trippwj

Have you looked at the Nautical Archeology Society website or the US affiliates linked from there? Where are you attending college? Do they have a career center?

No, conoidal hulls were not a novelty by 1600, but in the 1660's the cono-cuneus curve used to develop the lower hull below the conoid was. And, I can assure you, I used the Newton ms to develop the draught that I posted.

This has been a most interesting discussion. I do not have the skills to try and replicate the drawings digitally, but have an interest in how these hull forms evolved.
Let me offer another couple of references which may (or may not) be of interest to the conversation.
 
Let me introduce David Balfour.  According to Bellamy, " One of Christian IV’s principal shipwrights was David Balfour (1574–1634). He was born in St Andrews, Scotland, and we know that he travelled abroad to study mathematics. The first reference to him in Denmark occurs in 1597 when he was awarded contracts to build two galleys. They must have been well received as in 1599 he got his first contract to build a large warship."
 
Why Balfour? Well, there are some archival records of his design process, as well as extant drawings/plans. Below are a couple of images from Bellamy (2006)

 

 
Source:
Bellamy, Martin. 2006. “David Balfour and Early Modern Danish Ship Design.” The Mariner’s Mirror 92 (1): 5–22. https://doi.org/10.1080/00253359.2006.10656978.  
So we see some use of the design drawing contemporary to the "Newton" manuscript. Of interest for the 17th Century as well may be the 1620-ish Treatise on Shipbuilding as transcribed and annotated by Salisbury in 1958.  While this treatise moves us a bit later than the Balfour works, we are still quite a bit behind the era of Sutherland. Here, then, are three more which are available for review. Obviously Deane's Doctrine is the more famous, with a very nice book published by Brian Lavery. THe other two, however, have not been transcribed but may contain some interesting tid bits.
 
Salisbury, William, and R. C Anderson, eds. 1958. A Treatise on Shipbuilding: And a Treatise on Rigging, Written about 1620-1625. Occasional Publication, No. 6. London: Society for Nautical Research.
 
While this treatise moves us a bit later than the Balfour works, we are still quite a bit behind the era of Sutherland. Here, then, are three more which are available for review. Obviously Deane's Doctrine is the more famous, with a very nice book published by Brian Lavery. THe other two, however, have not been transcribed but may contain some interesting tid bits.
  Battine, Edward. 1685. The Method of Building, Rigging, Apparelling, & Furnishing His Majesties Ships of Warr, According to Their Rates. https://collections.library.yale.edu/catalog/17268860. Bushnell, Edmund. 1678. The Complete Ship-Wright. Plainly ... Teaching the Proportion Used by Experienced Ship-Wrights ... To Which Are Added, Certain Propositions in Geometry ... Also, a Way of Rowing of Ships by Heaving at the Capstane ... The Fourth Edition, Etc. 4th ed. R. W. for William Fisher. https://books.google.com/books?id=kWpnAAAAcAAJ. Deane, Sir Anthony. 1670. “Anthony Deane’s Doctrine of Naval Architecture and Tables of Inventions Etc. - National Maritime Museum.” 1670. http://collections.rmg.co.uk/archive/objects/471544.html.   One other set of papers I have not had the opportunity to delve into are those by Thomas Harriott (Manuscript on Shipbuilding and Rigging ca. 1608-1610)   Pepper, Jon V. 1981. “Harriot’s Manuscript on Shipbuilding and Rigging (ca. 1608‐1610).” In Five Hundred Years of Nautical Science 1400-1900, edited by Derek Howse, 204–16. National Maritime Museum. https://www.academia.edu/11773314/_III_PEPPER_Jon_V._Harriots_manuscript_on_shipbuilding_and_rigging_ca._1608_1610_. Pepper provides this recreation of lines from Harriot.                                                       Website for the collections is   “The Manuscripts of Thomas Harriot (1560–1621).” 2012. Digital Edition of Thomas Harriot’s Manuscripts. 2012. http://echo.mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de/content/scientific_revolution/harriot.   Also see: Stedall, Jacqueline. 2013. “Notes Made by Thomas Harriot (1560–1621) on Ships and Shipbuilding.” The Mariner’s Mirror 99 (3): 325–27. https://doi.org/10.1080/00253359.2013.815995.       At any rate, one final modern study that may be of interest would be the following:   Kenchington, Trevor John. 1993. “The Structures of English Wooden Ships: William Sutherland’s Ship, circa 1710.” The Northern Mariner 3 (1): 1–43.   Enjoy!  Hope some of this is useful in your efforts.

