How to make sails look 'full'

[SteamWake]

Hello everyone and greetings as this is my first post in these forums.

 

I am working on a plastic model ship (Revells 1:190 USS Constitution) and things are going fairly well and I am up to the rigging.

 

I don't really know what I am doing but am making progress.

 

My question is how to make the sails look as they are 'full' with the wind? They just sort of hang on the lines espically the foresails or 'jibs' they hang straight down with gravity. Is there any tricks to propping them outward as they would be under sail?

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

Tom

[realworkingsailor]

Try making the sheets out of very fine stiff wire. That should allow you to "prop open" the sails a bit

 

Andy

[SteamWake]

Yea I thought about that but the wire would not really look like 'sheets' is there any 'how to's' here about using fine wire for rigging?

 

BTW I browsed your build log and it looks awesome. I am especially impressed with the painting!

Edited October 13, 2013 by SteamWake

[realworkingsailor]

Steve, I'm pretty sure he's talking about the vacu-formed styrene sails you get with a plastic kit. But a good tip nonetheless.

 

If you're working at 1:196, just paint the wire a dark brown or black, you won't notice the difference unless you routinely have your guests inspect your models with a magnifying glass. The leeward sheets on a working sail should be fairly straight, with little to no sag, you'd be ok to make the windward counterparts with line as they would be slack.

 

Another alternative method you could try, heat a length of plastic sprue over a candle (gently, don't burn it), when it becomes soft, stretch the ends apart until the plastic reduces to a small enough diameter to simulate you size of rigging line.

 

And thanks for the compliments on my log and paintwork.

 

Andy

[SteamWake]

Well the sails are already 'shaped' (vacuum formed plastic) but they just hang and don't look natural. Here Ill post a pic or two...

 

 

They just hang there...

 

 

I used a brush handle to approximate what I want them to look like...

 

 

[realworkingsailor]

Ok.. I see one issue you may wish to correct.. both your head sails are on upside down.  The "bottom" in your pictures should be the side that's bent on to the stays.

 

But again, I'd go with 0.012" or 0.015" wire painted black. Drill a #80 hole on the pin rail where the sheet is supposed to go, insert one end of the wire in the hole, bend the wire to meet the sail at the angle you want, trim to length to allow a small overlap in the clue of the sail, and secure both ends with a bit of CA (crazy glue). You can then touch up the bit of wire overlapping the sail with matching paint to hide it.

 

As for your square sail, is your yard arm firmly (rigidly) attached to the mast? If so, I would glue the sail to it at the outward angle you most prefer., Otherwise use the wire method I just described.

 

Andy

[SteamWake]

LOL upside down.... sigh... if you look one of the headsails has holes on both top and bottom. I guess they both will now.

 

In hindsight I should have gotten two of these kits, I may still order another one and overcome some of the faults at my first attempt.

 

Yea I think for the mainsails I might be able to glue them into position thought about that.

 

Thanks for the tips!

[realworkingsailor]

LOL upside down.... sigh... if you look one of the headsails has holes on both top and bottom. I guess they both will now.

 

In hindsight I should have gotten two of these kits, I may still order another one and overcome some of the faults at my first attempt.

 

Yea I think for the mainsails I might be able to glue them into position thought about that.

 

Thanks for the tips!

Maybe next time, try for the 1:96 version. Same basic ship, but slightly larger and more detailed. More options to try your hand at small subtle improvements.

 

Don't worry about having everything perfect the first time.... I don't think anyone goes out and produces a masterpiece for their first ship. Good luck with finishing your build... And don't be afraid to post more photos... We're a bunch of photo addicts around here

 

Andy

[twintrow]

Steamwake

Since you ave the plastic sails in the shape you want, try cutting some fine line to size, soak in a 50/50 mixture of white glue and water, drape over the plastic sail to dry.  When removed should be near the full shape of the plastic ones.  To even enhance that shape, run thin wire inside the edges of the linen sail, shape it to the desired fullness.

good luck

Tom

[JPett]

Ahoy Steamwake

 

Blue Ensign has a great technic for making sales located here

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/152-le-superbe-by-blue-ensign-heller-plastic-built-as-le-praetorian-after-boudriot/?p=16686

 

 

You might even be able to use Toms suggestion to shape them

[tkay11]

Thanks for the link, J.Pett. I hadn't seen that posting before. Very useful.

 

Tony

[JerseyCity Frankie]

