Jib boom guy pendant run foul

[AON]

I've noticed many irregularities and contradictions in various books with regards to the rigging of the bow masts, so to untangle the mess in my head I am attempting to plan my jib boom/bowsprit rigging for down the road and am creating a map for me to follow when I get to this stage.

My many sources show rigging that doesn't seem to make sense and not installing sails on your build would mean they would likely not be noticed.

 

For example: This image clearly show two yards (Spritsail Yard and Spritsail Topsail Yard) with standing rigging running through the dolphin striker clearly making it impossible to set these sails.

 

After banging my head I was steered by a good friend to appreciate that in the year of my construction there was no dolphin striker!

 

Could someone help me please to understand how this next one works....

 

Looking at REES'S plate IV (rigging plate III) Figure 2 the Jib Boom Guy Pendant (items 49 and 50) run from the head of the jib boom down through a thimble stropped to the Spritsail Yard (furthest aft) and then to a block and tackle system.  The description on page 91 confirms this.

When I draw it out the pendant runs under the Spritsail Topsail Yard (furthest forward).  (location identified with arrows on the drawing)

This means that if there is a sail on the Spritsail Topsail Yard the Guy Pendant goes through it.

Commons sense dictates this is wrong.

 

My question: What am I misunderstanding?

Edited March 1, 2020 by AON

[druxey]

First question: are both sails ever set at the same time?

[popeye2sea]

I would think it more likely that the guy runs above the spritsail topsail yard.  Further, were these yards even used for sail?  I thought the transition had been made by then to jib sails.

 

Regards,

Edited March 1, 2020 by popeye2sea

[AON]

Druxey:

I do not know positively. I imagine these sails are best used when running, and if that is true then the aft sail being larger would make the forward smaller sail less effective BUT as the mast is angled at 30° this exposes almost 12 feet of the upper portion to catch wind so I would guess the answer is a very possible yes under light wind conditions.

 

The yards of these two square sails can be angled, I assume when the wind is off the stern quarter, or to assist turning the front of the ship around.

 

In any case the Guy does not run outside of the mast far enough to avoid the Spritsail Topsail and so would pass through where the sail would be, unless the Guy was removed, slackened off to allow the sail to set, or not used at all.  The second choice (slackened off) seems to make sense.  Is this the answer?

[AON]

Popeye:

From what I can find there was a period where all yards/sails were included in the rigging of the ship and with the addition of the Dolphin Striker and related rigging the Spritsail Topsail and it's yard were removed.  When the Dolphin Striker rigging was further improved the Spritsail and it's yard disappeared.

 

In that time period that they both existed the Guy must (in my mind) run under the forward yard or it cannot be hauled taut, and so would be useless.

Running over the forward yard would bite into the top of the yard, and that seems counterproductive to me.

 

The more I think about it, it seems plausible that the Guy was simple slackened off, as I mentioned in my response to Druxey.

This seems the simplest answer.

REES (and STEELS) couldn't be wrong.

 

Alan

Edited March 1, 2020 by AON

[druxey]

Sounds perfectly reasonable, Alan. Or the spritsail topsail yard slings are much looser so that the guys run above the yard.

Edited March 1, 2020 by druxey

[AON]

Thank you for the response Druxey

 

The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships, pg 227/228 clearly state the Guys run aft over both the Spritsail Topsail Yard and the Spritsail Yard.  The same book, pg 236 states the (aft) Spritsail Yard hangs about 2 feet beneath the Bowsprit.

 

I quickly modified my drawing and find I would need to drop the ST Yard about 34" to clear over top.

 

Pg 239 states the Spritsail Topsail Yard has no sling.  The weight is taken by a parrel.

 

It must be lowered to work, so the parrel trucks and yard lashing must accommodate this distance.

 

 

[druxey]

On the bright side, you've a way to go before rigging your model! In my experience, even with good visualization skills, there were still items that only made sense as rigging proceeded. Presumably the 'aha' moment will come on this question, as well as many others.

[AON]

Thank you Druxey.

Although I pride my visualization skills, I've learnt over 40 years of relying on it that you cannot imagineer everything.