The wreck of HMS Endymion lies on a reef on the southern Turks Island shoal. In one of the greatest coincidences of maritime history, she sank after striking Endymion Rock ... 
 
[Joke. Obviously, the rock was named after her loss.]

Hi All -
 
I’ve gotten a lot of questions recently about reprinting David Antscherls The Fully Framed Model Swan series. The out of print books will definitely be reprinted. But, while I was hoping it would be later this year it will likely be Q1 next year as there are a few new titles I need to get out. 
 
However, I have a good solution: I’m going to make these available for purchase as e-books, which will give you immediate access and when I do reprint them people who bought the e-book will automatically get the printed version (they’ll just need to pay shipping costs at that time). Please comment here if that would interest you. I hope to have the ebooks available this weekend. 
 
thanks for your patience!
 
Mike

From Lincoln Paine's blog:
 
This is a preliminary list of the 110+ books submitted for consideration for one of the eight John R. Lyman Book Awards in maritime history presented by the North American Society for Oceanic History (NASOH) for titles published in 2023.
 
 
 
https://lincolnp.substack.com/p/john-r-lyman-book-award-submissions
 
 
 
 

Greetings Fans of Books with Lines Drawings and Those Who have a Penchant for Procrastinating on Your Latest Build by Daydreaming about Models You Might Build in the Future:
 
First, apologies to anyone who may have already taken the time to bring any of this to the attention of the MSW community. I searched and didn't see anything on it.
 
In gathering information for a book review of WoodenBoat's 1985 edited and abridged version of Charles P. Kunhardt's 1885 "Small Craft" (which is described by the publishers as a modeler's dream, and of which a number of reviews and articles have been written for the 1/1 crowd) I discovered a link to Seglers Handbuch. A German book from 1897, filled over 700 pages of lines drawings and other illustrations, information on rigging, and a vast array of sailing discourse. Obviously, it's in German. No bother, I always preferred the pictures, even in books of my native tongue. If you follow the link, you can right click on the contents page and select "Translate Page." That way, for those for whom it matters, the headings will be in English.
 
Its been said that a reprint is available for purchase, but I haven't searched very hard, and therefore haven't found it.
 
I did visit the site of the organization responsible for scanning Seglers Handbuch, Yacht Sport Museum, and it appears to have a wonderful collection of scanned books that includes a section "Books on the History of Yacht Building."
 
I hope that many of you find these links worthwhile. And danke to the Yacht Sport Museum.
 
Peace and All Good,
Jesse

A good ol' fashioned scale rule works for me most of the time!

Hello all, just a little update.  I’m back up in Connecticut but the shipyard has been commissioned by my wife and daughter for wedding preparations.   My daughter will be getting married this coming September and the wife being frugal as always has voluntary me to make all the table center pieces.  Therefore the shipyard will be shut down for a bit longer. Not that I mind, looking forward to the wedding.
 
Air brushed flowers

From Lincoln Paine's blog:
 
This is a preliminary list of the 110+ books submitted for consideration for one of the eight John R. Lyman Book Awards in maritime history presented by the North American Society for Oceanic History (NASOH) for titles published in 2023.
 
 
 
https://lincolnp.substack.com/p/john-r-lyman-book-award-submissions
 
 
 
 

From Lincoln Paine's blog:
 
This is a preliminary list of the 110+ books submitted for consideration for one of the eight John R. Lyman Book Awards in maritime history presented by the North American Society for Oceanic History (NASOH) for titles published in 2023.
 
 
 
https://lincolnp.substack.com/p/john-r-lyman-book-award-submissions
 
 
 
 

It was articles on builders like him in The Model Engineer that inspired me as a kid.

