might choose to make a model of that vehicle. If it were a green hotrod, and someone wanted to make their model a red one, that would probably be okay. Many ships get modified over time. The CW Morgan looks very different now than it did in 1962 and 1940 and beyond. Which one will your model be based on? Model plans are not always accurate. If research lends credence to a change in models appearance that sounds legit to me. And, more relevently, if one wanted to have gun ports open instead of closed as shown in the plans, yeah, thats interchangeable.

[Jaager]

You are your own shipwright, if you wish to mount a plasma pulse cannon on the deck, you are free to do it.  Anachronisms and additions without reasonable documentation tends to drive those with a historian tendency berserk.  No matter as long as you are honest about what your model really represents. It would not pass muster in a competition, most likely.

[jbshan]

Until recently I would have fainted if somebody modified their aircraft carrier model to include side paddle wheels, but now, I have to wonder at the ingenuity of the Bureau of Construction.

In the 1600s time frame upper deck ports were sometimes round, not much bigger than the muzzles, and with a wreath around them.  If you decide to change them to Trafalgar-style ports, you could also paint the ship purple and add a flux capacitor.

If you have information that the ports were at some time modified to a modern version, simply date your model to that time frame, but do all the changes indicated, not just those convenient, to be accurate.  Constitution has had many changes over the centuries, some making her practically unrecognizable, but I think it behooves us to do all the changes indicated for each version, as a historical record.  N. B.: they removed the flux capacitor in the 1927 re-working.

Edited November 7, 2015 by jbshan

[piperck]

Let me describe this issue a bit more, as it should be so it does not sound so blasphemous.The model armament are carronades. There is a round aperture and a wooden collar in the plans that I believe is appropriate for such armament.The gunport doors are horizontally placed.  The plans show the doors closed. I would like to have them open if possible.  The ship was launched in 1823. I was simply asking how far one can venture from what is called for in the plans, if historically accurate and keeping with what was done in that time period. Thanks for all your responses anyway.

[piperck]

Let me describe this issue a bit more, as it should be so it does not sound so blasphemous.The model armament are carronades. There is a round aperture and a wooden collar in the plans that I believe is appropriate for such armament.The gunport doors are horizontally placed.  The plans show the doors closed. I would like to have them open if possible.  The ship was launched in 1823. I was simply asking how far one can venture from what is called for in the plans, if historically accurate and keeping with what was done in that time period. Thanks for all your responses anyway.

[NMBROOK]

I see no reason why the ports cannot be shown open.The historical exactness of most kits,especially Italian ones can be dubious at the best of times.In the scratchbuild section is a model of LaCreole by Archjofo.This features Carronades and the ports you describe.His model is built to one of the monographs based on painstaking historical research,so it is safe to say this is an actual feature on French vessels.Here is one of the ports(hope Johann doesn't mind)

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

 

 

[jbshan]

That sort of port cover would be called 'half lids'.  Constitution has those. It would be entirely appropriate to show those open.  The hole is to allow the barrel to come through and make more room inboard.  I had pictured, from the original description, something like these, on the quarterdeck.

 

[piperck]

Thanks so much for the replies, and I truly appreciate the photos. I asked for edification and I received it.