Naming of British Motor Torpedo Boats WW2

[Amanda G]

Good morning, 

 

I hope this is the right part of the forum to ask a couple of general history questions relating to ships/naming conventions during WW2. I'm an author who writes historical mysteries and I wanted to fact check a few things with experts  - these are embarrassingly noddy questions, so many apologies in advance.

 

1) I have a character who is aboard various British Motor Torpedo Boats moving up and down the Norwegian coast from 1940-42 and I wondered if anyone could tell me if these torpedo boats were ever given original names, or were always identified by MTG xxx (then later: MTB xxx)? How would these boats be referred to in dispatches?

 

2) Also: the naming of larger boats: cruisers, troop carriers etc. Were the names visible on any Allied/Axis vessels at all during WW2, particularly in the north Atlantic? If not, how were the vessels identified? For example (and this doesn't occur in the book!) - during the search for the Tirpitz, how did the Allies and/or Norwegian informers (who were often islanders without knowledge of the navy) know what they were looking for if the battleship was unmarked?

 

I don't want to waste anyone's time, and for that reason I'm hesitant to press 'submit', but I have searched for hours and for a layperson like me definitive answers are difficult to find (perhaps there aren't any definitive answers, which would be useful to clarify too!).

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Amanda

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 15 by Amanda G

[alross2]

In this time period, RN MTBs, MGBs, and most other Coastal Forces craft were officially referred to by designator and number, e.g., MTB 34.  Some may have had unofficial nicknames, but I'm not aware of any RN types.  US PTs, on the other hand, while also only referred to by their designator and number, e.g., PT34, commonly had nicknames.  These nicknames would often change with a new skipper, as well.

[Amanda G]

Thanks so much, alross, that tallies with what I found, interesting that US PTs commonly had nicknames. I might sneak a nickname used by RN crew perhaps, but it sounds like something like MTB 34 would be how the craft were referred to within documentation. 

 

 

[bruce d]

12 hours ago, alross2 said:

In this time period, RN MTBs, MGBs, and most other Coastal Forces craft were officially referred to by designator and number, e.g., MTB 34.  Some may have had unofficial nicknames, but I'm not aware of any RN types.  

Amanda, just a few words to shed a bit of light on the UK side of things.  I attended many UK Coastal Forces reunions, met and interviewed the veterans and they even generously loaned a few diaries: I never once heard an MTB, MGB or ML referred to by a nickname.  I was surprised by this because of the great affection many of these veterans had for their wartime craft.  On the other hand, be aware my interactions were all with Royal Navy and RNVR personnel so I can't speak for the Canadian, Norwegian, Polish and other nationalities that made up a large part of the Coastal Forces.

Just as an FYI for historical background, I don't have the statistic but a lot of the Coastal Forces officers were RNVR, not RN, and this frequently was relevant to the way command of operations was decided and 'need-to-know' information was shared. 

Also, if your character is by any chance landing or picking up people from occupied Norway be aware that this was specialised work and usually was carried out by the same crews (or at least mission commanders) repeatedly.  This both utilised experience and recent local knowledge, plus kept knowledge of the operations and personnel to a limited minimum number of people.  

Hope this helps, good luck.

 

Bruce 

Edited February 16 by bruce d
Spelling, senility

[Amanda G]

Hi Bruce, 

 

Thanks so much for this - I really appreciate it. The character will be collecting information from Norwegian resistance cells, and I've based him very loosely on Patrick Dalzel-Jobs, so I'm going to give him the same special duties and rank etc. PDJ was a total outlier really, but great to have his history to work from.

 

Am I imagining things or did I see somewhere on another topic you mentioned the destruction of many ship logs in the 50s? Can't find it now, but that comment brought me to Model Ship World.

 

I don't suppose you can shed light on my second question about how vessels were identified by the resistance (if they weren't visibly named?)?

 

Many thanks again, really great to know about the lack of nicknames, and I've taken that onboard (pardon the pun!).

 

All best wishes, Amanda

 

 

18 hours ago, bruce d said:

Amanda, just a few words to shed a bit of light on the UK side of things.  I attended many UK Coastal Forces reunions, met and interviewed the veterans and they even generously loaned a few diaries: I never once heard an MTB, MGB or ML referred to by a nickname.  I was surprised by this because of the great affection many of these veterans had for their wartime craft.  On the other hand, be aware my interactions were all with Royal Navy and RNVR personnel so I can't speak for the Canadian, Norwegian, Polish and other nationalities that made up a large part of the Coastal Forces.

Just as an FYI for historical background, I don't have the statistic but a lot of the Coastal Forces officers were RNVR, not RN, and this frequently was relevant to the way command of operations was decided and 'need-to-know' information was shared. 

Also, if your character is by any chance landing or picking up people from occupied Norway be aware that this was specialised work and usually was carried out by the same crews (or at least mission commanders) repeatedly.  This both utilised experience and recent local knowledge, plus kept knowledge of the operations and personnel to a limited minimum number of people.  

Hope this helps, good luck.

 

Bruce 

 

[bruce d]

Hello Amanda, glad to help. I probably did rant about the mass destruction of logs considered 'unimportant' by a misguided soul because he needed the space.  See? I'm ranting again.

 

Having a capital ship in a fjord was a big deal.  Prewar publicity and propaganda would have shared the names and pictures of every one of the major vessels and it would be no problem at all for local well informed people to tentatively identify one (the list of potential ships was small). There would be hundreds of people coming and going, work for local businesses, mouths to feed and omnipresent security measures such as flak and harbour patrols, all interacting with the locals to some degree.  The identity would be an open secret.  

 

PM me if you want. 

 

Bruce