garyshipwright

Thanks guys for the response. Just a little in site in to why I ask about how others are making their cannons. If you guys don't mind could you show some photo's of your cutting tools before and after. Maybe in the future some one will show how they did this from start to finish, on cutting the shape in to the tools to blacking the cannons, sort of like a practicum on making cannons. Making one cannon isn't to bad but 74 of them that look alike, ;o(. Any way thanks guys. I have turned cannons before, but have allways been impressed by some of the outstanding work on making cannons such as Alex, and really looking on trying to make a perfect cannon, if that is possible for me. Gary

Hum, figure for sure that some of you turned your own cannons but guess not. O well thanks anyway. Gary

Hi Every one. Just a question or two. What tools or more like what shapes are your cutter's and how would you go about making them, to be able to shape your cannons? Look fwd to your reply's, and thanks in advance. Gary

Hello every one and thank you very much. Sorry about not getting back to you sooner. Hi Guy. Seems my log is a whole lot shorter sir and seems that I didn't put in any photo's of building up the stern dead wood. I do have photos showing the templates of the parts and pieces and how her stern deadwood was mounted in a groove that was milled in to the last piece of her keel. there was a male part to this cut on to the bottom of the dead wood itself to help me align this so it would be center on her keel. Hope you enjoy them sir. Seems I just may have to look and see what other items I may of missed in rebuilding her log and thanks Guy for letting me know about this one.

Thanks Guys. Here's another update and this time we head back fwd on the forward store rooms. It does look a little confusing, but have added a layout of her store rooms. If any of you have any question's but take a look in Peter Goodwin book the sailing man of war, page 113 fig 4/2. A couple of items in his drawing and Montagu are diferent. Item-A is really the scuttle going down to the main magazine. He call's it the cartridge scuttle which was really on the port side across from the scuttle going down to the main magazine and access to this was in the passage way to the light room. Enjoy the photo's

Thanks every one. Seems I have been a little distracted with other things, such as life in general and figure I needed to add another up date. This time its with the bulkheads in the hold. There was a total of only four in Montagu hold starting with the bulkhead that separated the magazine. Going aft one runs in to the bulkhead that enclosed the front part of the spirt room, followed by the fish room and finally the bread room. Wish I had installed some barrels in the hold along with some pig iron and gravel that they would of used to steady the ship. One item that one should be able to make out is the pillars underneath each of the orlop beams. Do hope you enjoy the photos. Gary

, Thanks every one. Means a lot to hear from other's and their thoughts on one's work. Yarus, if I understand you right, she is the HMS Montagu of 1779, and yes that is my work. Because of the crash that Model Ship World had the log was gone so am redoing it and what you see in those photo's is were Montagu beakhead bulkhead stand today. Once I get the log caught up you will see more of her at this stage. Gary

Hi Ruslan. Your very welcome. I would say that that sounds about right sir. Have been looking for more informatio on it but have not as of yet come up with much. Hi Folks. Here is another update of Montagu hold this time showing her well, along with the pump intakes and shot lockers which was attach to the well. The well was built on the work bench and then installed in to the hold it self. You will also noticed that the floor riders are finished at this time. Another item you will noticed is the pump tubes that are resting on top of the deck beams. They were made of walnut and are still in their square state. The pillar's in the hold are also made of walnut which gives a little bit more of a color to the parts in her hold, with out over powering the other items. Hope you enjoy the photo's. Gary

Thanks Greg , Joe and Toni. Your comments are very welcome, like the others, the always help one to keep going on building their ship. Hope to add some more photos before to long. Forgive me Greg for not answering your question but yes it is swiss pear. Gary

Thanks every one. As Ed stated, am just glad to have the photo's to repost the log. I would really be in tears if I lost them. Any way here is another up date on Montagu, some thing that you don't see very often unless you are building a ship of the line, Moving past the magazine to the hold we have the floor riders. Timbers that were like the frames, accept they were installed to help strength the hull. The were very interesting to build and install and are made of pear wood. There is a set that help frame in the Ships well on the front and back and will show that when we get to building and installing the well it self. Do hope you enjoy the update, even through its the second time around. If I can find any more for this part of the build will post them. Gary

Thank guys. Does seem that it really makes one feel good about the build when good folks like your self tune in. One thing I had noticed during reposting the log is things that I was building and working on that I didn't take picture's of, such as the magazine with just the beams before the deck was laid. Several other's that I just wished I had taken them. Thanks again guys. Gary

Just one more set guys and that should bring the magazine up to speed.

Figure I would add a few more to the magazine build up. Hope know one mind

Thanks guys. Hopfully one day I have my log back even if a few of the details might be missing. Of course nothing says that we can't go back and add those later. Figure I would add some thing deep in the hull of Montagu that really brought me a lot of enjoyment researching and building. One of the most important rooms in Montagu other then the captains room was the magazine. Spending a year researching and building this was enjoyable and at times fustrated. It does seem that once I had the magazine as finished as the research would allow me and covered it up with the orlop deck, came across more research and detail that I wish I had at the time I was building it. Does seem that that is the way it goes. Any way here is a build up of her magazine. If you have any question on the what and how please let me know and will be more then happy to answer them. Gary

Thanks Joe. Hopfully I will have it caught back up in the next two weeks, at least thats the plan. Of couse it could take me a little longer. I just purchase another great Byrnes tool. This time his disk sander. Been wanting one of those puppies every since he came out with it 5 years ago. Jim forgive me if its been longer. Just might keep me in the shop, making saw dust. Gary

Here is a couple more showing this part of her build.