From Lincoln Paine's blog:
 
This is a preliminary list of the 110+ books submitted for consideration for one of the eight John R. Lyman Book Awards in maritime history presented by the North American Society for Oceanic History (NASOH) for titles published in 2023.
 
 
 
https://lincolnp.substack.com/p/john-r-lyman-book-award-submissions
 
 
 
 

From Lincoln Paine's blog:
 
This is a preliminary list of the 110+ books submitted for consideration for one of the eight John R. Lyman Book Awards in maritime history presented by the North American Society for Oceanic History (NASOH) for titles published in 2023.
 
 
 
https://lincolnp.substack.com/p/john-r-lyman-book-award-submissions
 
 
 
 

From Lincoln Paine's blog:
 
This is a preliminary list of the 110+ books submitted for consideration for one of the eight John R. Lyman Book Awards in maritime history presented by the North American Society for Oceanic History (NASOH) for titles published in 2023.
 
 
 
https://lincolnp.substack.com/p/john-r-lyman-book-award-submissions
 
 
 
 

From Lincoln Paine's blog:
 
This is a preliminary list of the 110+ books submitted for consideration for one of the eight John R. Lyman Book Awards in maritime history presented by the North American Society for Oceanic History (NASOH) for titles published in 2023.
 
 
 
https://lincolnp.substack.com/p/john-r-lyman-book-award-submissions
 
 
 
 

Ok I have had an amazing day! For my 60th birthday my wife and kids gave me the Caldercraft HMS Victory!! This will be my third Victory build. My sister also painted me a picture of the Victory, my favourite ship. What an amazing job she did!! She is so talented. It was a 100% surprise and just blew me away. 
 
Cheers Grant 

Druxey -
 
I confess up front to not have the breadth of familiarity that you do concerning the designing of hulls. I noted your comment about Pett and, as I sometimes do, I wandered down a rabbett hole (see what I did there??Rabbett???) and came across a small piece, originally dated 1662, entitled Cono-Cuneus, or, The Shipwright’s Circular Wedge in a letter to the honourable Sir Robert Moray.  Since included in Wallis' 1685 A treatise of algebra, both historical and practical
 
The transcribed text of Cono-cuneus may be found here (without figures)
Wallis, John. Letter. 1662. “Cono-Cuneus, or, The Shipwright’s Circular Wedge That Is, a Body Resembling in Part a Conus, in Part a Cuneus, Geometrically Considered,” April 7, 1662. http://name.umdl.umich.edu/A67375.0001.001.  
European Cultural Heritage Online (ECHO) has an on-line version of Treatise of Algebra, including cono-cuneus (with figures) which can be found here (cono-cuneus begins on page 402):
 
Wallis, John. 1685. A Treatise of Algebra, Both Historical and Practical : Shewing the Original, Progress, and Advancement Thereof, from Time to Time, and by What Steps It Hath Attained to the Heighth at Which Now It Is ; with Some Additional Treatises. https://echo.mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de/ECHOdocuView?url=/permanent/library/H3GRV5AU/pageimg&start=421&viewMode=index&pn=430&mode=imagepath.
 
If you desire PDF (I know I do - makes the search and selective printing much easier) then that can be found here (note cono-cuneus starts on page 414, with the figures preceding the text. .
  Wallis, John. 1685. A Proposal about Printing a Treatise of Algebra, Historical and Practical: Written by Dr. John Wallis. Richard Davis. https://books.google.com/books?id=TXpmAAAAcAAJ.   I am not sure if there is direct applicability to the lower form of the hull, but his figures would seem to indicate tha is true.                

This has been a most interesting discussion. I do not have the skills to try and replicate the drawings digitally, but have an interest in how these hull forms evolved.
Let me offer another couple of references which may (or may not) be of interest to the conversation.
 
Let me introduce David Balfour.  According to Bellamy, " One of Christian IV’s principal shipwrights was David Balfour (1574–1634). He was born in St Andrews, Scotland, and we know that he travelled abroad to study mathematics. The first reference to him in Denmark occurs in 1597 when he was awarded contracts to build two galleys. They must have been well received as in 1599 he got his first contract to build a large warship."
 
