Cutty Sark spanker, spencer and staysails rigging

[Bruma]

Hello everyone. 

I’m building the Cutty Sark:

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25323-cutty-sark-by-bruma-revell-196/page/7/

and I want to set almost all the sails, showing them under a moderate wind, something similar to this condition:

 

 

As you can see the spanker is set, but the  spencer is not.

And here I have the first question: how is the spencer sail furled? And in general, how is it rigged? It is not mentioned by Underhill and just lightly by Longridge, but I need more information.

The only source I was able to find is this picture:

 

 

 

But on the Campbell’s plans there is an indication for an out haul, meaning that the entire sail can be furled by sliding the head of the sail closer to the masts.  

 

And so we have the second question: are the spencer and spanker sails fitted with hanks also along the gaff or only along the mast? If so, there should be something similar to a jackstay on the lower end of the gaff, is that correct?

If the answer is no, how are they set to the gaff boom?

And lastly, the third one: let’s say I want to show the main royal staysail, the main topgalland staysail but not the main topmast staysail, are they set and furled, or they are removed from the respective stay and set only if needed? 

If they are furled, can you give me some advice on how to show them? It is clear when it comes to the jib, for instance, but not on this particular sail, at least to me.

Thank you all in advance!  

[Bruma]

Hello again. 

More than 70 views and no answer. 

Given the amount of knowledge present in this wonderful community, and the kindness shown answering to all my previous questions in this section, I start to fear that my question is not easily understandable, (due to my bad English).

If so, let me know, and I'll try to explain myself better! 

Thanks again! 

[DonSangria]

Regarding your third question:

 

If the sails aren't used regularly, i think they would have been set only if needed to reduce wear.

If they were used often they were furled like in the picture. I couldn't find a better picture sadly. Nevertheless I hope this helps.

[Bruma]

Thank you both for taking time to help me! 

 

 

10 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

Can I ask what exactly you mean  by a "spencer"

Sure! You are right: it is another gaff sail on the main mast. 
It is called "spencer" in Campbell's plans, that's why I have used this name. 
It is visible here in this portion of the sail plan:

 

 

10 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

An outhaul on a gaff would be to take the sail to the end of the spar NOT to furl it.

 

 

Yes, you are right and I understand that. I was mentioning the outhaul because if there is an outhaul that take the sail to the end of the spar, there should be the relative "inhaul" to take the sail closer to the mast. 
In my understanding, the furled sail should be all along the mast and not also along the gaff as depicted in my picture. 
The main problem is exactly that picture, I started to ask myself if I was right  seeing part of the sail furled along the gaff, and I don't expect that. 

 

 

9 hours ago, DonSangria said:

Nevertheless I hope this helps.

 

Sure, thank you! It is the firs time I see this kind of sail furled and pictures such as this one are exactly what I was looking for! If you have some other one plaese share them! 
Again, thank you both! 

 

[Jim Lad]

Sorry, somehow I missed your question on Monday.

 

As an interesting conundrum for you, two of the best known photos of 'Cutty Sark' during her working life show the spencer gaff on the main - these are the photos of her under sail at sea and the detail of her alongside at Circular Quay in Sydney.  Conversely, the other well known photo of her at anchor in Sydney harbour does show the spencer gaff, so take your pick!

 

There would certainly be a downhaul for the head of the spanker, but the practice on furling seems to have been to leave the head of the sail stretched on the gaff and simply furl it by brailing up - the brails being sufficient to control the sail unless in very heavy weather it was found necessary to use a few temporary lashings to secure it better.

 

Staysails were furled by simply hauling them down their respective stay to the mast and putting a lashing around them.

 

Hope this helps.

 

John

[Bruma]

Here I am again! 

Sorry for the delay, busy weeks at work.

Thank you both for the great info provided and for the useful pictures, they are what I  was looking for! 

 

On 4/28/2021 at 11:33 PM, Jim Lad said:

Sorry, somehow I missed your question on Monday.

No apologizes needed at all! 

As I said, I'm really grateful to all of you for your constant help and support!  

 

On 4/28/2021 at 11:33 PM, Jim Lad said:

There would certainly be a downhaul for the head of the spanker, but the practice on furling seems to have been to leave the head of the sail stretched on the gaff and simply furl it by brailing up - the brails being sufficient to control the sail unless in very heavy weather it was found necessary to use a few temporary lashings to secure it better.

That practice explains the discrepancy between the rigging and the actual pictures. I think I'll show my spencer in this fashion. Thank you again! 

 

Just for the sake of discussion, I have found another picture with the spanker furled in the opposite way:

 

In the end I think they just did what they want, depending on the captain's habits and sea/wind conditions. 

Edited May 4, 2021 by Bruma
Picture misplaced

[TIPP]

 

Cutty Sark’s Spencer sail

 

According to Captain Woodget, who was interviewed by Basil Lubbock during the writing of his book “Log of Cutty Sark”, the Spencer was never much used by him.  An exception was when the ship was running dead before a heavy following sea, with the headsails only drawing when she rolled or yawed,  the Spencer was sometimes set to ease the ship with the spanker brailed in.

 

It was generally kept bent and furled against its jackstay on the after side of the lower main mast.

 

The sail is set with an outhaul that runs through a block near the end of the spencer gaff, back to the main mast above the gaff, alongside the chain gaff lift, to a block, thence down to belay on its pin on the mast band.    The inhaul runs under the gaff and also back to the mast and down to its pin on the mast band.

 

The photograph shows the outhaul and inhaul shackled together beneath the gaff.

 

The gaff is controlled by vangs which belay to the bulwark pin rails on either side, beneath the boat skids.

 

The block and halyard at the peak of the gaff is a signal hoist, not related to the sail.

[Sailor1234567890]

I understand the apprentices hated the spencer because Capt Woodget wouldn't use it often but it still needed to be unfurled to dry, so it was seen as creating needless work by them. 

[Bruma]

Hello everyone. 

I'm back on this topic for two reasons: 

The most important one is that I did'n thank you for your last important answers!

I was totally convinced I did it, but in fact I did not. I'm really sorry about that and I hope that TIPP and Sailor can take my apologies even with such a big delay. Helping someone is not taken for granted, and it takes time and effort, so I'm really sorry guys. 

Here, at post #225:

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25323-cutty-sark-by-bruma-revell-196/page/8/

you can see what I was able to do thanks to your help and information! 

The second one is that I have some other questions...

I still have to rig the spencer gaff vang and sail sheets. 

Longridge sais: "the sheets were arranged, like the sheets of the headsail, with egg-shaped blocks to pass over the mizzen stay, with a tipping line to facilitate the operation".

How do you interpret that? One or two blocks? And, more important, where is supposed to start and end the line passing thought the block-blocks?

For the gaff, the only reference I was able to find is on Campbell's plan. He says "3" hemp Vang P&S and 5" block". But again, not mentioning the running part. The question is always the same:  where is supposed to start and end the line passing thought the blocks?

Any help will be greatly appreciated! 

Thank you! 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2022 by Bruma

[keelhauled]

Hi, 

I just came across this post.  Bruma, I know that it is too late for a response to help you, but it might others who are looking for the same answer.  the research I've done matches how you rigged the spencer in the stowed position.  I rigged mine in the same manner, brailed. 

 

nice model, 

Marc

[B Nisbet]

2 blocks on 2 pennants attached to the clew of the sail, with a sheet run through these one to each side of the ship. A tricing line, thinner rope, led forward to the jackstay or the mast to pull the block forward so it clears the mizzen stay when tacking the sail. That's how I'd interpret his words.