KLarsen

Does anyone have any information on how the frames were bolted together at the end of the 18th century? From what I've found round headed bolts were used in the British navy, but I've seen others use square headed bolted on Spanish ship models. And were the bolts bronze or iron? I'd definitely be easier for me to make round headed bolts but if square headed were used, maybe I can make them somehow.

Yeah I did the same. It's necessary to fix some of the attachments points or it's like a multivariable function. 😄 Did you have any issues with the upper parts of the rear frames not aligning well when you installed the rest of the frames?

Trying to get the rear frames perfectly aligned seems almost impossible; is there any secret trick to getting it done? The transom pieces have the correct angle, I've sanded and measured them plenty of times and they are fine. I can get the frames to sit almost correctly but there's still 1-2 mm misalignment between the port and starboard ones. I can probably sand that but still. And how do I make sure the upper part of the frames are sitting correctly?

Looking at the plans again with fresh eyes helped. What I thought were the floor timbers are actually the futtocks. Since these are half frames there are no pieces connecting each side. I still need to decide if I want to make the joints at an angle or not.

I was wondering if anyone could help me understand how the frames are drawn here: as I understand it, the short pieces or floor timbers face towards the master frame (the stem in this case), while the futtocks face towards the stern. However, the way the frame is drawn here the floor timber sits lower than the futtock. The hull should be sweeping upwards at this point though, it's the very end of the ship. I've tried drawing the pieces in red which is where I'd cut them. But unless I turn them around and have the futtock face towards the master frame they are never going to fit. Another thing: the pieces of each frame are joined at an angle. Is that normal? Would it be wrong to not complicate matters and just make the joint at a right angle? Am I misunderstanding the plans (I probably am, but I can't figure out in what way)?

Thanks! No, I've spent a little too much on tools lately. Also, I don't really have room for it, so I'll try and do without.

I've created the curve for the rotated frames and sanded the whole keel assembly to more or less the correct proportions. This weekend I created the transom pieces and fitted them, I left about 1-2 mm on the ends so I have something to remove when I eventually fit the last frame. I hope that's enough. I guess the best would be to not glue those pieces in yet, in case I need to change something when fitting the frame? Next up I have to create the yoke (not sure if that's the right name, yugo in Spanish. It's the uppormost transom piece). It is curved in both directions so that will be a bit more tricky to make. Then I can start on the frames, I'll probably make the "normal" frames first before the rotated half-frames, which seem rather difficult. Oh, and I also need to decide where exactly to cut the cross section. I'm thinking around frame 58 since that'll include the wheel and mizzen mast (I'll just install a stump, not the whole thing). Also the cut shouldn't be at a gun port but close to a deck beam. Decisions decisions.

Thank you! I'll see if I can find 2 flute bits, unfortunately the shops around here don't have much to choose from. Maybe I can find them on Amazon though?

I'm progressing slowly but steadily with the keel: I had to buy yet another tool for this part. It's a manual x/y table for the Proxxon drill and stand. It should allow me to mill much more precise pieces than I could otherwise make.

I already bought a disc sander, and yeah it's invaluable. I can't even imagine having to sand those pieces by hand.

Continuing with the puzzle. Cutting those pieces out by hand was "fun", maybe I should invest in a scroll saw... 🤔 Now I just need to fit everything and then I can sand down the pieces to the correct thickness and slope. Luckily the plans show the slope well, I just need to be careful. By the way, the stern post seems too high in the photo: in reality it's not, I just didn't align it well enough on the plan when taking the photo. The keel is maybe 0,5mm too tall but I can sand that off later.

I'm not knowledgeable enough to confirm it with certainty, but it makes sense. The only thing I don't understand then, is why the keel is not distorted in the same view. What I can confirm though is that the frame is indeed seen from the right angle. The lines to the right of each frame shows it from the longitudinal view, and it is narrower there as one would expect. I've been progressing with the stern posts today. Don't worry, I'm not going to detail every little piece of the ship in this blog. 😉 I have a lot of respect for you guys building fully framed ships, these are just the baby steps I'm taking and I'm finding it really hard. I've already had to remake one piece because the template I used got stretched when gluing it on. Still I'm having a lot of fun and am learning, which is the most important!

Possibly, but then the keel would also be distorted in this view, and it isn't. Anyway, using the measurements Adrián Sorolla told me everything seems to fit just fine. There's another plan that has the cross sections projected onto the side view that I hadn't noticed at first.

I can finally get started on the model and today I made the keel. I also treated myself to a new toy, a Proxxon disc sander. Gone are the days of sanding everything by hand!

Hello Adrian, Thank you so much, that's great information! I've been studying the plans thoroughly this afternoon and got to the same conclusion regarding the central block. Do you mind if I contact you via PM here in the future if I have more questions about the plans? Again, thank you, much appreciated!

Having just finished my first Ancre monograph scratch build, the Santa Caterina, I'm ready for something a LOT more ambitious: a stern cross section of La Mahonesa, a Spanish frigate (or possibly one of the other frigates built from the same plans, I've yet to decide on that). She'll be built from swiss pear only and be half planked, showing as much interior detail as I'm capable of doing. Initially I wanted to build La Belle from Ancre, but got completely overwhelmed when I studied the plans. Instead I decided to focus on what seemed to me the most difficult part of a hull, the stern section, and decided on La Mahonesa due to her size. However, I've already run into trouble and am unable to decipher the plans. 😂 The space between the angled stern frames doesn't seem to be consistent between plans. On plan 3 (frames) it's shown as 8mm, which is strange since the keelson is 7,3mm over the rest of the frames. Is the keelson supposed to be wider at the stern, even wider than the stern post? Somehow that doesn't make sense to me and is not how it's depicted on the other plans nor on the photos of the prototype model. On the overhead view the distance from the frame to the centerline is 2,5mm, making the space 5mm. Which plan should I trust here? Another point, the frame on the top photo is wider than when shown here on the overhead view. This leads me to believe that the frame is shown at 90 degress to its flat side, not from the stern of the ship. In that case, I suppose I can't trust the cross section of the keel and keelson as it's depicted but should take those measurements from the overhead and stern views? I hope I'm making some sense here...

