AndyMech Posted March 9, 2014 Share #1 Posted March 9, 2014 I'm currently in progress building the main mast for the Mamoli USS Constitution cross section kit, and have a question. This may apply to a lot of ships and kits, so I'll post it here rather than my build log. The mast is made from 3 sections - pretty standard: the lower mast, top mast and upper mast/pole. What I don't understand is what keeps the top mast and the upper mast in place? For example, the top mast goes through the fighting top, between the trestle trees. Yet, in the plans, the lower mast diameter is 6mm and the trestle trees should be 6mm apart ,but the top mast is only 5mm in diameter. The bibbs that support the fighting top are also 6mm apart (as they are attached to the lower mast), so they line up with the trestle trees. The top mast fits between them as it goes through the fighting top, and then continues upward through the mast cap, but is too skinny to glue to the bibbs or the trestle trees. It doesn't seem that the mast cap would provide enough support for the entire top mast, which also supports the topgallant (upper mast/pole). I assume the mast cap is primarily for alignment of the mast - to keep it straight? Then what supports it against the weight of all the yards/sails/etc.? The Mamoli kit plans show nothing on how this is to be supported. I looked up the plans for the Syren, and it uses a "FIB" - a dowel of sorts that is drilled through the top mast and rests on the trestle trees. Should I install a FIB for my Constitution? Andy. Quote Current Build: Model Shipways Pride of Baltimore II 1:64Completed build: Mamoli USS Constitution cross-section FINISHED 1:93 (2013 - 2014)Completed build: Revell USS Constitution FINISHED - PLASTIC 1:96 (2011-2013) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ Posted March 9, 2014 Share #2 Posted March 9, 2014 Andy: It is called a "Fid". And, yes it should be there. Russ Quote T'aint a hobby if you hurry Completed projects Cross section model by Russ 1/48 scale Biloxi schooner model restoration 1/24 scale Biloxi oyster skiff 1/24 scale Biloxi schooner 1/48 scale POB Current project Biloxi lugger Captain Roy 1/48 scale POB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior ole salt Posted March 9, 2014 Share #3 Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) A fid which is a square wedge-shaped bar and is used as a support for top mast and top gallant masts .it is inserted in the lower portion of the mast and rests against the tressel trees. The fid is removable. This enables the sailors to low the top or topgallant masts in heavy weather. Sos Edited March 9, 2014 by Senior ole salt Quote New Bedford Whaleboat build. Kit by Model Shipways I've been making progress on my model and according to the instruction booklet I should be painting it, at least parts of it. Are acrylic's ok ? I did apply a sanding sealer. but I want to stain the untreated floor boards which are walnut. Thanks S.O.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMech Posted March 9, 2014 Author Share #4 Posted March 9, 2014 Russ, my apologies. I was concentrating so much in getting the terminology of the other mast pieces correct, I failed on the fid. :-) Anyway, sounds like a fid is a standard piece of the masting - so a followup question - which may not be answerable: How the heck did Mamoli intend that mast to stay up? They make no reference to a fid, and no reference at all as to how the mast is supposed to stay up. How do other kit builders (especially the Mamoli cross-section ones) build their masts? Thanks for the replies - I'll install a fid using a toothpick or something. Andy. Quote Current Build: Model Shipways Pride of Baltimore II 1:64Completed build: Mamoli USS Constitution cross-section FINISHED 1:93 (2013 - 2014)Completed build: Revell USS Constitution FINISHED - PLASTIC 1:96 (2011-2013) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ Posted March 9, 2014 Share #5 Posted March 9, 2014 Andy: I suspect they counted a glue joint of some kind. Or perhaps they simply did not think it was important for the model. Chances are, most modelers would just make it fit with a shim of something. Russ Quote T'aint a hobby if you hurry Completed projects Cross section model by Russ 1/48 scale Biloxi schooner model restoration 1/24 scale Biloxi oyster skiff 1/24 scale Biloxi schooner 1/48 scale POB Current project Biloxi lugger Captain Roy 1/48 scale POB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregs1234 Posted March 15, 2014 Share #6 Posted March 15, 2014 So as a follow up to the original question, did to bottom of the topmast rest on the crosstrees or did the fid rest on the crosstrees. If the fid rested on the crosstrees, was the bottom of the topmast just bare and between the crosstrees or did it have some other support? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Lad Posted March 15, 2014 Share #7 Posted March 15, 2014 The fid rests on the trestle trees taking the full weight of the mast. The lower end of the topmast is bare and has no other fittings. If you want to add some detail, you could include the thwartships sheave in the topmast just above the trestle trees which takes the top rope - the rope used to lower the topmast. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregs1234 Posted March 16, 2014 Share #8 Posted March 16, 2014 Thanks John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Griffith Posted March 18, 2014 Share #9 Posted March 18, 2014 Hi Andy, expanding the answer somewhat, the fid was made of iron because it had to support a very large amount of weight. You can use wood and paint it black. Duff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelpsutton2 Posted March 18, 2014 Share #10 Posted March 18, 2014 Might I suggest that you look in Lee's Masting & Rigging English Ships of War. There are a couple of easy to understand drawings . The fid went though the bottom or heel of the topmast from side to side not fore & aft the two ends of the fid protruded far enough on each side to rest on an iron plate mounted on top of the tressletrees. The height of the hole for the fid above the heel of the mast varied a little over time but a figure of 2-3 times the diameter of the mast would get you in the ball park. The manufacturer of your Constitution kit may consider the fid to be too small to depict at that scale This post on our site may help: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/332-hms-pegasus-by-blue-ensign-victory-models-enhancing-the-kit-a-build-log-of-sorts/page-12 Quote Drown you may, but go you must and your reward shall be a man's pay or a hero's grave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMech Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share #11 Posted March 18, 2014 Thanks for all the responses - I haven't yet assembled the full mast, so I've time to think about what I want to do here. I'm leaning to putting in a fid, black, and having it rest on the crosstrees. Andy. Quote Current Build: Model Shipways Pride of Baltimore II 1:64Completed build: Mamoli USS Constitution cross-section FINISHED 1:93 (2013 - 2014)Completed build: Revell USS Constitution FINISHED - PLASTIC 1:96 (2011-2013) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Al Posted March 18, 2014 Share #12 Posted March 18, 2014 Very interesting post and very timely. Both Mike Dowling and I are working on Bounty and have been discussing the lack of instructions for rigging and masting. Based on my kits instructions so far, it would not surprise me if Mamoli simply left something out. I've come across that with my Artesiana latina instructions a couple times already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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