Viking Ship by DanBArt - Revell of Germany - 1/50 - PLASTIC

[DanBArt]

Hello All,

Yes I have another viking ship build going on here too, a vintage wooden kit.  I also have this plastic kit in progress.  I'm really a plastic guy...nearly all my modeling experience has been in styrene.  This one presents a unique challenge because it's a material I'm most familiar with but I'm tasked with making it look like an entirely different material!  This has been difficult so far, but I think I'm getting the hang of some techniques that might work.  I can't claim to have thought up the methods, only that this is my own attempt.

The Revell Germany kit has good...if a tad heavy...wood grain and texture molded into this kit.  The base brown color is useful in some circumstances but I do wish they had mixed up the molding color a bit.  I started experimenting on the main (only) deck with some Vallejo acrylics several years ago when I started the kit.  It got boxed up for a couple moves until I played around with some artists oil paints on it today.  I sanded the acrylic base (the color was a buff or tan of some sort) to reveal some of the darker wood grain below.  Using dabs of Ivory Black, Burnt Sienna, and Titanium White, along with some linseed oil, I was able to work some color and variation into the existing acrylic base.  I then just wiped it off to lighten and reveal some of the lighter graining below.  I was careful to get some good darks deep into the recesses molded into the deck as well.  Overall I'm pleased with the outcome thus far.  Thanks for looking.

 

 

[DanBArt]

Another small update on this Revell viking ship build.  I feel confident with my plans and technique for trying to simulate wood on the plastic, so I'm starting to think about the next construction phases of the model.

The kit mast is truly miserable.  Aside from being bent out of the box and barely able to hold it's shape against gravity, I shudder to think what the meager amount of rigging tension that will be imposed on it would do to it.  On top of that it is smooth and shiny, lacking any kind of texture or simulated wood grain.  Usually that simulated grain is over the top, an occurrence that is all-too prevalent on this particular kit, but then a major piece like the mast is left devoid of any character at all.  Odd.  

For a suitable replacement I only had to look at my junk brushes I use for weathering.  One was a good diameter, length, and shape, not to mention having beautiful and fine grain.  The cast-in rigging fitting at the top of the kit mast is nice, but nothing that I couldnt duplicate with some wire, aluminum tubing, and CA.  I needed to build a new top portion of the mast above the fitting, which I accomplished by turning a dowel of bamboo (I think, a cooking skewar of some sort) down in my drill press with a file and sandpaper.  The sanded portions of the mast will get some manner of stain to match the darker color of the mast, and the rigging fitting will likely be painted in some type of steel/rust combination.  

 

 

 

[Louie da fly]

You've done a very good job on the "woodening/weathering" of the deck. The only comment I might have is that it is perhaps a little too weathered. But that's probably being overly picky (but I'm a bit obsessed about this subject at the moment, as I'm trying to weather the decks of my own build without overdoing it).

 

Very wise replacing the mast with a wooden one. This is a fairly common thing plastic ship modellers (the ships are plastic, not the modellers) encounter, and is often solved the same way. And you've done a nice job of it - it looks much better than the original.

 

Steven

Edited January 6 by Louie da fly

[DanBArt]

On 1/5/2024 at 8:49 PM, Louie da fly said:

You've done a very good job on the "woodening/weathering" of the deck. The only comment I might have is that it is perhaps a little too weathered. But that's probably being overly picky (but I'm a bit obsessed about this subject at the moment, as I'm trying to weather the decks of my own build without overdoing it).

 

Very wise replacing the mast with a wooden one. This is a fairly common thing plastic ship modellers (the ships are plastic, not the modellers) encounter, and is often solved the same way. And you've done a nice job of it - it looks much better than the original.

 

Steven

Thank you, but no, I actually agree...it did become more weathered than I  wanted.  At this point I'm happy enough with the results to leave well enough alone.  I'm playing with matte clear on it that is lightening it up a little and taking a touch of the weathered feeling back a notch, but it's still too much.