Why Balfour? Well, there are some archival records of his design process, as well as extant drawings/plans. Below are a couple of images from Bellamy (2006)

 

 
Source:
Bellamy, Martin. 2006. “David Balfour and Early Modern Danish Ship Design.” The Mariner’s Mirror 92 (1): 5–22. https://doi.org/10.1080/00253359.2006.10656978.  
So we see some use of the design drawing contemporary to the "Newton" manuscript. Of interest for the 17th Century as well may be the 1620-ish Treatise on Shipbuilding as transcribed and annotated by Salisbury in 1958.  While this treatise moves us a bit later than the Balfour works, we are still quite a bit behind the era of Sutherland. Here, then, are three more which are available for review. Obviously Deane's Doctrine is the more famous, with a very nice book published by Brian Lavery. THe other two, however, have not been transcribed but may contain some interesting tid bits.
 
Salisbury, William, and R. C Anderson, eds. 1958. A Treatise on Shipbuilding: And a Treatise on Rigging, Written about 1620-1625. Occasional Publication, No. 6. London: Society for Nautical Research.
 
While this treatise moves us a bit later than the Balfour works, we are still quite a bit behind the era of Sutherland. Here, then, are three more which are available for review. Obviously Deane's Doctrine is the more famous, with a very nice book published by Brian Lavery. THe other two, however, have not been transcribed but may contain some interesting tid bits.
  Battine, Edward. 1685. The Method of Building, Rigging, Apparelling, & Furnishing His Majesties Ships of Warr, According to Their Rates. https://collections.library.yale.edu/catalog/17268860. Bushnell, Edmund. 1678. The Complete Ship-Wright. Plainly ... Teaching the Proportion Used by Experienced Ship-Wrights ... To Which Are Added, Certain Propositions in Geometry ... Also, a Way of Rowing of Ships by Heaving at the Capstane ... The Fourth Edition, Etc. 4th ed. R. W. for William Fisher. https://books.google.com/books?id=kWpnAAAAcAAJ. Deane, Sir Anthony. 1670. “Anthony Deane’s Doctrine of Naval Architecture and Tables of Inventions Etc. - National Maritime Museum.” 1670. http://collections.rmg.co.uk/archive/objects/471544.html.   One other set of papers I have not had the opportunity to delve into are those by Thomas Harriott (Manuscript on Shipbuilding and Rigging ca. 1608-1610)   Pepper, Jon V. 1981. “Harriot’s Manuscript on Shipbuilding and Rigging (ca. 1608‐1610).” In Five Hundred Years of Nautical Science 1400-1900, edited by Derek Howse, 204–16. National Maritime Museum. https://www.academia.edu/11773314/_III_PEPPER_Jon_V._Harriots_manuscript_on_shipbuilding_and_rigging_ca._1608_1610_. Pepper provides this recreation of lines from Harriot.                                                       Website for the collections is   “The Manuscripts of Thomas Harriot (1560–1621).” 2012. Digital Edition of Thomas Harriot’s Manuscripts. 2012. http://echo.mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de/content/scientific_revolution/harriot.   Also see: Stedall, Jacqueline. 2013. “Notes Made by Thomas Harriot (1560–1621) on Ships and Shipbuilding.” The Mariner’s Mirror 99 (3): 325–27. https://doi.org/10.1080/00253359.2013.815995.       At any rate, one final modern study that may be of interest would be the following:   Kenchington, Trevor John. 1993. “The Structures of English Wooden Ships: William Sutherland’s Ship, circa 1710.” The Northern Mariner 3 (1): 1–43.   Enjoy!  Hope some of this is useful in your efforts.

The answer, as so often, is that it depends what your interests are - time period, nationality, model building reference or historical reference? Merchant or Naval?
 
British navy floating walls of the 18/19th century - Lavery. Restoration Navy (also useful for merchant ships of the time period - 17th century) then Endsor.
 
I can speak to the quality of both options.
 
 

The answer, as so often, is that it depends what your interests are - time period, nationality, model building reference or historical reference? Merchant or Naval?
 
