Talos

They're completely unconnected. The quarter galleries are a deck below, on the gun deck, with a fairing on top that extends about halfway up the spar deck bulwarks. United State's were double-level, but I don't think they penetrated the spar deck bulkwarks. The WCs on the quarterdeck aren't structural parts, they're just scabbed onto the inside of the side timbers. Basically like sitting a pair of porta potties on the deck and wedged into the corners of the quarterdeck.
 
Chapelle has other plans that show them, mostly in smaller sloops and brigs. Similarly, and this isn't in Chapelle, but HMS Guerriere (the captured French/British frigate, not the US-built replacement) had a pair of non-structural but permanent WCs installed at the front of her gun deck, between the bridle and the first gunport (which I realize frolick posted a year ago). Looking up that post, there's a couple good shots of a gundeck roundhouse in the bow of United States that should help with you picturing it on her quarterdeck. Just imagine something like this, but curved and faired-in. http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/6470-martingale-dolphin-stricker-uss-united-states-44/?p=191584

While United States probably had single-story quartergalleries, Chapelle does attempt a reconstruction of two-level ones for it. They would just be an extension of the top of the gallery with false windows just like the lower level. HMS President, the replacement for the captured US frigate built on roughly the same lines, did have one though. While the rest of the stern is completely different, it can give a decent idea of what those kind of quartergalleries could look like. http://s017.radikal.ru/i428/1212/a2/78007cc6952c.jpg
 
Returning to Chapelle again, his as-built draught for the Constitution and her sisters have a strange stern. The galleries and stern itself are really high up compared to the deck. The as-captured USS President draught the British took off has a lower gallery, as does the Java-class and other related frigates. I dropped in a pair of ~6 foot tall figures, one on the gun deck and one on the spar deck to illustrate. The dashed lines are his attempt at reconstructing United States' poop deck and extended quartergalleries.
 

They're completely unconnected. The quarter galleries are a deck below, on the gun deck, with a fairing on top that extends about halfway up the spar deck bulwarks. United State's were double-level, but I don't think they penetrated the spar deck bulkwarks. The WCs on the quarterdeck aren't structural parts, they're just scabbed onto the inside of the side timbers. Basically like sitting a pair of porta potties on the deck and wedged into the corners of the quarterdeck.
 
Chapelle has other plans that show them, mostly in smaller sloops and brigs. Similarly, and this isn't in Chapelle, but HMS Guerriere (the captured French/British frigate, not the US-built replacement) had a pair of non-structural but permanent WCs installed at the front of her gun deck, between the bridle and the first gunport (which I realize frolick posted a year ago). Looking up that post, there's a couple good shots of a gundeck roundhouse in the bow of United States that should help with you picturing it on her quarterdeck. Just imagine something like this, but curved and faired-in. http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/6470-martingale-dolphin-stricker-uss-united-states-44/?p=191584

They're completely unconnected. The quarter galleries are a deck below, on the gun deck, with a fairing on top that extends about halfway up the spar deck bulwarks. United State's were double-level, but I don't think they penetrated the spar deck bulkwarks. The WCs on the quarterdeck aren't structural parts, they're just scabbed onto the inside of the side timbers. Basically like sitting a pair of porta potties on the deck and wedged into the corners of the quarterdeck.
 
Chapelle has other plans that show them, mostly in smaller sloops and brigs. Similarly, and this isn't in Chapelle, but HMS Guerriere (the captured French/British frigate, not the US-built replacement) had a pair of non-structural but permanent WCs installed at the front of her gun deck, between the bridle and the first gunport (which I realize frolick posted a year ago). Looking up that post, there's a couple good shots of a gundeck roundhouse in the bow of United States that should help with you picturing it on her quarterdeck. Just imagine something like this, but curved and faired-in. http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/6470-martingale-dolphin-stricker-uss-united-states-44/?p=191584

I'd love to get my hands on details for those (up to draughts) to redraw them and modify them to illustrate those variations. They sound fascinating.
 
Currently working on redrawing HMS Macedonian.
 

Her sister ship, Gorch Foch II (a replacement for the original Gorch Foch which was the first of Eagle's class in Germany, which was taken as Russian war reperations and wasn't brought back to Germany until the early 2000s but is in pretty rough shape) is still in use in the German Navy as a sail training ship. The Portuguese and the Romanians also operate sisters of the class, the Sagres III and the Mircea respectively. It would be neat to see as many of those together as possible for that anniversary.

Her sister ship, Gorch Foch II (a replacement for the original Gorch Foch which was the first of Eagle's class in Germany, which was taken as Russian war reperations and wasn't brought back to Germany until the early 2000s but is in pretty rough shape) is still in use in the German Navy as a sail training ship. The Portuguese and the Romanians also operate sisters of the class, the Sagres III and the Mircea respectively. It would be neat to see as many of those together as possible for that anniversary.

