Capt.Bob

Ed,
Its now 5:30AM and I'm up worrying.  I checked the cross section view at sta 25 and recognized the thickness of the rail.  My measurements were al little off.  6" makes everything come out right.
 
I'm going back to bed!!
 
Bob

Ed,
Thanks for the explanation.  I still have some confusion. The height at Sta 28 from the keel to the "Top of Wale" & "Red Line" on dqgs 4 & 5 respectively in the same. On dwg 4 from the Wale to the planksheer is 30", but on dwg 5 the planksheer is only 23".  What am I missing??
 
I couldn't find any 24 awg wire in my vast pile of stuff, so while ordering some other things I ordered a roll.  I didn't realize it at the time, but its a roll of just over 800' of wire.  That should be enough.  Also, I have never been pleased with epoxy bonds to metal, especially quick curing ones. Its hard to keep wire really clean when constantly handling small pieces. This new roll has a .001" plastic coating of some sort and it seems to bond well.  I did some pull test with the coated and bear wire. The bare wire bond failed adhesively, but the coated wire failed cohesively. I have some West One epoxy left over from the days when my garage was a boat shop.  It has a 12 hour cure time and if I spread a small puddle on a piece of wax paper I can extend the working time to over an hour.
 
I've started pining the main deck clamp.  I hope everything is in the right place.
Its 2:30AM, time to quite.
 
Thanks for all the help,
 
Bob

Thank you all for your kind remarks.
 
Roger:  It is a neat trick for quick results.  I have used it on occasion in the past with softer woods like balsa.  Rather than boiling water, I would tightly wrap the pieces in a paper towel saturated with water.  The towel provided a sufficient supply of moisture and enough pressure to help force steam into the material. Hard woods may not be quite as easy.  I can tell you that without sufficient moisture you can set the piece on fire.  I'd rather not explain how I know this.
 
I ran several build threads on RC Universe while building large RC airplanes.  I would build one project a year, which usually took 6-8 months.  Progress on airplanes can be quite dramatic and very conducive to photo essays rather than dialogue.  The YA project, at least for me, is a very long term affair.  I have no illusions about ever completing it.  I not sure that I have enough years left.  However, it has become one of the most rewarding projects I have ever attempted.  It is truly the journey and not the destination that is of the most value.  In the meantime I have my books, music, woodshop, and time spent in the country club bar with friends lying about my golf game.  Honestly, I couldn't be happier than to sit and the feet of the Master and enjoy the beauty of his work.  With Ed's indulgence I will be happy to inject a brief update now and then.
 
For the Master: After resolving approximately 150 data points I have come to the conclusion that the correct dimension between the top surface of the three deck clamps is 84". Please confirm.   I have attributed any significant data variation to print distortion and measurement error.  As a means of eliminating as much error as possible I am designing a jig to set the middle and lower deck clamps using the main deck clamp as a datum.  These feature are so fundamental that it deserves extra effort.
 
I'm a little surprised that I appear to be the only one enjoying the build of such a great vessel.  Also, what man can pass up an excuse to buy more tools.  Just for prospective I've attached a photo of where the ship was born.  12 bdf of 8/4 Swiss pear.
 
Later,  Bob
 
 

While there is a lull in the action, I thought I'd share some progress on my YA.  After making frames for what seemed like forever, its finally time to begin on the ship's interior.  Ed suggested starting with the bilge ceiling, but since it required removing the shell from the shipway (which I have never had the courage to do), I've decided to start with the deck clamps.  With the three deck clamps in place the structure will be far more rigid and less prone to warping.  Given the importance of these initial structures I have had nightmares about alinement accuracy.  I keep re-measuring everything constantly.  The deeper I get into this project the greater the investment.  It can get a bit scary.
 
Looking ahead at the bending members I decided a small steam box is going to be essential.  I built this small one from an old electric kettle, tubing, and PVC pipe.  I made a 12", 18", & 36" insulated tube oven to accommodate different sizes.  I steamed an 8 X 8 piece of hard maple and bent it around the stern rail pattern.  It seemed to work quite well.  However, PVC doesn't like elevated temperatures.  I'm going to try ABS.
 
