HMS Victory by robipod - Caldercraft - 1805 version - first build

[robipod]

Am thinking it might be appropriate for me to tell you that I responded privately to John Maguire. It was a long one. Basically said use flickering lights all the way throughout and really take a look at Kooyu's and Pompei's builds. They know how to do lights. Unfortunately Pompei has not re-posted his build from MSW1 but Kooyu is re-posting. It is really worth the while to figure out how to add lighting. I know, I know - lighting wasn't the thing back in '05 but its a few years since then. Have tried to get  some video of how this is going to look for John and did a new 1 minute video. Figured I should post a link to the video for anyone who wants to look at the lights to date. I have not been able to capture how it really looks. 

Working on gun port linings today. Didn't go to the mountains. 

Edited May 18, 2013 by robipod

[Fortres]

Rob, I underline - I do not argue with your opinion, but remain on it.
Those photos that I showed yesterday really behave to the different periods.It is possible that some of them - to the that period that on your photos.
I agree and with that blackly-white images could be painted.
Only, what I very doubt in - that in opening of port we see the building forests.On my opinion, it is a grate nevertheless.

[robipod]

Konstantin, it is scaffolding. I was there and took the pictures. (provided we are commenting on the same thing) Now I didn't take the pictures in 1922 like the pictures you posted (the b&w) rather in '83 or '84 on one of my trips to England. The colour picture of the outside of Victory was taken a few hours after I took the pictures inside Victory. That's why I wanted you to see all the scaffolding. The scaffolding and the plastic tarp show me that the gun port that I photographed that day is somewhere to the right of the gangplank into the lower gun deck. This has gotten way off my build of victory. I do have an interesting problem that haven't figured out what to do. 

I bought a piece of victory and have it here. It is one hard piece of teak from the orlop deck. I took it to a friend and we sliced three pieces about 4 mm thick. I want to incorporate some of them into the build but have never figured out what to do with them. any thoughts/suggestions.

here is the piece that I have left along with another piece of Victory. As mentioned cut three pieces about 15 cm x 2 cm x 4 mm from this block to incorporate into my build. The teak is as tough as steel. so can't do too much with it.

 

Edited April 16, 2013 by robipod

[Kevin]

Konstantin, it is scaffolding. I was there and took the pictures. (provided we are commenting on the same thing) Now I didn't take the pictures in 1922 like the pictures you posted (the b&w) rather in '83 or '84 on one of my trips to England. The colour picture of the outside of Victory was taken a few hours after I took the pictures inside Victory. That's why I wanted you to see all the scaffolding. The scaffolding and the plastic tarp show me that the gun port that I photographed that day is somewhere to the right of the gangplank into the lower gun deck. This has gotten way off my build of victory. I do have an interesting problem that haven't figured out what to do. 

I bought a piece of victory and have it here. It is one hard piece of teak from the orlop deck. I took it to a friend and we sliced three pieces about 4 mm thick. I want to incorporate some of them into the build but have never figured out what to do with them. any thoughts/suggestions.

here is the piece that I have left along with another piece of Victory. As mentioned cut three pieces about 15 cm x 2 cm x 4 mm from this block to incorporate into my build. The teak is as tough as steel. so can't do too much with it.

 

my pieces of Victory.jpg

use it as the name plate, for the finished build

Edited April 16, 2013 by Kevin

[robipod]

Yes, I like the idea of using the block above for a nameplate Kevin. Am going to do it. However, look what I did tonight. At times I get too impatient. As the three strips were cut I decided what the heck and tried to cut thin (1-2 mm) strips from one of the cut pieces. Figured if I had to replace the blade so what. I bought a Proxxon table saw for this project. (The really really small one). Well, here is what happened. I got them. what do you think of using these to plank the beak-head  If I go buy another blade tomorrow I could cut a bunch of strips and use them else where on the model. I really didn't think I would be able to cut them. I wonder if sitting for two years in the drawer allowed the wood to expand a bit. We could hardly get the cut on a big table saw from the main block of wood originally. The teak is a lot darker than the rest of the decks but it is the 'from a Victory refit'. [thanks for the info Konstantin]

