Gun ports in the waist

[allanyed]

I had previously been under the impression that there are typically no gun port lids to close off the ports in the waist.   Contemporary models and drawings of the late 17th century and sketches by Van De Velde show that this was not the case and there were lids over the ports in the waist area.   I am curious to know at what point in time did the inclusion of gun port lids in the waist as a general practice come to an end.  The latest contemporary models I can find with lids was 1703, and the earliest without lids I can find is 1715.  It seems this practice of having  lids over ports in the waist ended somewhere between, but was the change across the board for all British warships, was it by decree of the Admiralty, and when did that happen?   TIA

[Mark P]

Good Morning Allan;

 

I believe that the change occurred in the 1680s at the latest, but I will have to check on this, as I have no copy of a Navy Board order directing this to be done, unless it was part of an order dealing also with other things. 

 

The younger Van de Velde's well-known painting of Resolution in a gale shows her without waist lids, see below.

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

 

[allanyed]

Thanks Mark!

Apparently this took place over time as your find was the first I had seen without port lids in the 17th century.  I was mistaken on the model I referenced earlier from 1703.  On closer inspection, lids were not included in the waist area of this particular model.   But, the  contemporary model of  circa 1695 pictured below does have lids.   As has been discussed before on many of the MSW forums, some changes on these ships took place over years so perhaps this is one of them.

  

 

[Roger Pellett]

An interesting topic.  I have nothing to add directly to the question but I have wondered where these gunports were located close to the rail, how were they operated.  How were the lids opened and what held them open.  Where there was hull structure above the gunports, a rope pendent would have a sufficient angle to raise the lid. This would not be the case with ports just below the rail.

 

Roger

Edited May 17, 2021 by Roger Pellett

[Lieste]

44 minutes ago, Roger Pellett said:

An interesting topic.  I have nothing to add directly to the question but I have wondered where these gunports were located close to the rail, how were they operated.  How were the lids opened and what held them open.  Where there was hull structure above the gunports, a rope pendent would have a sufficient angle to raise the lid. This would not be the case with ports just below the rail.

 

Roger

Most of them appear to be two part side opening or two part lower hinged, upper removable portlids - at least for the ones where it is identifiable what is going on.

See for example the ports under the fo'clse on the above model (side hinges).