Transom drawing question

[Pirate adam]

I have a question for the more experienced plan drafters out there.

 

I am thinking of building a model of the HMS Crocodile of 1781 as a future build.  This ship was a Porcupine-class post ship and sister ship of the more famous HMS Pandora.  I have the beautiful draft of the ship from the NMM as well as the Pandora Anatomy of the Ship book.  I have been studying the draft and the Pandora book, as well as the tables in Steele's, and some of the other drafts online on the NMM site and Wikipedia.  One thing I can't seem to figure out is the configuration of the transoms.  Both Steele's and the ATS book indicate the ship should have 5 transoms.  No matter how I look at the draft, squint my eyes, etc. I only seem to see 4 transoms on any of the historic drafts as seen below.  Any thoughts? Am I missing something here?  

 

 

[allanyed]

In the scantlings in The Elements and Practice of Naval Architecture by Steel, Folio IV, it gives a total of four transoms with dimensions for a 24 gun ship.   These include the wing, deck and two filling transoms for a 24 gun ship so match up with the contemporary plans of Porcupine, Crocodile, Squirrel, Pelican, Syren, and others.   Where did you find Steel showing five transoms for a 24?   In the Steel scantlings that I have, the smallest ship with five transoms is a 38.   I would go with Steel scantlings and the contemporary plans rather than a modern publication.   I looked at 28's and the ones I studied all had two transoms between the wing and deck and one filling transom below the deck transom.  Larger ships, but not enough for an extra transom???

 

Allan

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by allanyed

[Pirate adam]

Thank you Allan!  That helps confirm I'm not just going crazy.  I think I have been double counting in the section about transoms in Steel (wing transom, filling transom, deck transom, transoms below the deck or filling transoms in number) as I add up the wing transom, deck transom, and filler dimensions.

 

Adam

[allanyed]

I just double checked and now I am confused.   I missed that Steel indicates that there is a filling transom between the wing and deck transom AND two filling transoms below the deck transom for a total of five.  Part of my own confusion is that he gives the space between the wing and filling transom below it as 2.5" but there is no space given between that filling transom and deck transom.  The Shipbuilder's Repository 1788 has a filling transom between the wing transom and deck transom but no indication of transoms below the deck transom.   The Establishments give scantlings for the filling transoms and space between them but no information as to how many filling transoms there are.   

 

And to add more confusion, the following is from a 28 gun ship the Aurora, 1776.  She is slightly larger than Porcupine and Crocodile

Porcupine

Length	114 ft 3 in (34.82 m) (overall) 94 ft 2 in (28.70 m) (keel)
Beam	32 ft 2+1⁄2 in (9.817 m)

 

Aurora

Length	120 ft 6 in (36.73 m) (overall) 99 ft 4 in (30.28 m) (keel)
Beam	33 ft 7 in (10.2 m)

 From the Aurora contract:

 

WING TRANSOM …   The Wing transom to be sided  11½  ins, & moulded at the ends 13 ins, in the Middle 20 ins  No Chocks to be admitted on the Aftside, & to be bolted to the Post with 2 bolts of 1¼  inch diameter & to be left 13 ins in the middle for the better room for the bolts. 

 

FILLING TRsm             To have two Transoms between the Wing & deck Transoms sided 10 ½ ins & to be left for air between the wing & filling & each other 4 ½ ins  & filling & deck planks 5” & to be to be bolted to the post with one bolt of one in diameter.  The Chocks on the Aft side, if any not to exceed 12 ins,     

 

DECK TRsm               The Deck Transom to be sided 11 ins & moulded a broad as may be for the better fastening of the plank of the Deck, bolted to the post with one bolt of one in diameter.       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

 

OTHER TRsm             To have one whole  Transom below the deck Transom free from shakes  to be sided 10 ins to lye 3” clear of the deck Transom & both this & the deck Transom kindly grown as not to require the Chocks of the Breech to be too large.   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Which ship is your drawing?    

 

Allan

 

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by allanyed

[druxey]

Part of any discrepancy is that Crocodile is from 1781 and Steel's tables were current some 20 years later. The Shipbuilder's Repository of 1788 does not, as Allan has mentioned, give any transoms below the deck transom, as per your draught. I'd definitely go with the 'as built' draught.

 

BTW, Crocodile is a lovely subject to model.

[Pirate adam]

Thank you druxey and Allan.  I am thrilled to get inputs from people with so much experience in this area.  Something that blows me away about this hobby is that there are even 3 people on earth that care enough about such an obscure subject to spend time thinking about it on a Saturday morning.  

 

I agree that I think this is almost a case of too many references available for one ship. I will go with the contemporary drawing which is consistent with the drawings available online and from the NMM for Crocodile as well as Pelican, Hyeana, and Eurydice. 

 

I am blown away by the clarity and beauty of the actual prints from the NMM.  I have both Crocodile and HMS Zebra 1777 as well as the Swan books (and the Euryalus books 😀), so I won't be running out of modeling subjects anytime soon.

 

Adam

 

 

[druxey]

And it's nice to connect with like-minded folk who like to research and explore!

[allanyed]

6 hours ago, Pirate adam said:

 I have both Crocodile and HMS Zebra 1777 as well as the Swan books (and the Euryalus books 😀),

Thank you very much Adam

Allan

Edited October 1, 2023 by allanyed

[druxey]

Likewise, Adam!