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I googled "Brigantine Leon" and looked at the various ship models that surfaced. Some very intricate. Only one had the bell attached to the pawl bitt. I can't tell exactly how it is attached, but it is very similar to the photo above in post #5. That would be your best bet. The book has Leon's port of registry as Porsgrund, but I guess that doesn't have to be the name on the bell. I didn't look through the book to see if Underhill made mention of it. From the photos, you are doing a very nice job on the model and wish you continued success with it. That calking of the deck planks looks very realistic. I built mine in the early 1970s and it sailed away from a NYC gallery. Where it is today I have no idea. Thanks for the picture of the bell from the museum. Scott

Was there actually a legal or customary requirement for all ships to have bells back then? Even today? I am not sure what the correct answer is. I looked on line for one, but was unable to find a definitive answer. There was an indication that some present day yachting enthusiasm use hand held bells which may have been used back in time. I built the Leon decades ago and did not included a bell since it was not on the plans if I recall correctly. I am more likely to accept that is the case when using very detailed plans from individuals with high standards thinking the bell was omitted for a reason. Possibly someone who served on the Coast Guard would know the answer. Scott

I have had this discussion briefly with a few gallery owners in the past. One of the benefits to not painting your art work is to appeal to buyers who want to see the joinery of the planking. This, as mentioned above, is far more difficult to do correctly since you will not have the luxury of hiding any defects with filler or paint. Having said this, the majority of the galleries customers like to see the art work in period colors. Keep in mind most of the paints back then were not purchased from your locale giant retail box stores that we have today, but were mixed on site or locale paint store provider. The shades of color can very each time depending on the amount of the pigments being used. This can lead to a part of the ship being a shade different from the rest if not developed in the proper quantity requiring additional paint mixing at a later time. If your going to use various expensive woods to show a color tone to accent the detail, then it would be best not to use paint. American Linden (basswood) would be a better alternative to use when painting. Keeping in mind not to sand the planking down to fine so as not to prevent the individual planks from being seen. Ed Tosti's excellent building of the Young America is great example of blending both painting and leaving parts unpainted to show additional detail. Scott

Chuck for clarification purposes, this discussion is talking about line that is 100% polyester and not the cotton covered polyester variety, correct? I have used the cotton/polyester line past and present and find it to be a very suitable choice. Just want to make sure the museum in question is asking for the line to be totally synthetic. The cotton covered polyester was mention briefly by one of your followers earlier. Scott

These last few posts have been an excellent source of information that is not usually discussed. This is a great example of what Ed has started in educating individuals through his various sites, books, expertise, craftsmanship, and from contributions by his followers. Very rewarding. One general thought about rigging that came to mind when reading the previous is how the extreme weather conditions played a roll in maintaining the rigging during extended voyages. Ropes must have been exposed to extreme changes in temperatures, winds, rain, and sea spray that must have played havoc with the lines. Have not read to much about this unless it was as a result of a severe storm. Possibly our sailing forefathers had it under control through experience on how to meet this challenge without having to much of an impact on a ships progress. Scott

Ed per your question earlier, the American Marine Model Gallery did not offer a particular linen brand, just type of material. The owner of this gallery worked for Mystic Sea Port at one point and the standards were actually developed the time that he was there. Published 1980. Scott

I found from personal experience that the Londonderry line is not suitable for the purpose ship modelers are trying to achieve which is weaved "scale" rope that perfectly/closely as possible matches the real thing. I am sure that it is excellent for what the manufacturer intended it to be used for such as book binding since it is very strong. It didn't stain well using MinWax oil base, but did with General Finish water base that was recommended from a previous posting. I experimented taking the line right off the real. May be it would work better weaving it into a larger line. It can still be used to some extent though. Possibly someone with more knowledge will have better results that can be shared. The DMC cotton line is impressive, but I mainly use linen which fits the museum standard developed by the American Marine Model Gallery as the preferred choice. Mainly due to linens durability as opposed to cotton. Cotton/polyester is a good alternative. There was a posting years ago on line from a leading maritime artist and restorer concerning this subject. He went into detail on the various products out there and made the statement that stuck with me to this day. And that is "not to get to hung up on this". I get his point, but unfortunately I am obsessed with quality and never seem to be satisfied. Thankfully we have the people who have become masters in the art form which we can mentor, such as Ed and Johann, whos shared knowledge has benefitted a lot of individuals. Scott