I do have a question for Ed.  You used 24 awg wire and 5 minute epoxy to secure the deck clamps, et al.  Also, you peened the ends of the wire after cure.  I'm concerned that 5 minute epoxy has too short a working life and would constantly mixing small batches.  Additionally, by peening the ends after trimming I would be concerned about breaking the epoxy/copper bond.  Any advice?
 
Its time to charge into the breach.  ....., the brave die but once.
 
Bob

Ed,
Its now 5:30AM and I'm up worrying.  I checked the cross section view at sta 25 and recognized the thickness of the rail.  My measurements were al little off.  6" makes everything come out right.
 
I'm going back to bed!!
 
Bob

Thanks for the input, Frank.  I will look into the Aluminum tubing.  There is a small amount of wire cable on the model, but it is a long way off and I have not begun to play with that yet.  I think the hooks will be OK black.
 
Ed 

Here's a link to Special Shapes - aluminum tubing is available down to 1/16 OD.
 
http://www.specialshapes.com/rdalum014.html

Hi Ed:
 
I've been doing some experimenting with rigging for a future Skipjack build, and have a few thoughts to contribute:
 
Wire shrouds can be made from nichrome wire, which comes in very small sizes.  I've made cable using 32 gauge wire, and the cable measures out at .015", which is slightly smaller than 1/2" at the 1:32 scale I'll be working at.  The final cable is somewhat shiny but does give the impression of a steel cable.  I was able to tone down the shine by using some ebony Rub'n'Buff.
 
As for thimbles that won't be blackened, I was able to find some very small tubing made from aluminum - this may work for you.
 
I've read (in Ken Foran's book on Model Building with Brass) that copper can be electroplated  to a nickel finish - this may work for hooks, etc that should not be blackened.

Young America - extreme clipper 1853
Part 193 – First Rigging Work
 
It has been quite a long time, relatively speaking, since the last posted update.  I have been very busy, but with little progress that is visible on the model.  Decisions and documentation for the rigging have been major, time consuming efforts.  Because rigging was undergoing a transition at the time – from rope to wire or chain, to the use of iron fittings like shackles, and many other things, there are choices to be made.  Some require a modeling solution before they can be adopted.  The idea of arbitrary choices may seem odd, but I am using more than half a dozen sources, old and new, they all differ and few are date based or specific as to merchant vs. navy.
 
It may seem surprising, but the first rigging to be done will be the topmast futtock shrouds.  I plan to install these on the masts after the tops have been fixed and before the masts are stepped.  I have sidelined that work pending resolution of the futtock shroud design.
 
I number of issues have to be decided.  The first was rope vs. iron bar.  I have decided on rope.  Then there is material – linen vs. cotton.  I would like to use linen on the standing rigging that will be modeled taut.  I have been making a lot of sample rope using the six sizes of thread in my inventory to decide how to make each size.  Then there are questions on fastenings: hooks, shackles or lashed eyes.  I have tentatively decided on hooks with thimbles at the deadeye straps and lashed eyes at the mast eyebolts.
 
I have just a few pictures illustrating some of the test work.  None of this is finished product.  The first picture shows a blackened hook and thimble, an unblackened thimble made from thin-wall, 1mm, brass tube, and the tool used to shape the thimble flares.
 

 
The flaring tool was turned from a bit of drill rod, then hardened.  It will probably be replaced with a better shape.  I may or may not pre-fabricate the hooks and thimbles.  
 
Thimbles at this time were becoming more heart shaped and open at the throat.  Although Longridge describes a method, I could not do it at this size.  Also, thimbles were not black – another issue.  I also have to decide how far down in rope size to use thimbles.
 
 There are some advantages, to pre-fabbing the hooked thimbles but more test work is needed.  The next picture shows an alternate approach where the eye is formed first, the thimble inserted, flared in place, the area over the splice served and the serving used to tighten the throat.
 