The kit is looking good if I do say. I'm pleased with the meager progress, especially given the small amount of time I am able to put into it every week...perhaps a couple hours...and the fact that I haven't modeled in several years. I had begun to worry that I may be losing my dexterity and vision for it, but its coming back to me quicker than I'd hoped.
The update today concerns continued finishing experiments to make the plastic look as wood-like as I can. I think this model used the Oseberg ship as a rough inspiration, and I'm running with that. I like the darkened planks and lighter-hued keel of the Oseberg so I'm kind of using that as an inspiration for my model. When I started this kit several years ago I had applied a wash of Testors flat black enamel to one side of the ship with the intentions of picking out the wood grain details against the black undercoat. Today I finally got around to trying my technique and it worked well. I very lightly sanded...like a light single pass...with very fine sanding sticks across each hull plank and the result is pleasing to my eye. I applied the wash to the rest of the hull and interior surfaces with the intent of continuing this process. Shown in the photos are the bare kit plastic, then the black wash applied, and 2 photos showing the lightly sanded planking.
Now, I do agree with AndyA in that the grain effect is overdone...without a doubt, however I'm running with it for the simple fact that I don't see a real alternative. I feel that in the case of the hull, and the deck in this case, trying to turn the negative of exaggerated wood grain into a positive is my best course of action. If I remove the texture I'm left with smooth plastic and an effort to create my own wood color and texture using paint, which to me is an even less realistic course. I do agree that scale effect is very real, however I'm using some artistic license with this model. That said, I completely agree with regards to spars. The kit yard looks OK, but, again, is lacking in any texture or grain effect. It will look out of place on that wooden mast, so I'll have to make a yard. With that, I have concerns about achieving believable, let-alone accurate, taper. I don't own a lathe, so I'll figure something out.
I'm also trying to consider alternatives to the shield decals. They are interesting and add some needed color, but I feel like it might almost be too much. Would such bright and varied shields have really been displayed as Revell thinks they would have? Opinions please, along with any historical input anyone might have. Thanks!!

 

 

[Louie da fly]

Yes, the weathering's a bit much, but I feel that if you try too hard to fix it you'd probably make it worse. It's inherent in the kit itself. Consider it a learning experience for next time.

 

Yes, a wooden yard as well would be a very good idea. I don't use a lathe in tapering (the yards are usually too long and thin to work on in a lathe without bowing), I just do it by hand. Or you could use the poor man's lathe - a hand-held electric drill - and sandpaper.

 

I just checked out those Revell shields - Whoa! My eyes! Well, yes, Viking shield were probably as colourful as they could make them, but the reds would be ochre, as would the yellows. Blue was a sort of blue-grey as far as can be discovered. And yes, it's likely that everybody had a different design on his shield, though there's no proof that this was the case, the idea of everybody in a 'military unit' being distinguished by common shield designs wouldn't come in for several centuries yet. The most reliable site I've found for the patterns on Viking shields (and I've made quite a study of the subject) is https://www.scribd.com/document/171696247/The-Viking-shield-from-archaelogy . Peter's a friend of mine and he's passionate about getting historical details right.

 

Steven

Edited January 9 by Louie da fly

[DanBArt]

On 1/9/2024 at 12:33 AM, Louie da fly said:

Yes, the weathering's a bit much, but I feel that if you try too hard to fix it you'd probably make it worse. It's inherent in the kit itself. Consider it a learning experience for next time.

 

Yes, a wooden yard as well would be a very good idea. I don't use a lathe in tapering (the yards are usually too long and thin to work on in a lathe without bowing), I just do it by hand. Or you could use the poor man's lathe - a hand-held electric drill - and sandpaper.

 

I just checked out those Revell shields - Whoa! My eyes! Well, yes, Viking shield were probably as colourful as they could make them, but the reds would be ochre, as would the yellows. Blue was a sort of blue-grey as far as can be discovered. And yes, it's likely that everybody had a different design on his shield, though there's no proof that this was the case, the idea of everybody in a 'military unit' being distinguished by common shield designs wouldn't come in for several centuries yet. The most reliable site I've found for the patterns on Viking shields (and I've made quite a study of the subject) is https://www.scribd.com/document/171696247/The-Viking-shield-from-archaelogy . Peter's a friend of mine and he's passionate about getting historical details right.

 

Steven

Thank you for the input.  This kit is surely a learning experience,  despite being plastic.   Other ship models I've done were mostly painted and so didn't present the challenge of the bare wood.  I think it could be interesting to do another version of this model but sand most of the grain away and do it up as a mostly painted hull, assuming there is evidence that such a technique was employed by the northmen.   But right now it's serving to get my modeling juices going and dipping into ship modeling again with some wooden pieces here and there to get me ready for a full wood kit.

I'll try my hand at shaping the yard by hand.  This isn't the only place I've heard that suggestion.  My only "lathe" is that poor-man's version you mentioned.   I am beginning to see the utility of a very small plane for that bit of work. 

Yes,  on the shields I'm envisioning using maybe half the number the kit comes with and dispersing them a little farther apart and in a little more haphazardly.   As far as colors, I think I'll paint a few by hand with toned-down, earthier colors on a few, maybe half, and do the remainder in a natural wood finish with maybe some very small identification marks.

I also want to attempt a cloth sail for it.  I have some handkerchiefs on order.  That will be a learning experience for sure.  I've done a little sewing on my work clothes over the years but I'm no seamstress. 