Edited April 17, 2013 by robipod

[Fortres]

Maybe, I will let down you, Overalls, but the "real ship" was built in wood - oak.
Teak used for a reconstruction 1960...in 1970 began to use iroko.
Here that writes Ian G Brennan on
http://www.contemporarysculptor.com/hms-victory.htm


(Ian G Brennan - Sculptor to the Most Noble Order of the Garter and Most Honourable Order of the Bath; has been a professional artist, woodcarver and sculptor for thirty years...Ian has also been commissioned to produce large bas-relief carvings for Lord Nelson's 18th century Flagship HMS Victory...)



"...Since the 1930's a continual battle has been fought with the death watch beetle and renewal of the decaying oak timbers. As the Victory was mostly built of oak; these original timbers which were continually getting wet and then drying out were by then badly decayed. These decayed oak timbers were systematically having to be replaced as the scarce and expensive oak was found to be no longer suitable. Also to try and produce new oak timbers of the huge size often required would again mean having to use the inner heartwood part of the oak tree, which, it is now known to decay most readily in such conditions.

It was found that to preserve the Victory for many generations to come, timbers had urgently to be found that were both resistant to beetle attack and fungus to prevent this continual recurring problem. In the 1960s teak began to be used in the restoration work which in the 1970's was supplanted by iroko. Iroco which is a tropical hardwood is not only resistant to beetle attack and funguses but just as importantly is produced from sustainable sources from forests which are immediately replanted after felling. Teak is now used for the supporting frames (futtocks) and planking; iroko is used for the beams and mahogany used for carving the Entrance Port. These new timbers, modern insecticides and the now increased ventilation within the ships hull has now virtually eradicated these problems..."

[Fortres]

Rob, do you assert that these photos are done by you from the real ship at one and the same time ?
Did I get it right ?

 

 

[robipod]

darn - was trying to be helpful Konstantin.. is this one better --- 

 

 

yes I took the pictures   you gotta like google... 

 

так, я взяв фотографії

tak, ya vzyav fotohrafiï

 

Edited April 18, 2013 by robipod

[Fortres]

You, maybe, I was understood not correctly.
I am Ukrainian.".HOHOL".
My principle - I will disbelieve, while in hands I will not hold for some time.

Your message in Russian language - bully for you !

[robipod]

bye to the walnut second hull - it was nice while it lasted... on to copper... ... going to let the primer dry for a few days...

sure changes the look of it.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2013 by robipod

[robipod]

Figured I should go back and read the manual. Glad I did. Suggests drilling the holes for the dummy cannons before copper plating.  I couldn't figure out anything other than trying this. How did you line up your drilling?

[John Maguire]

Rob,

 

I am caught up on your excellent progress. I have so much to assimilate. Thank you for your input. Back to my own work now!

 

John

[robipod]

Here is another post of Victory images.  Have no idea the exact location of the B&W photo. I really messed up on the flash that day and burned out a lot of the image. Was able to do a bit of manipulation on the image to get some contrast etc. Took the colour image in the hold.  I cannot figure out the date on this piece of timber. Am certain it is 1815 or before. Could this be an image of once section of the keel laid down in 1759? Oh, you will have to click on the image to make it bigger.

 

 

Have continued with the dummy gun barrels but not done too much this week.

[GTM]

Hej Rob,

I just found your log, and i certainly will follow your build with interest.

Very Inspiring, a good source for inspiration !!

 

It looks like your way to drilling the holes for the dummy cannons works well, but I found another trick which worked fine for me.

I found an screw which fitted (after minor modification) in the gun ports, and drilled an hole through the middle of it and used this as drill jig.

See the attached pictures for more details..