I live near Granada in southern Spain.

Hi @wefalck, Very interesting, thank you! I'll see if I can get that French book you mention, I can just about read enough French to hopefully understand it. Nuestra Vela Latina is written is Castellano (Spanish) with some of the technical names is Catalan. It's possible it's originally in Catalan, I don't know.

Your amazing model has been of great help to me, I've looked at your album several times while building. Don't worry about the antenna, the monograph is quite consistent in having it upside down so I'd have made the same mistake had I not got other sources 😂

Thank you! I've decided not to glue any of the rigging, I want to be able to change the position of the antenna and maybe even dismantle the rig if I need to transport the model. As it is, even the mast isn't glued in.

Thank you! Yeah a lateen rig ought to look elegant. I could have gone for an even longer antenna but I'd have had to make the mast longer too. I think what I ended up with is just right for a fishing boat. The antenna is roughly 1,4 times the length of the boat, it should be between 1,2 and 1,8 with 1,5 being the normal. Oh and by the way, the monograph is 0,9 which is just way too short.

I'll attempt to document the changes I've made to the rigging, especially where I've deviated from the monograph. I only know the names of the rigging in Spanish, and Google Translate isn't of much use with nautical terms, so I hope you can accept the names not being translated. Tackle for the antenna As I've already commented earlier, the blocks for the antenna are over dimensioned in the monograph. I've replaced them with double blocks. The way they are attached isn't much different. Troza This is the assembly that can be seen below: a loop that goes around the mast and antenna and tightened via a block. It's attached to the side of the boat with a pair of single blocks (only the upper one is shown). This part is basically correct in the monograph. Davante This is the rope that holds the lower part of the antenna down, maintaining the angle with the horizontal. In the monograph this rope is doubled and runs through a single block, belayed to both sides of the boat. I don't think that's correct because it'll only allow the antenna to rotate a little from the longitudinal; in reality it can go as much to 90 degrees (perpendicular to the keel). Orzapopa This is the rope that rotates the antenna from the longitudinal according to the wind and course. This is completely absent from the monograph (possibly confused with the davante above). Escota Not much to say here really, I think this one is self explanatory. It's completely correct in the monograph, except it should go around the stern post. Falsa troza This is the closed loop of rope seen below. It's used to prevent the antenna from seperating too much from the mast when you loosen the rope that holds it tight (the troza), when maneouvering the antenna. It isn't shown or mentioned in the monograph. Traba This one can be seen both on the photo above and below. It's a thin rope that is fastened to the sling holding the antenna, running through a sheave in the butt of the antenna, and back to the other side of the sling. It prevents the antenna from slipping and falling down. This isn't shown in the monograph either. Osta This is the long rope running from the antenna to the side of the boat. It serves as reinforcement for the antenna during strong winds, preventing it from breaking. In the monograph there's one each side and the text says it's to angle the antenna, which in reality is done by the orzapopa. It wouldn't make sense to try and angle the antenna at this point, it would require a lot more force than using the orzapopa in front. Cenal Shown above to the left of the osta, it's used to raise the sail. This is correct on the monograph. Amantina This one I've left out. It's a tackle attached to the rear of the antenna and the top of the mast. It's used in heavy seas to help keep the angle of the antenna. According to my sources it was only used occasionally. The monograph has this attached to the front of the antenna, not the rear. This doesn't seem correct to me as the heavy part of the antenna is the rear, which would naturally want to fall down. Other differences Compare my rigging to the one of the model in the monograph. This one has a shroud each side of the mast, which I believe was never used on small boats (the troza with its tackle serves as a shroud). There's also a tackle to the very rear of the antenna, maybe for a flag? It also uses a lot more blocks which in my view would be more correct on large ships. And lastly, a photo of the belaying points. The ropes need a bit more tidying but they won't cooperate. 😂 I hope this is useful! Please keep in mind that I am not an expert at all, most of my knowledge comes from the book Nuestra Vela Latina mentioned above. It's quite possible that I've completely misunderstood the lateen rig and my model is not correct. Still I believe it's an improvement on the monograph. Edit: Seems that I had a left-over photo. Instead of removing it I'll let you enjoy it. 😜

Thank you! 😊 Don't worry, I'll document the rigging here, though it might be some weeks until I get time for it.

I have more or less finished the boat now. I most likely won't make the bowsprit because apparently it was almost never used on boats smaller than around 9 meters. Also, I wouldn't be able to set the sail in a way that would be realistic like I've done with the main sail. I'm also not sure if I'll make an anchor or other equipment. I don't want the boat to look too cluttered. I'll still need to tidy the ropes a bit more and make a name plate for the stand. And there are probably a few things to touch up here and there. If anyone is interested I can go over the rigging and compare it to the monograph, it might be useful for others thinking of building this boat? Please let me know if it would be of interest! And of course here are a few pictures. I'll take better ones when I have better light. It's been a fun project, and I'm really happy with the result! I still feel it's only 99% complete though, like I've forgot to add something. So this build log isn't finished yet. 😉

Today I sew the bolt rope onto the sail which means it's almost done, it just needs reinforcements at the corners and the ropes that attaches it to the antenna. It's not perfect but for a first attempt I think it's fine. I'll definitely keep it as it is.