British navy floating walls of the 18/19th century - Lavery. Restoration Navy (also useful for merchant ships of the time period - 17th century) then Endsor.
 
I can speak to the quality of both options.
 
 

Die Bobrik Bände 1, 2.1, 2.2 und 3 in guter Auflösung und mit vollständig aufgeklappten Tafeln (rund 3.300 Seiten, 830 MB) sind online bei
 
Handbuch der praktischen Seefahrtskunde
 
Einzelne Kapiel können hier geladen werden:
Inhalt
 


 

Grüße,
Andreas

It is just three languages, but Capt. Paasch's "From Keel to Truck" (1885) might be a helpful resource (Digitized by Mystic Seaport Museum):   https://research.mysticseaport.org/item/l010988/l010988-c012/

Ah, it's the 'Bobrik'. Here is a bibliography of this important mid-19th century German author of a very comprehensive maritime encyclopedia:
 
E   BOBRIK, E. (1846) Handbuch der praktischen Seefahrtskunde, Bd. I, enthaltend allgemeine Vorbereitungen zur Steuermanns- und Schifferkunde.- 1-816, Zürich/Hamburg (Julius Fröbel & Co./Hoffman & Campe).
 
E   BOBRIK, E. (1846) Handbuch der praktischen Seefahrtskunde, Bd. 2-1, enthaltend geographische und astronomische Steuermannskunde.- 817-1808, Zürich/Hamburg (Julius Fröbel & Co./Hoffman & Campe).
 
E   BOBRIK, E. (1846): Handbuch der praktischen Seefahrtskunde, Bd. 3, enthaltend logarithmische, geographische und astronomische Tabellen; Tafeln zur Schifferkunde; geometrische Zeichnungen, Abbildungen und Karten.- Tafeln (nicht ausgefaltet!), Zürich/Hamburg (Julius Fröbel & Co./Hoffman & Campe).
 
E   BOBRIK, E. (1848): Handbuch der praktischen Seefahrtskunde, Bd. 2-2, enthaltend Schifferkunde.- 1809-2688, Leipzig (Verlagsbureau).
 
B   BOBRIK, E. (1848): Handbuch der praktischen Seefahrtskunde, Bd. I.- 816 p., Leipzig (Verlagsbureau).
 
B   BOBRIK, E. (1848): Handbuch der praktischen Seefahrtskunde, Bd. II, I. Abtheilung.- 992 p., Leipzig (Verlagsbureau).
 
E   BOBRIK, E. (1848): Handbuch der praktischen Seefahrtskunde. Bd. II, II Abtheilung: Stereometrie ; Statik und Hydrostatik; Dynamik und Hydrodynamik; Schiffgebäudekunde; Zurüstungskunde; Manövrierkunde; Ankerkunde.- X+858 p., Leipzig (Verlagsbureau).
 
B   BOBRIK, E. (1848): Handbuch der praktischen Seefahrtskunde, Schiffgebäudekunde, Zurüstungskunde, Manövrierkunde, Ankerkunde, Tafeln zur Schifferkunde.- 604 p. + Tafelband, Leipzig (Nachdruck 1978 bei Horst Hamecher, Kassel).
 
B   BOBRIK, E. (1848): Vom Tauwerk und seiner Zubereitung zur Taakelasche (aus Handbuch der praktischen Seefahrtskunde.- 24 p., Leipzig (Nachdruck 1975 bei Verlag Egon Heinemann, Norderstedt).
 
E   BOBRIK, E. (1858): Allgemeines Nautisches Wörterbuch mit Sacherklärungen: Deutsch, Englisch, Französich, Spanisch, Portugiesisch, Italienisch, Schwedisch, Dänisch, Holländisch.- 752 p., Leipzig (Robert Hoffmann).
 
An E in front of the title means that you can find a digital version on the Internet.

I received today “Plank-on-Frame Models” Vol.1 and 2 by H.A. Underhill. The dust cover looks a bit rotten but the books itself are still in a good condition. It’s the 4th print from 1968 (same age as me lol) and they were only GBP 7.90 both together. I think that’s a fair price.
 

 
I hope they will become a good source of knowledge and inspiration.
 
Micha