 
The picture shows two sizes of thimble 1mm and 1.5mm – another decision.  A length of rope, ~6" in this case, was served first. 
 
The eye splice was made by looping the served line and gluing it below the throat.  When dry, the excess was trimmed off the splice and the thimble inserted.  The splice was then served with thinned glue to strengthen the joint and tighten the throat.  The hooks were then formed in the eye.
 
The last picture shows a closer view.
 

 
I like this method but the metal parts will need to be blackened first and that raises issues in forming the hooks.  The shapes of the splices will get better.  These test pieces were made in the space of about an hour, so I had to be careful with the unhardened glue joints.
 
And so it goes…
 
Ed

We're good.
Bob

Ed,
Its now 5:30AM and I'm up worrying.  I checked the cross section view at sta 25 and recognized the thickness of the rail.  My measurements were al little off.  6" makes everything come out right.
 
I'm going back to bed!!
 
Bob

Ed,
Thanks for the explanation.  I still have some confusion. The height at Sta 28 from the keel to the "Top of Wale" & "Red Line" on dqgs 4 & 5 respectively in the same. On dwg 4 from the Wale to the planksheer is 30", but on dwg 5 the planksheer is only 23".  What am I missing??
 
I couldn't find any 24 awg wire in my vast pile of stuff, so while ordering some other things I ordered a roll.  I didn't realize it at the time, but its a roll of just over 800' of wire.  That should be enough.  Also, I have never been pleased with epoxy bonds to metal, especially quick curing ones. Its hard to keep wire really clean when constantly handling small pieces. This new roll has a .001" plastic coating of some sort and it seems to bond well.  I did some pull test with the coated and bear wire. The bare wire bond failed adhesively, but the coated wire failed cohesively. I have some West One epoxy left over from the days when my garage was a boat shop.  It has a 12 hour cure time and if I spread a small puddle on a piece of wax paper I can extend the working time to over an hour.
 
I've started pining the main deck clamp.  I hope everything is in the right place.
Its 2:30AM, time to quite.
 
Thanks for all the help,
 
Bob

An additional comment, Bob.  I should have mentioned, that the line of the main deck at the side is the most important to have correct.  This line runs parallel to the planksheer, which is defined on the builder's offsets. This line defines the underside of the planksheer rail and the upper face of the main deck waterway that rests on it.  You will see from the list of dimensions that the main deck waterway is 11" deep.  Since this waterway rests on the 12" deep main deck beams at the side, the top of the main deck clamps should be 23" (11+12) below the planksheer.  This relationship holds over most of the length, but forward of about  Frame line T the depth of the waterway begins to reduce to about 9" at the stem.  The red line on drawing 5 reflects this relationship with the planksheer line that is shown on drawings 3 and 4.  Its a nasty little complication that you need to keep in mind.  This change in waterway depth is referenced on pp160-61 and p 185.  You will see that installing the planksheer rail later, as a practical matter, its height will be set by the waterway installed earlier.
 
If this is too confusing, let me know.  My best advice is to set the deck clamps to the red lines on drawing 5, as indicated in the book.
 
Martin, I again passed over your note.  Bob's questions always get my juices flowing.  I am familiar with Dawson's painting of Taeping and Ariel as well as others, including the one from above the deck that you mention.  When I was working in the West end in 1969-71, the painting was on display in a the Bond Street Gallery that carried his work.  I had two prints hanging in our home for years, Constituion and Java and one of an unnamed (or forgotten) Spanish ship.  I've always loved his work.
 
Ed

Hi Bob,
 
I did not include the thickness of the planksheer rail in the calculation because the line of the planksheer is taken at the underside of the rail, so everything is measured downward from there.  The planksheer is 6" deep.  I hope I have not mentioned 7" anywhere that would cause confusion.  Both the text and the List of Dimensions show 6".
 