 

 

Edited April 27, 2013 by GTM

[robipod]

Yes, I see Theo. That is a novel approach. Thank you for the idea. Do you have a background where you place the cannon? Is it  a black background that you drill into? As I've got a gun carriage in the background I am finding that each hole must be lined up individually depending upon where I put the gun carriage image. Has made it a bit challenging as I cannot look directly into the gun port to see exactly where the hole will be drilled. Am always looking around the drill.

I have been very curious how the back imaging is going to work once the dummy cannons were mounted. Here is the result: I wonder how much it will change once they are blackened?

Edited April 28, 2013 by robipod

[edmay]

Good day to you,your modeling and computer skills are excellent, a truly novel idea , very clever ,will follow with interest .Edwin

[robipod]

Thanks for the kind words. There are better players on this site but appreciate you following along. I see we are 'neighbours'. Well, kinda... At least you get a real ocean to launch your ship. We've got two 30 meter wide rivers in Calgary. lol  

[robipod]

Still working on dummy cannon holes. Here is how it is looking on both lower gun decks. Best part of the background is that for the most part, it is semi-dark inside. Next effect to look at will be 'in the dark'. I wonder if the cannons will make a difference and split the light up too much. Guess will see late tonight. 

[robipod]

After drilling the holes for the dummy cannons I pulled them out and I've switched back to lighting. Was finally able to get some video showing some of the lighting on the lower gun deck. Have come to some conclusions on the lighting and the placement of where the beam from the LED hits the inside image and reflects those colours.

 

The camera picks up subtle colour changes in the gun ports and seems to magnify them. Looks like I've got a multi-coloured light show. To the live eye, (opposed to a dead eye)  it does not seem to be as pronounced and actually blends. I see what is happening. Depending upon the point of the background image that the LED is shining upon, the colour of that spot is what is magnified by the camera colour perception. My conclusion is that it does matter where the placement of the LED beam of light will be illuminating the gun ports. I didn't think it would matter. I can't change it now but anyone putting LED's into the gun ports should try to allow for that angle of reflection. (Hope this makes sense)

 

Edited May 8, 2013 by robipod

[robipod]

Fellow Victory builders I have a question. This one related to the foc'sle, quarter decks. On the picture below I've put a grouping of images on the difference between decks before and after the crew holystones them. You can see the sailors on the USCGC Eagle using the holystone on the deck. It is my understanding that back in 1805 Victory/ other British warships used holystone on the decks. Do you see the difference on the USS Constitution decks before and after holystone?

Here is the question. Should the quarter deck(s)/foc'sle look bright and similar to those on the Constitution and Eagle or would you leave them the uncleaned look of the grey. I know some have "greyed" their decks. But is it more accurate to have them this other lighter colour. Would the 'worn' deck look similar to the left side of the Constitution image? Was anyone around in 1805? LOL... 

I 'greyed' my middle gun deck but left the upper gun deck a brighter 'buffed'. 

Would appreciate your comments. (Am thinking way ahead here. For that matter not even close to starting but it's been on my mind this week. We finally got spring in Calgary today! 27 ©..... we had snow last week... LOL (still lots of snow in the mountains!)

 

[Erik Nyren]

Hello

 

Im about to put in my LEDs and have chosen a different approach looking for a more indirect source of illumination. This might cause a shadow effect on the false cannon supports which is hard to forsee. Pics will be added to my log later this week.

The deck question is interesting. What occurres to me is that the differense in color can be enhanced by the varying light-conditions and use of camera filters when the pictures are taken. That would mage it hard to tell.Especially if we boil it down to what the decks looked like in 1805. I fear it will come down to personal preferences. I my self will not weather the decks because I want the decks to look as fresh as the paintjob but thats just me.

 

Regards

Erik

[Fortres]

Firstly, there is not a fact, that the decks of Victory and Constitution are made out of the same wood.

Secondly, from that I read about modern Victory - there a command consists of tour guides and stewards, nobody scrubs a deck a pumice, and cannons are transferable layouts from a tree, that dye periodically.