Her sister ship, Gorch Foch II (a replacement for the original Gorch Foch which was the first of Eagle's class in Germany, which was taken as Russian war reperations and wasn't brought back to Germany until the early 2000s but is in pretty rough shape) is still in use in the German Navy as a sail training ship. The Portuguese and the Romanians also operate sisters of the class, the Sagres III and the Mircea respectively. It would be neat to see as many of those together as possible for that anniversary.

I found both of these brief, yet sad recollections of the deaths of two young American naval officers in the book "Surgeon of the Seas: The Adventurous life of Surgeon General Jonathan M. Foltz in the Days of Wooden Ships." by Charles S. Foltz.
 
After an Argentine Schooner of War had seized a neutral American merchant ship in November, 1844, a nearby American squadron consisting of the USS Bainbridge and the USS Congress arrived on the scene, quickly freed her, and captured the entire Buenos Aires squadron, all in front of the approving eyes of "warships of many European nations." Commodore Voorhees then released the Argentine naval ships with a warning not to mess with US ships. Doctor Foltz observed:
 
"Captain Newman, of the Bainbridge, committed suicide under the following circumstances. After leaving Rio,  ... he was coming up the harbor, just as day was dawning,  under American colors and a night pennant. A Buenos Ayrean schooner fired at him, fired a second, and a third time, when Captain Newman ordered his main-topsail thrown to the mast.
 
So soon as this was made known to Captain Voorhees of the Congress, he suspended Captain Newman and rebuked him severely, ordering him to hold himself in readiness for court martial. Captain Newman acknowledged his guilt and unmanly conduct, became conscious of his disgrace, and on the ninth instant, threw himself overboard from the brig. He was found with his pockets filled with lead and [he] was buried on shore."
 
 
In December, 1862, the replacement captain of the USS Vincennes, the same sloop of war which behaved so poorly at the Battle of Head of Passes [see my earlier post on the Preble] against the Ram CSS Manassas, also met a tragic end .
 
"... a few days before, Captain Marcy of the Vincennes, a son of Governor Marcy, the late Secretary of War, had been killed by the recoil of a boat howitzer which broke from its fastenings ... he was beloved and respected by all who knew him, and he leaves a wife and three children."

Interesting accounts. Bainbridge was actually a brig, sister ship to the unlucky Somers. Both had excessive rigs and both went down at sea (Bainbridge in 1863).
 
On the other, that same Vincennes was the flagship of the US Exploring Expedition under then-Lieutenant Wilkes (the same guy who did the Trent Affair in the Civil War) in the 1840s. In this captain's case, it's doubly unlucky, since the boat howitzers were designed with breeching rope originally, but it was removed from the final design because the recoil wasn't enough to really need them. Might have saved this one's life.

Interesting accounts. Bainbridge was actually a brig, sister ship to the unlucky Somers. Both had excessive rigs and both went down at sea (Bainbridge in 1863).
 
On the other, that same Vincennes was the flagship of the US Exploring Expedition under then-Lieutenant Wilkes (the same guy who did the Trent Affair in the Civil War) in the 1840s. In this captain's case, it's doubly unlucky, since the boat howitzers were designed with breeching rope originally, but it was removed from the final design because the recoil wasn't enough to really need them. Might have saved this one's life.

Interesting accounts. Bainbridge was actually a brig, sister ship to the unlucky Somers. Both had excessive rigs and both went down at sea (Bainbridge in 1863).
 
On the other, that same Vincennes was the flagship of the US Exploring Expedition under then-Lieutenant Wilkes (the same guy who did the Trent Affair in the Civil War) in the 1840s. In this captain's case, it's doubly unlucky, since the boat howitzers were designed with breeching rope originally, but it was removed from the final design because the recoil wasn't enough to really need them. Might have saved this one's life.

The Eckford and Grice designs are in the post I did above, for those who aren't familiar with them. They are the second and third respectively in the Chapelle pic. I mentioned it in the other thread, but Eckford's design really reminds me of his schooner Grampus too (and the merchant ship you pointed out too in another book, frolick). It's the head especially, very similar style. I need to redraw those two, and Floyd's big sloop, and see how they look with rig and all.
 

 
Looking at Grice's again, I think it's the last sloop design to have a huge amount of drag to the keel like the old War of 1812 sloops and up to the Erie rebuild (first sloop from the top in the pic in my last post). Even when they went back to smaller dimensions with the Dale and the other 3rd-class sloops, they stuck with a more even keel.