Metal to wood joints can be an issue.  I have found that working the epoxy into the bolt hole helps, but the normal adhesion issues still apply.  Slower curing epoxies may be better.  Perhaps application early in the cure cycle improves adhesion. I haven't a clue.  In any case, longer cure times is a benefit for the other reasons mentioned above. I use only uncoated wire so when it is used for fittings or in other exposed applications it may be blackened - also for soldering.
 
If you are functioning at 230 am, you have my admiration.  My effectiveness - at just about anything - ceases after dinner at 7.
 
Ed

Although the drawings are pretty accurate, always refer to the List.  Sleep tight.
 
Ed

Bob, in looking at your earlier note I see that you edited the text.  I cannot understand the altered question relating to wale height etc.  Was this question superseded by your last note?  Are we good, or do you need some further clarification?  There is no wale line on Drawing 5, which is an internal view.  The 23" distance from the planksheer to the wale is consistent on Drawings 1, 3, and 4.  All appears correct to me, but... if you have questions....
 
Ed

Ed,
Its now 5:30AM and I'm up worrying.  I checked the cross section view at sta 25 and recognized the thickness of the rail.  My measurements were al little off.  6" makes everything come out right.
 
I'm going back to bed!!
 
Bob

Ed,
Thanks for the explanation.  I still have some confusion. The height at Sta 28 from the keel to the "Top of Wale" & "Red Line" on dqgs 4 & 5 respectively in the same. On dwg 4 from the Wale to the planksheer is 30", but on dwg 5 the planksheer is only 23".  What am I missing??
 
I couldn't find any 24 awg wire in my vast pile of stuff, so while ordering some other things I ordered a roll.  I didn't realize it at the time, but its a roll of just over 800' of wire.  That should be enough.  Also, I have never been pleased with epoxy bonds to metal, especially quick curing ones. Its hard to keep wire really clean when constantly handling small pieces. This new roll has a .001" plastic coating of some sort and it seems to bond well.  I did some pull test with the coated and bear wire. The bare wire bond failed adhesively, but the coated wire failed cohesively. I have some West One epoxy left over from the days when my garage was a boat shop.  It has a 12 hour cure time and if I spread a small puddle on a piece of wax paper I can extend the working time to over an hour.
 
I've started pining the main deck clamp.  I hope everything is in the right place.
Its 2:30AM, time to quite.
 
Thanks for all the help,
 
Bob

Ed,
Its now 5:30AM and I'm up worrying.  I checked the cross section view at sta 25 and recognized the thickness of the rail.  My measurements were al little off.  6" makes everything come out right.
 
I'm going back to bed!!
 
Bob

Thank you all for your kind remarks.
 
Roger:  It is a neat trick for quick results.  I have used it on occasion in the past with softer woods like balsa.  Rather than boiling water, I would tightly wrap the pieces in a paper towel saturated with water.  The towel provided a sufficient supply of moisture and enough pressure to help force steam into the material. Hard woods may not be quite as easy.  I can tell you that without sufficient moisture you can set the piece on fire.  I'd rather not explain how I know this.
 
I ran several build threads on RC Universe while building large RC airplanes.  I would build one project a year, which usually took 6-8 months.  Progress on airplanes can be quite dramatic and very conducive to photo essays rather than dialogue.  The YA project, at least for me, is a very long term affair.  I have no illusions about ever completing it.  I not sure that I have enough years left.  However, it has become one of the most rewarding projects I have ever attempted.  It is truly the journey and not the destination that is of the most value.  In the meantime I have my books, music, woodshop, and time spent in the country club bar with friends lying about my golf game.  Honestly, I couldn't be happier than to sit and the feet of the Master and enjoy the beauty of his work.  With Ed's indulgence I will be happy to inject a brief update now and then.
 
For the Master: After resolving approximately 150 data points I have come to the conclusion that the correct dimension between the top surface of the three deck clamps is 84". Please confirm.   I have attributed any significant data variation to print distortion and measurement error.  As a means of eliminating as much error as possible I am designing a jig to set the middle and lower deck clamps using the main deck clamp as a datum.  These feature are so fundamental that it deserves extra effort.
 