To give a ship a "battle" kind it is necessary to study the photo of operating ships

[robipod]

Erik. I looked at your build. Yes, I see where you are headed. If not too late would suggest you double the lights... have each on a different circuit so you can have a backup. At least I would do something like that now. 

Konstantin - thank you. Yes, you are right. The decks of the two ships may very well be have been different wood. Am thinking it comes down to what Erik suggests that it is personal preference. 

Progress has been slow, what has it been two weeks. I finally finished drilling the holes for the dummy cannons. All done. Messed up one on the starboard side but it will glue into place alright. The cannons also cut the light from the LED in the gun ports. They look alright. Will put them back in the tray and go to copper tiles. Will be reading about how to blacken the cannons later. 

Here is my Victory with dummy cannons drilled. Won't see this for a while. Will cover the sides now with plastic and tape. 

It's a long weekend here in Canada: -- Victoria day weekend. (Yep, named after Queen Victoria who was the first monarch of the Canadian confederation (1867) - For those who are not aware Canada has a constitutional monarchy and our current Queen is Queen Elizabeth the Second). 

 

Last weekend of riding for this season. Will be out in the mountains.

Hope you enjoy the humour in the photo.

[joshukr]

it is looking good. Enjoyed your last post.

 

-josh

[Erik Nyren]

Intressting comment. The lights in my build are the once for the lower gun deck. More will be added for the remaining decks and gallery later. Do you mean that I should make a backup system or do you figure that threre are to few LEDs?

Regards

Erik

[robipod]

thanks Josh... am going to have to do catch up on everyone's build this week. Will start tonight

 

Erik thinking of two purposes for the extra set of LEDs . 1. As a back up when the first set goes/ or might go but am also thinking that if you put the extra set in now and find the one set of LEDs is not enough to give you the right kind of light... and 2. the second set would give you the option of having both sets on at the same time. I should send John a note too about making a redundant set of lights too. That is something that i would definitely do now. Mind you I don't have the electrical skills to achieve it. I am going to add an extra light or two on the ceiling of the upper gun deck just for the sake of having the spare.

 

Erik I've read the comment on lighting for these ships that less is better for the interior because the candle/oil lamps they used would not throw much light if any. I totally understand the comment. However, what I've seen so far is that I don't sit in a completely dark room.... That is reserved for the bedroom... LOL  By having very little light shining through the gun ports they don't even look like there are any lights there. I was able to brighten the middle gun deck lights by re positioning them a bit to show more light.  When my Victory sits in the room I can't see the lower deck gun ports LEDs flickering at all until I shut off all the lights.

 

It will of course be personal preference but as said I've already brightened mine so that when it sits in the main area of the place, it will at least show the lighting with a couple lights off instead of all the lights off in the place. I wonder if I could get an image of what I'm saying here.. not even going to try.    

Was flipping through some images and I do have an example. There is a light on in the room directly behind the model. You can see the middle gun deck gun port interior from the brightened LEDs.

 

 

 

Do I babble on or what?

Edited May 24, 2013 by robipod

[robipod]

Just realized I haven't posted my final of the Victory reconstruction. Here it is. At the bow in '83 or so. Left this in a higher resolution and pixels so you can see the details of the wood and construction at this point of her. Any thoughts as to the significance of the 1,2,3,4? Am thinking Konstantin will know. I have no idea.

Enjoy

Edited May 24, 2013 by robipod

[muggebigge]

Nice work so far..i will follow this 

[Fortres]

Rob, this simply unique photo !
It that I search already 3 months !
On a photo we see nasal part of upper deck ahead beakhead bulkhead, thus such, as she was exactly in 1805 - at one level with a basic deck.
A cylinder is tail part of new metallic bowsprit(from a pipe)...

 

[robipod]

Konstantin - your knowledge of the real ship is so impressive. Thanks for this description. The upper right of the photo I took is a plastic tarp.