Ed I am in the process of revising the way I stain running rigging and wanted your input. I am having difficulty finding where this was discussed in the past. Would you please identify the Part number where this is posted or the page number where this information can be found in the books that you published. Thank you so very much. Scott

Michael and Wefalck that was an excellent question and answer concerning the reason for ropes being sized by circumference. I never new what the reason was and found this to be an interesting take and observation on an important detail in ship construction. Bill Crothers would always included the rope circumference on his plans which was always most useful. Thanks again for your inputs. Scott

Ed finding a final berth for our art work is always a daunting issue. You mentioned that your Victory is displayed in your home bay window. You probably are aware, but some of your readers may not be, that the suns rays can be very unforgiving to ships regardless of scale. The USS Constitution located in Boston has to be reversed each year so that the ship weathers evenly on all sides taking into consideration both the sea and sun. This is not just beneficial for the paint and planking, but also the mast which has a tendency to bend towards the sun over a length of time. Scott

I once contacted Bill Crothers concerning fairleads asking him why some of his clipper ship plans show theses and some do not. His reply was that his earlier plans had not jelled yet and if he was designing them today he would have included them. He also stated that sometimes the practice was not to use fairleads, but to lash a wood stave across the shrouds. The purpose of either approach was to help lead the lines to their respective belaying points and to prevent rope from draping over the deck when slack and interfering with the crews work. From the photos Ed provided us earlier, YA used fairleads. To share an observation, I used the two photos that Ed provided us of YA. I noticed that on the one taken of the starboard side there was something lashed to the mizzen shrouds. I thought it might be the leads placed higher in the shrouds then the fore and main to account for the higher level of the aft deck. I then realized that in actuality they were the spars of a ship in the back ground whos mast was being hidden by Young Americas mizzen. Ed thanks for the explanation earlier on how lighting can affect the outcome of photos in your shop. This was a reminder to me that one has to be careful in using pictures from the 1800s. Saw a photo once where the author was explaining how colors can be distorted with the use of photography in the past. The example he gave was a ship that he new had the chain plates and lower mast bands painted red. In the photo they being shown as bright white. Scott

Ed the close up picture concerning the sheet blocks and tacks look as though the lines/metal seizing's around the blocks are blue. Is that just the lines not fully dyed or the photo not depicting the actual color? At least that is how it looks on my machine. Scott

Ed the way you secured the stirrups to the jackstays is the preferred method at that time in history. Normally directly to the eyelets or sometimes the bar. The questioned method described earlier of wrapping lines around the spar and then nailing, was the approach used when there were no jackstays on the spar to begin with. In particular that was custom naval practice before jackstays came into use. The preferred method of mounting them to the spars, not sure if always done, was to have the jackstays placed a bit forward on the spar as opposed to center. I gather this would make it easier for the crew to furl sails without pulling up over the spar and to assist the sails fall when being unfurled. Jackstays also benefitted the crew as providing a handle when working on the spar. Whalers normally used wood jackstays and not metal. When you first look at the picture, one may mistake the footropes for wire since that is discussed frequently in the modelling world and our minds are programed to that, but I noticed a few very small strands on the lines. Your footropes and stirrups are very convincing and what you created looks very authentic. Scott

Ed have you ever experienced any problems with electrolytic action when connecting steel wire falls to the brass chain sheets in the past? Scott

Ed I have not seen a triple lower topsail sheet purchase before as describe by Underhill and used on your YA. My sources always had a double, single block or combination there of arraignment and took it for granted that was the norm without really checking. Just to bring to your attention, Underhill describes that line was belayed to the pin from the lower block, pg 164. May have also been from the upper block in actual practice. One thing that I wanted to touch base on and get your advise is twisting of lines and how to reduce this on a model. This is true when there is a pendent or purchase used in the area of braces, halliards, and sheets. I make it a point to use similar rope such as linen. To prevent twisting, I put tension on the pendent or line using my hands and then reeve the rope through the blocks when they stop twisting. This helps, but is not foolproof. You may have touched base on this in the past, but the jig that you used reminded me and thought this would be the best time to bring it up. If you were planning on addressing this at a later date that would be fine. Appreciate your input. Scott

