CharlieZardoz

Thank you my friend.

Ultimately thats what ill likely do however since im still a novice-ish I plan to get a few kits under my belt before I get to full scratchwork. Even with Sultana though other than the hull everything else will be scratchwork

Mike: Just bought the book off amazon for a whopping $9 Daves: I do agree that most of the kits sold by the model companies are hardly well detailed and quite a few are fictitious, however I do believe that many are based on some sort of plan or draught that the original model builder used as a basis. It's my strong suspicion that model kit companies function in the past kinda like they do now where a company would contract a model builder to build a ship or chose from a bunch of ships already built they would ask for something like "a British schooner from the 18th century" or "French cutter from the 17th century" or something like that. Once they got the model they would likely want to give it a name (regardless of whether it's historical or not) and some sort of back story. Add to the 50 years and a few change of hands and the intent of the original model maker is all but forgotten but a little research and a keen eye and I think one can track down what resources were used. My want in this forum post is partly for my own research since many of these kits are small ships which I've considered building somewhere down the line and for me at least I'd like to invest the time in models which have a historical counterpart. As with Sultana I plan on doing thorough research on each model ship I build so as to know as much as I can about the ship's history and detailing, etc. Doing research I was able to track down (impostors) like AL's Independence which is really just the Halifax slightly redressed, or Constructo's Enterprise which appears to be off the draught of the Vixen with a few details added. But research can also help determine ships that were based on actual draughts, the Revenue cutters Alert and Ranger which are unnamed in Chapelle's books, or Caldercraft's Bader ex Pitt the admiralty draught is available online, or The Albatros or Harvey which are based off of the same plans found in Chapelle's book on Baltimore Clippers. Same as what Mike said above about the Unicorn a little research led me to the Chapman book I just ordered so in the end whether or not I build any of them I'm learning more about period ships so that now I can just look at a model like Mamoli's Blue Shadow and know it to be fantasy.

Greetings Chris! It's mainly a matter of scale I have been wanting to have a 1:64 scale Halifax to sail along with my 1:64 Sultana. I had planned to scratch build Halifax down the line using a mix of the Lumbreyard/Hahn detailing's and a copy of the Mamoli plans, however thought this kit might save me a few steps. Mamoli's Halifax at 1:54 scale is about 590mm or 23.25" +/- and the Aeropiccola kit is 530mm or 20.75" +/- so that should be close enough to 1:64. That said I'd likely only use the hull frames and a few fittings and scratch the rest so while I was curious about the kit, it may very well be more trouble than it's worth

Hi all! This might be a long shot but was wondering if anyone has come across the Aeropiccola Halifax model as I am looking to track one down.

I also think it's a good idea to pick kits (at least at the start) which help build certain skill sets. For example, a copper plated ship model like Pickle or Phantom will teach you copper plating, a plank on frame kit like Duke William will teach plank on frame technique, a ship like Sultana or Bounty will teach carving figureheads or other decorations. If your ultimate goal is to one day build something like Victory or Agamemnon better to line up your kits in order of various techniques you want to master along the way. It's all relative though building a tug may not help with Victory but it may be fun regardless

Is this the one you speak of?

Thanks ill look into it (wonder where I got Chatham from lol). With any luck some of those kits above will be represented. More books to buy then yay!

Anyone care to offer a proper explanation of what the Chatham drawings actually are? I think the Unicorn which I posted above is a Chatham draught though wondering if there is a book that has a collection of said works.

Ah now that's being harsh. What did the HMS Diana do other than sail to Egypt and get sold to the dutch? Doesn't make her any less of an impressive model but one could easily rationalize a USS Congress 1841 kit or USS Hartford both with very relevant historical significance and would make equally excellent models. I think (without trying to sound rude) that there is a bit of prejudice attached to the last age of sail kinda like the age where all the majesty went away (no more figureheads, gildings all that piratey looking stuff) and things got weird (paddles, smoke stacks and various Frankenstein ideas). I mean one cannot argue the works of art that British ship of the lines like Victory or Vanguard were/are and how they make gorgeous models but maybe I just have a thing for the underdog I happen to find all that 19th century tech fascinating as well.

