Bill97 Posted Monday at 07:58 PM Author #271 Posted Monday at 07:58 PM Ian here is an additional picture of the crossjack from the Endeavour AOTS book and the number legend. It only shows a sling, lift, horses, stirrups, braces, and a truss. 🤷
Ian_Grant Posted Monday at 08:19 PM #272 Posted Monday at 08:19 PM Lower yards are not readily lowered, normally, except by jeers which your AOTS diagram does not show. As for lower lifts, they have to run forward of the shrouds,no choice (they can't run through them). When the lower yard is braced round, the windward end will be further forward and its lift goes nowhere near the shrouds; on the other hand the leeward yard end will be abaft the mast and they'd have to slacken that lift to prevent it twanging against the forward shroud. I expect the only time both lifts are nice and taut is at anchor when the yards are squared for appearances, or maybe when running before the wind. Hubac's Historian 1
Bill97 Posted Monday at 08:57 PM Author #273 Posted Monday at 08:57 PM (edited) Thanks Ian. My lifts do not run through the shrouds but twang (your great word) up against them. What I think I am going to do is put an eyebolt nearer the front of the top in the area where my tweezer is pointing and run the lift to it. The AOTS has the eyebolt under the top. Your opinion of this. Edited Monday at 08:58 PM by Bill97 Hubac's Historian 1
Bill97 Posted Monday at 10:33 PM Author #274 Posted Monday at 10:33 PM Ok Ian this what I ended up with. What do you think? Not tied down yet Mr Whippy and Hubac's Historian 2
Ian_Grant Posted Tuesday at 12:59 AM #275 Posted Tuesday at 12:59 AM Looks fine to me Bill. Blind leading the blind. Hubac's Historian 1
alpayed Posted Tuesday at 03:45 AM #276 Posted Tuesday at 03:45 AM Hi Guys. It was vary rare to have a sail bent to the crossjack yard so it was never raised or lowered. The crossjack yard did not carry Jeers. Only slings. It would appear that the Crossjack yard used a Jeer block for the slings. It simply took the weight of the yard. The Endeavour was right in the time of changes to the slings. AOTS book is correct for that time. Just after this period the sling was similar to the fore and main slings without the block. In this period there was a change in the lifts also. (Lees says 1805) Instead of having a span around the cap it was attached to eye bolts closer to the fore part of the cap. Endeavour probably had a span around the cap. Keep in mind that the weight of the yard was taken mostly by the sling. The lifts were used to trim either end of the yard up. When close hauled the end needing to be lifted (because it is being pulled downwards by the brace, weather leech and tack) and is forward and the lift pendent would clear the shrouds. The other end (touching the shroud) would be slack. Hope this helps. Regards Allan Hubac's Historian and Ian_Grant 2 Models finished: Too many to list. Current build. Danmark (kit bash)
Bill97 Posted Tuesday at 01:35 PM Author #277 Posted Tuesday at 01:35 PM Thanks Alan. I am reading through your comment a couple times for clarification and understanding. As you see in my comments the lifts were pressed tight against the first shroud with the crossjack squared. I moved the anchor point on the cap forward just a bit so the lifts barely miss touching the shrouds when taut. This anchor point is nearer where the top mast passes through the cap and less wood thickness but I guess since they really did not carry weight this would be OK. Allan I am also curious while I have your attention, the Endeavour AOTS do s not show lifts for the topgallant yards. This is correct? Ian we can both pick up some tips from Allan. Thanks both of you for your help. Hubac's Historian 1
alpayed Posted Wednesday at 02:24 AM #278 Posted Wednesday at 02:24 AM The word lift can be a bit misleading. The halyards did the lifting. The lifts were there to hold the yard level when sailing. one side would not usually have tension on it. The side with tension would normally be the side of the yard rotated forward. (close hauled) In this case it would then be clear of the shroud. the other side being slack. They were mainly to take the weight of the yard when lowered. Harland notes that the lee lift (the one pointing backwards) rubbed on the foremost shroud and caused chaffing. This is probably why a few years later the lifts were shifted to eye bolts on the fore part of the cap. Although Lees states after 1805 I think the practice of using eye bolts in the cap probably occurred on some ships long before it became common practice. On a ship like Endeavour there would not have been lifts on the topgallant yards. The sail was often bent to the yard on deck before sending aloft. Regards Allan Hubac's Historian 1 Models finished: Too many to list. Current build. Danmark (kit bash)
Bill97 Posted Wednesday at 01:04 PM Author #279 Posted Wednesday at 01:04 PM Thanks so much again Allan. I have never displayed one of my models this way but in cases where I have the sails unfurled I should have the yards rotated forward one side or the other, not squared? As I glance around my “ship yard” I see all my ships have the yards squared, regardless of sail display and the lifts on both sides taut. This is not correct. Moving forward I should do that differently on future builds. On my current build, the Endeavour, I have all the sails furled and the yards squared. Should all the lifts be somewhat slack or taut? Hubac's Historian 1
alpayed Posted Wednesday at 01:28 PM #280 Posted Wednesday at 01:28 PM That's an interesting question. I guess the purpose of the model is to display all of the details of the ship in question. Mission accomplished. To show actual function you would need to build a dioarma. They are an entirely different type of model. You have produced a model featuring all of the details of the Endeavour and done really good job of it. It's time to sit back and enjoy the feeling of achievement. Well done. Kind regards Allan. Hubac's Historian and Ian_Grant 2 Models finished: Too many to list. Current build. Danmark (kit bash)
Bill97 Posted Wednesday at 02:25 PM Author #281 Posted Wednesday at 02:25 PM Allan I do enjoy a diorama. Here is my Heller Soleil Royal in a diorama. But as I look at it now, for authentic I should have had the yards turned a bit. alpayed and Hubac's Historian 2
Bill97 Posted Wednesday at 06:45 PM Author #282 Posted Wednesday at 06:45 PM Slings, lifts, tyes, etc. installed at this point of the running rigging using a combination of OcCre instructions and the Endeavour AOTS. Thanks Ian and Allan for your advice. Ian_Grant, Mr Whippy and Hubac's Historian 3
Bill97 Posted 12 hours ago Author #283 Posted 12 hours ago Well, as is often the case in my builds, I go two steps forward and and then one step back. I did the fore and main yard lifts following the OcCre instructions (photo 1). Then looking through the AOTS for something else I discovered I had rigged them incorrectly (Photo 2). The OcCre instructions shows the lift coming back down to the end of the yard a second time and passing through the block that will be used for the sheets. The AOTS shows what I expect is the correct way. Removing the lifts and doing them correctly. Hubac's Historian, eatcrow2 and Mr Whippy 3
Bill97 Posted 10 hours ago Author #284 Posted 10 hours ago Marc you have any idea why the MSW site does this. I knew you didn’t react to my post 7 times in a 5 minute period 😀. This happens from time to time.
Ian_Grant Posted 10 hours ago #285 Posted 10 hours ago Marc's a speed reader; he read 7 of your posts in 7 minutes. 😏 Mr Whippy 1
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