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CharlieZardoz

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  1. CharlieZardoz
    It'd be nice to fine some more info regarding United States stern details. The one painting I've seen is hard to make out and these watercolors above give me hope that there is something more out there. (oh and that Zimmerman guy never answered me back pooh!)
  2. CharlieZardoz
    Would love to see some pics of Dominica when you're done with her.
  3. CharlieZardoz
    It should be ok thanks!
  4. CharlieZardoz
    Also looking into some of the archives on this site I decided I should also add a shot of the water color depictions of the sterns from John Lenthall's archives. In it you can see John Adams, Constitution and Congress among others. I figure I'll just make this post a big info dump since it feels like so much is out there just not in an organized place. Happy to find the stern of the Congress... even if it's not the prettiest thing lol
  5. CharlieZardoz
    They look too detailed to be mere approximations so I am assuming he found them in the royal archives under whatever they were renamed to when entering royal service. Though they could be approximations such as the Queen of France which clearly says so.
  6. CharlieZardoz
    Hard to imagine only one set of plans of the Adams and Portsmouth survived but I suppose we should be thankful how much history survives at all. I always make sure to be attentive to my partner, why just yesterday we were having a serious discussion with our friend about a falling out she had and yes I was sanding the hull of the Sultana at the same time but I swear I was fully attentive and offered advice ;D
  7. CharlieZardoz
    Oh dear we boat loving nerds do need to be mindful of our significant others when plowing through historical documents don't we. Anywhoo I scanned the pics from the Coker book and this is what I found. There's a John Adams body plan, painting and sail plan (though a bit small) also diagrams for the Delaware, Providence and 1776 Boston with clear figurehead details. Based on these pictures the model above could very well be the 1776 Boston taken from admiralty lines and based on these diagrams it looks like all these ships had draughts taken by RN during enlistment. Also posted the admiralty model of the L'indien aka South Carolina showing some fine details. So overall that's quite a lot of continental frigates knocked off my list as well as a few new ones
  8. CharlieZardoz
    I wish there was some visual evidence for the Adams as well as the elusive General Greene. Enough to at least extrapolate a conceptual model of what they may have looked like (which I am sure is possible with enough research). I do appreciate the wealth of info you've added to this topic frolick thanks! Charlie
  9. CharlieZardoz
    Both ships were indeed cut down. I don't think that figure is of the John Adams since it's length between perp's is 106' and John Adams was 139'. The book is ordered and shipping and when I get the Coker book I'll scan and post what's shown in the book I do wish those figure's could be identified since those ships could very well be some forgotten bit of history.
  10. CharlieZardoz
    Thank you Chuck I do sincerely appreciate your input on the matter. Will definitely check the Lex out during my journey through ship modeling as I find the continental navy and it's history quite fascinating and enigmatic. Charlie
  11. CharlieZardoz
    I suspect she wasn't taken to RN as well. Thank you for the info and thoughts on the matter. I'll probably invest in Feldman's Lexington at some point in the future and get a better understanding of the work done. I also have a 3/16" plan set copy that was drawn by Charles G. Davis for The Built Up Ship Model which is what I suspect the Aeropiccola and Mamoli kits are using as a basis. It'll be a few years before I get to it but I suspect it'll be a fun project to research and work on.
  12. CharlieZardoz
    Well she was a purchase from the Dutch West Indies so I imagine she was probably hastily converted to a warship like many of the Continental ships were (rather than a proper naval brig). Seeing as how she was captured by the British I am wondering if official lines were drawn and if she was renamed after her capture (since I can't find her on the maritime collections website). If not this guy Dr Feldman from the Nautical Research Guild seems to have done a lot of research on this ship and I imagine his rendition (the upper photo) is more in keeping with what she must have really looked like.
  13. CharlieZardoz
    Just out of curiosity I was wondering if anyone could answer this question about the Lexington. Lumberyard/Seaways has one kit that looks rather different from most depictions of the brig and was wondering if there was more evidence towards one rather than the other. Some have poop decks but most look like the larger brig. I must admit the larger brig looks more attractive overall but that doesn't mean it's historically accurate.
  14. CharlieZardoz
    There's a really nice model of her in the Hampton Roads museum along with the Cumberland Minnesota and Hartford, that said I do have every intention of doing so myself once my skill allows
  15. CharlieZardoz
    It's definitely not the 1776 frigate in my opinion. The design of it doesn't look like a 24 gun frigate the builder probably took the plans from the later Boston as a source. A 1776 small frigate would look much for like the Virginia with 12 gun ports instead of 13. Nice model though not sure if the stern is fiction but it's believable.
  16. CharlieZardoz
    I found photo's of this model, not sure where it is displayed but it says Boston 1776 however looking at the model she very much like the 1799 Boston. Could be wrong though take a look at the plans and see what you think.
  17. CharlieZardoz
    Coincidentally have you ever watched the 1991 film Ironclad's with Virginia Madsen? The Cumberland's stern is all wrong, square like a box and with no aft cannon's lol. The Congress was pretty decent as was the Minnesota though the Pawnee looked nothing like it did in real life.
  18. CharlieZardoz
    That sounds great Talos! I would definitely like to see what notes you come up with when you get to replicating those ships. The poor Santee. Lasted as a training ship along with Constitution for so many years, yet no one thought of preserving her. It's true that other than Essex and the sloop Constellation, other than revolutionary ships not much love is given to the American frigates though sounds like we all plan on changing that I like the Java class as well. It's all part of an evolutionary line that began with Constitution and ended with Congress it all fits together and the evolution of design is quite fascinating. I'd love to see conjectures of what might have been had the sailing frigate kept evolving in a world with no ironclads.