Good scans. JA is definitely one of the Humphreys' boats like that book and Chapelle both state, built on the lines of Vandalia. I'm reposting the quick comparison I threw together of that period in sloop designs from Chapelle so you can see more detail in the draught. The JA/Vandalia's design is fifth from the top. You can always tell the three designs apart by the stern. Humphreys' had a classic stern with quarter galleries, Doughty had a round stern with quarter galleries, and Barker had just a simple round stern (the latter two are sixth and seventh from the top respectively).
 

 
In an interesting comment to the text in your scan, Chapelle asserts that Boston and Vincennes might have been built to the Barker draught, since the two of them are listed as having a slightly narrower beam that matches Barker's designed beam. I'm almost finished my redrawing of the Barker design, just needs the foremast and staysails put in.
 

Good scans. JA is definitely one of the Humphreys' boats like that book and Chapelle both state, built on the lines of Vandalia. I'm reposting the quick comparison I threw together of that period in sloop designs from Chapelle so you can see more detail in the draught. The JA/Vandalia's design is fifth from the top. You can always tell the three designs apart by the stern. Humphreys' had a classic stern with quarter galleries, Doughty had a round stern with quarter galleries, and Barker had just a simple round stern (the latter two are sixth and seventh from the top respectively).
 

 
In an interesting comment to the text in your scan, Chapelle asserts that Boston and Vincennes might have been built to the Barker draught, since the two of them are listed as having a slightly narrower beam that matches Barker's designed beam. I'm almost finished my redrawing of the Barker design, just needs the foremast and staysails put in.
 

The Eckford and Grice designs are in the post I did above, for those who aren't familiar with them. They are the second and third respectively in the Chapelle pic. I mentioned it in the other thread, but Eckford's design really reminds me of his schooner Grampus too (and the merchant ship you pointed out too in another book, frolick). It's the head especially, very similar style. I need to redraw those two, and Floyd's big sloop, and see how they look with rig and all.
 

 
Looking at Grice's again, I think it's the last sloop design to have a huge amount of drag to the keel like the old War of 1812 sloops and up to the Erie rebuild (first sloop from the top in the pic in my last post). Even when they went back to smaller dimensions with the Dale and the other 3rd-class sloops, they stuck with a more even keel.

Good scans. JA is definitely one of the Humphreys' boats like that book and Chapelle both state, built on the lines of Vandalia. I'm reposting the quick comparison I threw together of that period in sloop designs from Chapelle so you can see more detail in the draught. The JA/Vandalia's design is fifth from the top. You can always tell the three designs apart by the stern. Humphreys' had a classic stern with quarter galleries, Doughty had a round stern with quarter galleries, and Barker had just a simple round stern (the latter two are sixth and seventh from the top respectively).
 

 
In an interesting comment to the text in your scan, Chapelle asserts that Boston and Vincennes might have been built to the Barker draught, since the two of them are listed as having a slightly narrower beam that matches Barker's designed beam. I'm almost finished my redrawing of the Barker design, just needs the foremast and staysails put in.
 

Good scans. JA is definitely one of the Humphreys' boats like that book and Chapelle both state, built on the lines of Vandalia. I'm reposting the quick comparison I threw together of that period in sloop designs from Chapelle so you can see more detail in the draught. The JA/Vandalia's design is fifth from the top. You can always tell the three designs apart by the stern. Humphreys' had a classic stern with quarter galleries, Doughty had a round stern with quarter galleries, and Barker had just a simple round stern (the latter two are sixth and seventh from the top respectively).
 

 
In an interesting comment to the text in your scan, Chapelle asserts that Boston and Vincennes might have been built to the Barker draught, since the two of them are listed as having a slightly narrower beam that matches Barker's designed beam. I'm almost finished my redrawing of the Barker design, just needs the foremast and staysails put in.
 

Good scans. JA is definitely one of the Humphreys' boats like that book and Chapelle both state, built on the lines of Vandalia. I'm reposting the quick comparison I threw together of that period in sloop designs from Chapelle so you can see more detail in the draught. The JA/Vandalia's design is fifth from the top. You can always tell the three designs apart by the stern. Humphreys' had a classic stern with quarter galleries, Doughty had a round stern with quarter galleries, and Barker had just a simple round stern (the latter two are sixth and seventh from the top respectively).
 

 
In an interesting comment to the text in your scan, Chapelle asserts that Boston and Vincennes might have been built to the Barker draught, since the two of them are listed as having a slightly narrower beam that matches Barker's designed beam. I'm almost finished my redrawing of the Barker design, just needs the foremast and staysails put in.
 

Good scans. JA is definitely one of the Humphreys' boats like that book and Chapelle both state, built on the lines of Vandalia. I'm reposting the quick comparison I threw together of that period in sloop designs from Chapelle so you can see more detail in the draught. The JA/Vandalia's design is fifth from the top. You can always tell the three designs apart by the stern. Humphreys' had a classic stern with quarter galleries, Doughty had a round stern with quarter galleries, and Barker had just a simple round stern (the latter two are sixth and seventh from the top respectively).
 