I think the controversy is largely settled now. And the way the she looks in Baltimore now is a lot closer to her original appearance than ever before so really I imagine a kit could be made using original plans and reference her current appearance. I do believe that the majority of model builders who sell kits to the companies have a personal preference to ships in that 1750-1810 bracket which is of course considered the high age of sail and anything after sort of gets the shrug lol.

The Hms Unicorn is based off of an admiralty plan (or at the very least a convincing reconstruction) for the Lyme class frigate of 1748 and considered one of the first "true" frigates. But here is an example of a kit where the source is identifiable and at least there is some rationale as to it's creation though you may be right Mark a lot of these kits may be based on Chatham drawings as well. As for Constellation I am at a loss as to why no one has built a better kit of the sloop of war she gets no love, lol.

That's true Ajax should be a 3rd rate not a frigate like they show. I also think Mamoli made up a kit as the HMS Surprise and nothing to do with the historic ship but the latter mamoli kits were all junk anyway. But like I said some of these kits may have origin stories elsewhere and are then bought by the model companies, repackaged into something totally different and given a name a fake back story (like AL's Independence). While I am sure quite a few of them are total fiction a few that are listed above like the Resolution, or something like Mantua's Peregrine Galley do look like they were based on something historical so I'm just trying to track down what they were actually meant to be.

Last (for now) we have the Golden Star by Mantua. Again lets have fun with this, a bit of detective work could help determine the intent of these modeler's of yore. Also feel free to contribute other kits that you may be curious about though a few have been discussed in prior postings

Then we have Mamoli's Hunter which could very well be a generic cutter similar to the Sherbourne however again curious what plan this one was based off of if any.

Next up is HMS Lyde by Euromodel which is supposedly 1/70 scale at 34" yet looks very much like the Halifax which would only be like 19" at that scale. Another one where I can't find any info on.

Next up is Corel's HMS Resolution which I can't find any info on anywhere.

Hi everyone! I wanted to start a new topic dealing with a few weird kits I've found in my research which sort of look like they've been based on actual plans from some sort of archive yet I can't seem to find any concise evidence that they existed or are just made up by the kit companies. My thoughts are that a lot of these older kits were made by some ship builder decades ago and then sold to the kit companies who over time lost track of what plans they were based on. But I am convinced that for most of these listed some real set of plans existed, possibly for a generic unidentified ship since I have to imagine it being a lot easier to make a model based on a historical plan than just made up in ones head. So this forum is an attempt to try and determine which plans (if any) were used for these models as a basis. First up are two kits by Mantua HMS Sharke and HMS Shine. Sharke looks vaguely like the plan from the national maritime museum and Shine looks sort of like the armed Bermuda sloop yet has two masts.

The captain broke the anchor. Wasn't me I swear!

Here she is back at port at the end of the "3 hour tour" around the Chester river.

So they put me on steering duty. The ship was quite easy to steer and just feeling how much power she had as she careened to the left and to the right gave me such a great understanding as to what these ships were all about, an amazing experience

And for my last update for the night I have pics from this weekend when I booked a cruise on the Sultana replica. Took tons of pics and a few measurements with my laser measurer. A lot of the pics are less glamorous and more informative but it was an amazing experience!

Thank you so much for the kind words. I considered whether solid hull would be overall too frustrating to work with but at the advice of my friends at the Brooklyn model club I decided it was good to stick with it as my first wood model. Frames it seems often tend to need filling in especially at the bow and stern anyways and the benefit of the solid hull is that mistakes can easily be fixed with wood putty as I've removed and re-added a few parts already. The hull shaping can be seen without having to use my imagination and the whole thing will be planked in thin veneer boxwood strips so in the end should look no different. After I master this one looking forward to a frame on bulkhead and see what that teaches me.

Thank you David! Its really a matter of feeling ones way through. I need work done on the stern, I try and devise a method to figure out how to get it to look right. Others could do something completely different and if that works for them and gets them to their destination they are seeking then its a success. Just putting all this out there for those who come after me and happy to offer the knowledge. Also each Sultana hull seems a bit different. The 3 areas I am refining might be totally different on another hull. I know Chuck's version in the practicum had a totally different stern than mine

Here are a few more pics of the vertical and horizontal lines removing wood forwards up to the bow area. The lines should look even to the eye as so.