  19. CharlieZardoz
    It's a great interpretation of the Duc, much better than that awful Aeropiccola kit. Also I'm surprised no kit was ever made of a Potomac/Brandywine class frigate/sloop. Considering how many of them were made they were kind of the backbone of the sailing navy for some time. A little re-working/bashing and you could build the set.
  20. CharlieZardoz
    I'd probably go mad interpreting some of those Humphrey's papers, though tbf with many of these ships they are probably the most viable resource there is for detailing especially ships like Congress and United States. The Essex and Confederacy to appear to have some commonality though Essex is significantly smaller. It's just that Alliance had a rather impressive career and deserves a model made of her. I can't believe the hulk existed an a shore until the early 1900's and was then broken up with no thought of it's archeological value sheesh! Regarding Duc De Duras I agree about the stern and that's sort of what I'm getting at here. Is there enough info on the Congress (1797) to make a fully accurate model of her... probably not. Can enough info be compiled to make a reasonably accurate representation of her... most likely. It's been done many times with supposedly "historic" ship models. Like Bon Homme Richard, Lexington and Enterprise models exist of them... they are interpretations but not wholly out of the ball park, especially Lexington. So thought's are the more research and bits of info gathered the more realistic a model could be made of some of these fairly obscure historic vessels.
  21. CharlieZardoz
    Very good Talos! I re-read and realize Trumbull was too greatly damaged to be taken into RN service, do wonder about the Providence having lines taken by RN though. Alliance I'd love to know what the carving details were like. I imagine similar overall to Confederacy but with it's own distinction. Warren I think you may have confused with Washington which was never finished. Warren supposedly took a few prizes before burned. Columbia I imagine it would be similar to other ships of the Potomac class diagrams from Chapelle's books I imagine newer ships didn't vary as much in details as they had fewer carvings and building was more regimented. I did find the plan for the later John Adams in my Donald Canney book the older one is supposedly in a book written by P.C. Coker about Charleston I've yet to check out. Thanks for clearing up the confusion with the Boston, wonder if the ship from 1776 had lines taken. And Modeler12 I did look over the Royal Museum of Greenwich archives though didn't see much. Providence may have been renamed not sure.
  22. CharlieZardoz
    I'll definitely look into that info, I plan on visiting as many resources with documents and models as possible. BTW I found in my Donald Canney "Sailing Warships" book the plans for the Boston class which is what the rebuild of the John Adams is based on so that half of her history is sorted lol. And if the 1799 plan is in the Coker book that takes care of that version of the ship. Also messaged the staff of tricoastal to discuss their plans to rebuild a replica of Enterprise so I imagine an inferred plan now exits. Anyone care to take on the others? Alliance perhaps?
  23. CharlieZardoz
    Frolick do you happen to know where these plans are located? I have the catalogue of the Smithsonian list of plans also checked the Maryland silver website and can't find any plans on John Adams. That's good to know they survive though I'll order the Coker book off amazon and see what it has listed. trippwj that's a nice document, like an allstar cast lol, though all those are also in Chappelle's books. And yes that seems to be the truth about the American plans being to build off of at least in the early days. Still a few models have been built like the Philadelphia for example (I know of two) so someone must have done some research and found enough to conclude what stern details looked like. I'd imagine a model of Randolph exists somewhere and some of the other contract frigates like New York or Boston 1799. I figure in time I will seek out and visit all the major naval museums and check their models since I'm happy to research what others older and wiser than I have managed to come up with
  24. CharlieZardoz
    Greetings everyone! I wanted to start a post to discuss certain historical ships where information is sketchy and as far as I can tell no plans or diagrams exist. This is an opportunity to pool together resources if you happen to know of plans or details and resource info for some of the ships mentioned please join in and offer what you've got. Specifically the ships in question I've listed below. Feel free to add more content or correct any inaccuracies to the info as this list is by no means complete just all I could think of off the top of my head. Also not putting down ships which were never completed. -Alliance 1778 35 gun sister to the Confederacy -Warren 1776 32 gun Randolph class -Providence 1776 28 gun -Trumbull 1776 28 gun both were captured by RN so wonder if plans were taken? -Delaware and Boston 24 gun ships taken by RN (there is a plan is Chapelle's book figure 4 dates 1748. I am wondering if this is the correct plan for this Boston) -Lexington 1775 brig (I have seen models and plans of this ship but are they based on actual plans taken by the RN after capture?) -Congress 1799 38 guns while Humphrey's plan for the Constellation/Congress survives and a sail plan from national archives but do plans/details exist for the specific ship as built? -Enterprise 1799 brig this topic has been discussed before -Experiment 1799 brig sister to the Enterprise -John Adams 1799 frigate broken up in 1830 then according to Howard Chapelle rebuilt as a Boston/Vincennes class sloop of war. To my knowledge no plans exist of either incarnation of this ship -Adams 1799 28 gun frigate -General Greene 1799 28 gun frigate -Columbia 1836 Potomac class frigate That's most of them though no doubt there are more, such as shame much of the info of these ships has been lost to history especially since quite a few of them had rather impressive careers like the Alliance or John Adams. I am also noticing that even with ships where plans exist I see no stern or billet details for ships like New York, Boston or Philadelphia in Chapelle's books. I'm wondering if he just didn't include them or are there no records of those details via the official plans in the national archives. Since models have been built of Philadelphia etc. I assume they were. Thanks and happy hunting Charlie
  25. CharlieZardoz
    Thanks! Got the CD today I'll look it over in a bit when I'm ready to get back into it this weekend

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