I'm a little surprised that I appear to be the only one enjoying the build of such a great vessel.  Also, what man can pass up an excuse to buy more tools.  Just for prospective I've attached a photo of where the ship was born.  12 bdf of 8/4 Swiss pear.
 
Later,  Bob
 
 

Ed,
Thanks for the explanation.  I still have some confusion. The height at Sta 28 from the keel to the "Top of Wale" & "Red Line" on dqgs 4 & 5 respectively in the same. On dwg 4 from the Wale to the planksheer is 30", but on dwg 5 the planksheer is only 23".  What am I missing??
 
I couldn't find any 24 awg wire in my vast pile of stuff, so while ordering some other things I ordered a roll.  I didn't realize it at the time, but its a roll of just over 800' of wire.  That should be enough.  Also, I have never been pleased with epoxy bonds to metal, especially quick curing ones. Its hard to keep wire really clean when constantly handling small pieces. This new roll has a .001" plastic coating of some sort and it seems to bond well.  I did some pull test with the coated and bear wire. The bare wire bond failed adhesively, but the coated wire failed cohesively. I have some West One epoxy left over from the days when my garage was a boat shop.  It has a 12 hour cure time and if I spread a small puddle on a piece of wax paper I can extend the working time to over an hour.
 
I've started pining the main deck clamp.  I hope everything is in the right place.
Its 2:30AM, time to quite.
 
Thanks for all the help,
 
Bob

Thank you all for your kind remarks.
 
Roger:  It is a neat trick for quick results.  I have used it on occasion in the past with softer woods like balsa.  Rather than boiling water, I would tightly wrap the pieces in a paper towel saturated with water.  The towel provided a sufficient supply of moisture and enough pressure to help force steam into the material. Hard woods may not be quite as easy.  I can tell you that without sufficient moisture you can set the piece on fire.  I'd rather not explain how I know this.
 
I ran several build threads on RC Universe while building large RC airplanes.  I would build one project a year, which usually took 6-8 months.  Progress on airplanes can be quite dramatic and very conducive to photo essays rather than dialogue.  The YA project, at least for me, is a very long term affair.  I have no illusions about ever completing it.  I not sure that I have enough years left.  However, it has become one of the most rewarding projects I have ever attempted.  It is truly the journey and not the destination that is of the most value.  In the meantime I have my books, music, woodshop, and time spent in the country club bar with friends lying about my golf game.  Honestly, I couldn't be happier than to sit and the feet of the Master and enjoy the beauty of his work.  With Ed's indulgence I will be happy to inject a brief update now and then.
 
For the Master: After resolving approximately 150 data points I have come to the conclusion that the correct dimension between the top surface of the three deck clamps is 84". Please confirm.   I have attributed any significant data variation to print distortion and measurement error.  As a means of eliminating as much error as possible I am designing a jig to set the middle and lower deck clamps using the main deck clamp as a datum.  These feature are so fundamental that it deserves extra effort.
 
I'm a little surprised that I appear to be the only one enjoying the build of such a great vessel.  Also, what man can pass up an excuse to buy more tools.  Just for prospective I've attached a photo of where the ship was born.  12 bdf of 8/4 Swiss pear.
 
Later,  Bob
 
 

Thank you all for your kind remarks.
 
Roger:  It is a neat trick for quick results.  I have used it on occasion in the past with softer woods like balsa.  Rather than boiling water, I would tightly wrap the pieces in a paper towel saturated with water.  The towel provided a sufficient supply of moisture and enough pressure to help force steam into the material. Hard woods may not be quite as easy.  I can tell you that without sufficient moisture you can set the piece on fire.  I'd rather not explain how I know this.
 