Ed I have seen lanyards rigged with ratlines before and it is not that uncommon. The one thing that got my attention in the photos of the topmast shrouds is that you did not include a stave above the deadeyes as done with the lower shrouds. Bill Crothers shows the same setup in his plans of YA and must have had a reason for omitting it. I looked at the photo of YA that was taken showing her port side. When I enlarged the picture it kind of looks like the line just above the deadeyes on the foremast top is heavier then the rest of the ratlines. This might indicate that a stave was used, but it is inconclusive. I was under the opinion one would be used to prevent twisting of the lanyards since that is normally what I find with other vessels, but it probably was not always the case. I was just wondering if your sources indicated that was the case. Regards, Scott

Ed in the first photo I have always attached the downhaul block to the stay, not the bowsprit, and then clove hitched the halyard and downhaul lines together if both single. If the halyard was equipped with a block then I would tie the downhaul to the hook that was used to secure the halyard block to the sail. Interesting to see the method you are showing which I may use in the future on other merchant vessels. In addition, your detail in taking into account the length of rope to be belayed when no sails are rigged is an excellent point. This will also apply when the spars are set up. I have thought this through from time to time when building my ships and going forward I plan to adhere to it. Thanks again for bringing this to your viewers attention. It certainly adds to realism. Scott

Ed for clarification purposes, I had the understanding that staves were either wood or metal. Would you happen to know if metal was preferred over wood? Thank you. Scott

Ed you made the right choice in the color line used in the lanyard assembly. You can clearly follow the work to see how this is constructed. Plus we know it is historically accurate from the inputs provided earlier that these lines did vary in color based on how it was treated. I think it looks great. I have been trying to get caught up with your book and this site. I am very impressed with the craftsmanship and knowledge required to create such a beautiful piece of art that mirrors how these ships were actually built. One thing I wanted to share is that the photo of the Constitution that Rob supplied earlier got my curiosity up. Darcy Lever’s Sheet Anchor was a major source in constructing the rigging for the Constitution. I was able to find the page that was used for the rigging in the photo. The thing that I wanted to bring to your attention was that this book was printed in 1819, nearly two hundred years ago, and is still used today. What you are presently creating I am sure will equal that in years and beyond as source for historians and artist. Reading the various inputs since inception of the project it is obvious that we all are perfectionist. We always want to get it right and never take the wrong approach. This is understandable since we take a lot of pride in our work. I have found that over the years never and always do not apply to well to ship building from a by gone era. General standards of the day were not always practiced or rigorously enforced. As one leading artist told me you have to do your research and choice one. Thank you for taking on this endeavor. It has been a great education for me, as well as the additional inputs from your followers. I am looking forward to the final product. Sincere regards; Scott

For what it is worth I corresponded with William Crothers concerning his plans and this subject was one of them. In one of his letters dated December 1992 he stated the following which I typed exactly and has some similarity to what Ed wrote: William Crothers - “All rigging was generally tarred with Stockholm tar which was a solution made from pine knots and was dark brown. This was a preservative. Standing rigging was further preserved with a solution containing lampblack, tar, whisky, litharge, salt, etc., hence the color – black. The lanyards, once set up, were part of the standing rigging and would not be replaced unless damaged. As permanent fixtures they would normally be blacked down. However, some cases may have existed where it was not done – very sloppy ship-keeping.” The last few words where somewhat of an emotional response and took it to mean that Mr. Crothers was not a big fan of ship yards omitting this practice. Ever since, I always used black line. I am sure this topic will come up again when discussing ratlines. Scott

Ed is the short end of the shroud supposed to be seized to the deadeye facing outward or inward towards the deck? It looks like it faces inboard on Crothers plan while yours is showing outboard. The larger drawing next to the General Notes on Crothers rigging plan gives that impression. Was actual practice either way? Scott