[Louie da fly]

Sounds like a plan. How thick are these shields, by the way? The real ones were usually about 12mm at the centre and thinning out to 9mm at the edges. This equates to 0.24mm and 0.18mm at 1:50 scale and is pretty hard to achieve in a model, particularly in a plastic kit, and I'm not suggesting you try it. I made my own for my dromon and though they do look right for scale, they were a lot of hassle (see post #1065 at

 

 

Steven

[DanBArt]

Thank you for the links and information.   This is helpful.   The kit shields are thick...probably about 1.5-2mm.  Except for that they look decent,  in my opinion. I could have done with a bit more detail such as handles and their associated hardware.   I won't be using all of them.

I made a little more progress on this kit this past weekend. It's been a couple weeks since I've worked on it because we got hit with some -35 weather and I don't yet have heat in my shop.
I'm continuing on painting and weathering the hull and other miscellaneous parts. I hit the rudder plank with some oil paints after scrubbing and scratching it with the tip on my knife and I'm very pleased with how it looks. I'll be employing the same technique on th keel, oars, and other bits.  The hull will not remain in the glossy finish I'm showing here; its just a stage in the process. 
I also made good progress on the shields. I brushed them with a variance of Vallejo acrylics to simulate wood grains and colors in different stages of weathering. Once dry I hit them with a black enamel wash (Testors). I also started playing with painting my own designs on the shields in a muted and weathered pallet. The Revell decals are, frankly, obnoxious as hell. Please bear in mind they are no where near finished, as is any of the kit.
I got some handkerchiefs for making sails and bought a small handheld sewing machine. I'll try my hand at that soon and need to get some small dowels for the yard. Thanks for looking!

[Louie da fly]

Well, those shields are rather thick, but you're doing a good job with them. I agree about the decals - and very few of those designs have any historical basis. Were you planning on using them?

 

Steven

[DanBArt]

I don't think I'll be using any of the decals.  I'm trying to preserve the sheet in case someone needs it.  Historical basis, or lack thereof is another reason I don't want to use them.  That's not to say the looks or techniques i employ are going to produce 100% historically accurate results.   I don'treally believe such a pursuit is possible;  we only have the archeology we've thus far discovered to go on while much remains hidden.   To limit ourselves to only what we know to be verifiable and ignore the artistic license I believe our hobby can allow is missing the point.  Now if one is building for the sake of research and historical accuracy then the purpose and parameters change significantly.  In the case of ancient things like Viking ships there is only so much we can fully know, and while we know alot I believe there is still room in a hobby like this to let our imagination float a little and recreate things in a way we think they might have been, to immerse our creativity into the age we are trying to touch.  Please do not take my tone as argumentative; on the contrary,  I think we are having a great discussion here.  I'm merely stating my thoughts and feelings on the subjects we are discussing,  not trying to push the rightness or wrongness of any stance expressed.  The impersonal nature of the internet can sometimes portray intentions that don't exist.

Concerning the shield thickness I'm considering sanding the edges to taper  them a little,  and perhaps give the impression of a thinner shield?  I've used this technique on race car fender openings to give the impression of the very thin sheet metal the car body is made of.  I'm not sure if it would be worth the effort or not.

I'm in a similar conundrum with the oars.  I like the look of them displayed in the rowing position but worry about their fragility.   And I am planning to display the sail unfurled right now, and to me it makes sense to have to oars stowed if the ship is at full sail.  

Thank you again for your input and encouragement.   It helps alot to keep a person engaged and motivated! 

[Louie da fly]

We seem to be very much of the same opinion on this. There are so many 'holes' in our knowledge of early ships - for example, how did Vikings hoist the sail? Was there a sheave in the top of a Viking ship's mast to take the halyard? Or was there a block hanging from the top of the mast? No masts have been recovered, so we just don't know. And all the rigging on modern reconstructions is speculative - almost no traces of rigging survive and nobody really knows how the wooden rigging items that have survived worked.

 

I suppose I try to be as historically accurate as I possibly can, but in many cases we have to resort to guesswork, and be prepared to accept that the next archaeological discovery might prove our guesses wrong.

 

But ship modelling is a hobby, and whatever approach a person decides to take, whether trying for total accuracy (impossible anyway!) or injecting a little artistic licence, is very much their own concern and nobody else's. Either way, if they produce a good model, surely they've achieved what they set out to do.

 

Regarding shield thickness, your idea of sanding the edges sounds good, if you're prepared to do the work. Personally I think it would be worth it. It would look better and less clunky.

 

Oars displayed in the rowing position shouldn't be too fragile, depending where and how you store your finished model - though I'd recommend not adding them till right at the end, to avoid accidents during the build process. I've got a dromon model with 98 oars out and in use, but it is in a secure case so cats/kids etc can't get at it (see the link below) 

 

I think there is also a case to be made for both oars and sail - when the wind is too light to travel at any decent speed, I believe a skipper might ship the oars as well to hurry things up.

 

Steven