I ran several build threads on RC Universe while building large RC airplanes.  I would build one project a year, which usually took 6-8 months.  Progress on airplanes can be quite dramatic and very conducive to photo essays rather than dialogue.  The YA project, at least for me, is a very long term affair.  I have no illusions about ever completing it.  I not sure that I have enough years left.  However, it has become one of the most rewarding projects I have ever attempted.  It is truly the journey and not the destination that is of the most value.  In the meantime I have my books, music, woodshop, and time spent in the country club bar with friends lying about my golf game.  Honestly, I couldn't be happier than to sit and the feet of the Master and enjoy the beauty of his work.  With Ed's indulgence I will be happy to inject a brief update now and then.
 
For the Master: After resolving approximately 150 data points I have come to the conclusion that the correct dimension between the top surface of the three deck clamps is 84". Please confirm.   I have attributed any significant data variation to print distortion and measurement error.  As a means of eliminating as much error as possible I am designing a jig to set the middle and lower deck clamps using the main deck clamp as a datum.  These feature are so fundamental that it deserves extra effort.
 
I'm a little surprised that I appear to be the only one enjoying the build of such a great vessel.  Also, what man can pass up an excuse to buy more tools.  Just for prospective I've attached a photo of where the ship was born.  12 bdf of 8/4 Swiss pear.
 
Later,  Bob
 
 

While there is a lull in the action, I thought I'd share some progress on my YA.  After making frames for what seemed like forever, its finally time to begin on the ship's interior.  Ed suggested starting with the bilge ceiling, but since it required removing the shell from the shipway (which I have never had the courage to do), I've decided to start with the deck clamps.  With the three deck clamps in place the structure will be far more rigid and less prone to warping.  Given the importance of these initial structures I have had nightmares about alinement accuracy.  I keep re-measuring everything constantly.  The deeper I get into this project the greater the investment.  It can get a bit scary.
 
Looking ahead at the bending members I decided a small steam box is going to be essential.  I built this small one from an old electric kettle, tubing, and PVC pipe.  I made a 12", 18", & 36" insulated tube oven to accommodate different sizes.  I steamed an 8 X 8 piece of hard maple and bent it around the stern rail pattern.  It seemed to work quite well.  However, PVC doesn't like elevated temperatures.  I'm going to try ABS.
 
I do have a question for Ed.  You used 24 awg wire and 5 minute epoxy to secure the deck clamps, et al.  Also, you peened the ends of the wire after cure.  I'm concerned that 5 minute epoxy has too short a working life and would constantly mixing small batches.  Additionally, by peening the ends after trimming I would be concerned about breaking the epoxy/copper bond.  Any advice?
 
Its time to charge into the breach.  ....., the brave die but once.
 
Bob

While there is a lull in the action, I thought I'd share some progress on my YA.  After making frames for what seemed like forever, its finally time to begin on the ship's interior.  Ed suggested starting with the bilge ceiling, but since it required removing the shell from the shipway (which I have never had the courage to do), I've decided to start with the deck clamps.  With the three deck clamps in place the structure will be far more rigid and less prone to warping.  Given the importance of these initial structures I have had nightmares about alinement accuracy.  I keep re-measuring everything constantly.  The deeper I get into this project the greater the investment.  It can get a bit scary.
 
Looking ahead at the bending members I decided a small steam box is going to be essential.  I built this small one from an old electric kettle, tubing, and PVC pipe.  I made a 12", 18", & 36" insulated tube oven to accommodate different sizes.  I steamed an 8 X 8 piece of hard maple and bent it around the stern rail pattern.  It seemed to work quite well.  However, PVC doesn't like elevated temperatures.  I'm going to try ABS.
 
I do have a question for Ed.  You used 24 awg wire and 5 minute epoxy to secure the deck clamps, et al.  Also, you peened the ends of the wire after cure.  I'm concerned that 5 minute epoxy has too short a working life and would constantly mixing small batches.  Additionally, by peening the ends after trimming I would be concerned about breaking the epoxy/copper bond.  Any advice?
 
Its time to charge into the breach.  ....., the brave die but once.
 
Bob