Since your in the mood to improve the sails you have, why not spend an extra hour or so and try making some fabric sails of your own? You can use the vac-u-form plastic sails you already have as templates and cut out new ones from any thin white cloth you have. "Hem" the edges of the sails with glue. If you want to go the deluxe rout, my favorite method gives you the billowing sails you want. You need some white fabric, some cornstarch from the supermarket, some cardboard and a knife. To make one sail here is what you do: using your existing plastic sail as a template, trace a hole on the cardboard --but make the hole you cut an inch bigger in all directions. Now boil two cups of water and put in five or six tablespoons of cornstarch. Turn off the heat and let it cool a bit and while that is happening, cut out a pice of fabric that is four or five inches bigger than the hole in the cardboard. Plop your fabric in the hot water/cornstarch and swish it around. Pull it out and drape the wet fabric into the hole in the cardboard so it droops through the hole a bit. Pin the edges of the fabric with push pins well back from the edge of the cardboard hole and set the piece of cardboard to dry horizontal with its four corners resting on something like soup cans or whatever overnight. After it dries the starch will have made the fabric rigid and you can remove the hardened fabric from the cardboard. Use your plastic sail as a template and cut the stiffened fabric with a scissors, this time the exact same size. The edges should not fray but if it is a problem you can run a bead of white glue along the edge and smear it in. If you want to get fancy you can make up a second pice of starched fabric at the same time you made the first but allow that one to dry flat. Use a ruler and an exacto knife to cut out VERY thin strips of fabric to form long thin ribbons. Glue these onto the dried cut out sail you made to form tableings ( along the outside edges of the sails)  and reef bands ( as indicated on a sail plan, these go horizontally across the body of a lot of sails). If you want to get EVEN MORE FANCY you can prepare the fabric before you starch it in a couple of ways that will give added realism: Draw thin light parallel lines in very light pencil every 20" or 24" scale inches onto both sides of the fabric. This will represent the individual cloths the actual sails were sen together from- be sure to check your sail plan to see you configure them in the right direction since it can vary from sail to sail. The other super simple thing to do is soak all your sail material ahead of time in a solution of coffee and water and let it dry, this stains the fabric and gives it a more realistic creamy appearance in contrast to the perfect stark whiteness you so often see.

Edited October 16, 2013 by JerseyCity Frankie

[SteamWake]

Well I might try some of the suggestions above but since I have a lot of the sails already tied on I'm going to continue down that path.

 

I will post some more pics soon but need to get a sharp pair of nail scissors. The one I am using now does not cut cleanly and I have a few knots unravel and come apart.

 

Ive been treating the knots with watered down white glue but they are still coming apart when trimmed closely. I think it may be the thread that came with the kit. Its some sort of synthetic, rayon maybe, It doesent hold knots well even when 'glued'.

[SteamWake]

Well I got the jibs hung the right way... LOL looks a little better!

 

 

[HIPEXEC]

With the cloth sails I put on my Virginia Pilot Boat 1805, I wet each sail and while using my wife's hair dryer on cool, I billowed each sail and smoothed them with a wet paint brush until they had the shape I wanted which was for the boat to be on a port tack. As the sails dried, I sprayed a light coat if my wife's hair spray on each sail. When they dried, they kept the shape. To add to the realism of the port tack, I shimmed the base to make the boat list slightly to starboard. It was so effective, a long time real sailor made a comment about it being on a port tack with correctly billowed sails. I use a picture of the Pilot Boat for my logo above left.,

Good luck!

[SteamWake]

Thanks, the pilot boat looks great!

 

I am surprised there were no comments about my orderly workbench!!

 

Oh yea catch the "Giant" miniatures in the background, that's another 'hobby' of mine painting miniatures...

 

Actually that's just where I store my 'stuff' workbench is on other side of the shack, but its not much more orderly

Edited October 19, 2013 by SteamWake

[Modeler12]

Just a couple days ago I made my first attempt at putting together a video clip and it just so happened that it was how I 'starched' the sails for my Connie. Have a look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLZRQf0eRco

 

There are not many details, but I have found that starch does not give the cloth that 'coated' look. Just like starched shirts, the material looks about the same but it becomes stiff. Thus far I have given my jib sails three coats and the topsails only one. Even with one you can tell the difference right away. I also found that I get a more realistic shape when the 'wind' comes from the side and from below a bit.

 

When I made the sails I enclosed a piece of wire in the foot (not the sheet). This helped shaping the sails to start with. The wire is completely hidden in the seam. I did use the ends of the wire to make a loop for attaching the sheets and clewlines. Here is another picture. I did the same with the jibs, but found it worked better for the square sails.

I should mention that the picture was taken before I attached the sails to the spars and before starching.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Modeler12

[twintrow]

Nice job on the video Jay.  And a good technique.  It says more to come at the end....when will that be ;o)

Oh one more thing, what kind of cloth are you using?

Tom

Edited October 19, 2013 by twintrow

[Modeler12]

Tom, until my model is finished, there will always be 'more to come . . .'

The starch method really requires several applications, so it is time consuming.

The cloth came from a fabric shop where I picked out the lightest cloth I could find. It had to be a close weave, but other than that I don't know the brand, etc. I found that it stitched well on my wife's sewing machine and I was able to make very narrow seams (even incorporate wire in the bottom and rope along the leech edges for the jibs. I also used a thread of about the same color and found that the stitching showed up enough for the seams and reef-knots. I just did not like the dark contrast other have used. Some place in my build log I go into details. I used this same cloth to make flags.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Modeler12

[SteamWake]

So here is what I ended up doing, mother is the necessity and all that

 

I got all the sails tied on and decided that gravity could help me instead of being my nemesis...

 

I hung the model from the stern by a piece of string and gently encouraged the sails into 'position'

 

 

 

I glued them with model cement, epoxy or even hot glue might work too.

 

 

 

 

I will let it hang like this overnight, let you know how it works out tomorrow!

 

 

ps; Sorry about the nasty ashtray and antique radios