 
In an interesting comment to the text in your scan, Chapelle asserts that Boston and Vincennes might have been built to the Barker draught, since the two of them are listed as having a slightly narrower beam that matches Barker's designed beam. I'm almost finished my redrawing of the Barker design, just needs the foremast and staysails put in.
 

Here's a few more pics of John Adams but the rebuilt version as a Boston class sloop.  Sorry for the lousy quality the pics are very light in the books but you can see she was a totally different design when rebuilt.

I have the full-size image opened up huge on my monitor and my face about six inches from it and three of the flags look solid-colored so I can't tell what they are (black and white and all that...). The last has a vertical stripe. It's either T or one of the number flags.
 
It is an American-flagged ship though, she has the stars and stripes flying back at the stern.

It's been driving me crazy, I've been trying to find a specific source I saw about the Dale-class 3rd-class sloops Preble was a member of.
 
I wanted to give a little background to the Dales though. They were small, trying to do too much on the tonnage and mounted medium 24-pounders initially. Later on they recieved small 32-pounders (27 cwt) to replace them. Several of the class existed well towards the end of the 19th century and there's a few good pictures of them. The drawing here is based on Chapelle's reproduction of the class draught. I've been piecing together the sail plan from the spar dimensions for Yorktown, it's still a work in progress.
 

 
The source I've been yanking out my hair to find is a report from Commodore Thomas Ap Catesby Jones to Congress informing them of what was going on in his Pacific Squadron. He complained about not having a single shell-firing gun and how most of the cannons on his ships were old (I think only one of his sloops only had the newer percussion locks). He had two Dales under his command, the name ship and the Yorktown. He said they sailed well and were weatherly and how that was a good thing....because they were horrible in every other respect. He compared their strength very unfavorably to the small British sloops and brigs on the west coast and commented that they were especially bad for Pacific use because they could only barely wedge in 4 months worth of supplies and a proper patrol in the region took closer to six. I'm going to keep looking for it and when I find the report, I'll post a transcript of it. It's up on Google Books somewhere.

It's been driving me crazy, I've been trying to find a specific source I saw about the Dale-class 3rd-class sloops Preble was a member of.
 
I wanted to give a little background to the Dales though. They were small, trying to do too much on the tonnage and mounted medium 24-pounders initially. Later on they recieved small 32-pounders (27 cwt) to replace them. Several of the class existed well towards the end of the 19th century and there's a few good pictures of them. The drawing here is based on Chapelle's reproduction of the class draught. I've been piecing together the sail plan from the spar dimensions for Yorktown, it's still a work in progress.
 

 
The source I've been yanking out my hair to find is a report from Commodore Thomas Ap Catesby Jones to Congress informing them of what was going on in his Pacific Squadron. He complained about not having a single shell-firing gun and how most of the cannons on his ships were old (I think only one of his sloops only had the newer percussion locks). He had two Dales under his command, the name ship and the Yorktown. He said they sailed well and were weatherly and how that was a good thing....because they were horrible in every other respect. He compared their strength very unfavorably to the small British sloops and brigs on the west coast and commented that they were especially bad for Pacific use because they could only barely wedge in 4 months worth of supplies and a proper patrol in the region took closer to six. I'm going to keep looking for it and when I find the report, I'll post a transcript of it. It's up on Google Books somewhere.

It's been driving me crazy, I've been trying to find a specific source I saw about the Dale-class 3rd-class sloops Preble was a member of.
 
I wanted to give a little background to the Dales though. They were small, trying to do too much on the tonnage and mounted medium 24-pounders initially. Later on they recieved small 32-pounders (27 cwt) to replace them. Several of the class existed well towards the end of the 19th century and there's a few good pictures of them. The drawing here is based on Chapelle's reproduction of the class draught. I've been piecing together the sail plan from the spar dimensions for Yorktown, it's still a work in progress.
 

 
The source I've been yanking out my hair to find is a report from Commodore Thomas Ap Catesby Jones to Congress informing them of what was going on in his Pacific Squadron. He complained about not having a single shell-firing gun and how most of the cannons on his ships were old (I think only one of his sloops only had the newer percussion locks). He had two Dales under his command, the name ship and the Yorktown. He said they sailed well and were weatherly and how that was a good thing....because they were horrible in every other respect. He compared their strength very unfavorably to the small British sloops and brigs on the west coast and commented that they were especially bad for Pacific use because they could only barely wedge in 4 months worth of supplies and a proper patrol in the region took closer to six. I'm going to keep looking for it and when I find the report, I'll post a transcript of it. It's up on Google Books somewhere.