Thanks Mark and druxey. Here is another up date and this time we go deep in to the hull of the Montagu Once all of the sanding and fairing on the hull was done, now it was time to add some strength to the frames other then the tempory ribbands. In this set of photo's one will see the thickstuff laid out on the joints of the frames along with the orlop and gun deck clamp. It also shows that the main mast step, keelson and the limber stakes were also added. One will see the breast hooks which was made of pear fitted at the bow, but I really didn't like the dark color of them so they were changed out to boxwood, as you can see in the one photo. Enjoy the photo's guys.

Here is a few more of the frame build up.

Hi Guys. Here is another update on bringing the log along or at least a step closer to what it was. This time its about Montagu frames which was built up using some ideals from the shipwright's of old, such as the wooden templates the used to shape and cut out the timbers that made up the frames, accept mine are paper. My frames are drawn on the wood and cut out piece by piece and glued together on top of the frame drawing's like in the photo's. If my memory can remember back that far it took about 1500 hundred pieces of wood to make all of her frames give or take a couple. Guess I should sat down and get a count of how many pieces there really was but after about 500 I stop counting. As you can see in the photo's the new water lines helped on a more accurated framing drawing and joint lay out. One item that you won't see is chock's because most frames was built up not using them. I did in fact build a few frames with them but most do not have them. One might ask, what about strength, which is why one glues frames back to back to help strengthen the joints. My frames came out very strong but when it came to the framing I didn't want to take any chances so any time I sanded on the frames, i add tempory ribbands to support the frames along with shimmens glued between the two frames which was later removed. Any question just ask away. Gary Just a addition to Montagu frames. Being that I didn't go by Montagu frames sizes on the plan, I use a 74 gun contract that was written in 1781 to give me the sizes of the frame timbers. When others in the future build their own 74. Just remember this is full size measurement. Frame. It being of the utmost Consequence to the strength of the ship,that all the timbers of the frame should as much as possible be preserved from being cut by the ports on each deck, a disposition for that purpose is made on the said draught, and as a further means to obtain it, the said timbers appointed to make the sides of the ports being continued up to the top of the side, are to be framed in bends, 1ft, 2d, 3d and 4th futtocks and top timbers together as distinguished on the draught and fastened with three bolts of 1 1/4 inches in each scarph, and that the first futtocks bebe bolted to the respective floors of every bend, with 3 bolts of 1 1/4 inches diameter, that the stations of the said frames so distinguished, are to be preserved with great exactness, and for such of them as stand afore and abrest the square, and are to be canted, these also are to keep their stations, at the breadth, and what is required to give the fashion piece and beakhead timbers a proper flight , or cant, according to the turn of the body, should be done b reducing the room and space on the side of the keel and as by this disposition of the frames in their several stations, they are respectively appointed to make the sides of every gun deck port, and one side of every upper deck ports is at once provided for by them, as one 4th futtock and one top timber proper will make the side of every gun deck port, one top timber proper, and either a 4th futtock continued up, when can be got of a length will make the said side of such upper deck port is to be made by the top timber which come under the port, being formed in a cast over the 4th futtock head, and run , taking care that the said cast be so disposed that it be not cut of as to hurt the timber by the lower cell of the port, or as shall be directed. And as all ships should be kept as light as possible in her upper works, consistent with the service required of them, so the frame should not be incumbered with a timber more than is necessary for the several offices for which they may be wanted, and two short timbers and by no means more sided as the lower end 11 inches, and at the upper deck 9 1/2 inches, stands upon the cell of every gun deck port, properly place to receive an upper deck standard, quarter deck port or such other service necessary to their stations, and there be also 2 short timbers admitted to stand on the cell of every upper deck port sided 10 inches at the lower, and 9 inches at the upper end, which, with such as are nesassary to make the gallery doors from the quarters, make the sides of the quarter deck ports, filling inbetween the formost frame and Hawse pieces, the whole ship's frame will be sufficiently full , every purpose answered, and not the least occasion for more, every frame bend to be separated with pieces of dry oak in wake of the bolts for bolting the frames together, or as shall be directed. Floor timbers. Between 3 and C the were sided 1 foot 4 inches and from 3 to 15 aft and from C to N forward they were sided 1foot 2 1/2 inches, and from there aft and forward 1 foot 1 1/2 inches and in wake of the half timbers o feet 11 inches or as the space of the cant timbers will admit. To be in length 26 feet and afore and abaft as the draught directs. No chocks to be larger on any floor timbers than will admit of 1 foot 4 inches whole wood below the cutting down in the midship, and afore and abaft to increase as the shape of the timber may require for strength, and to be moulded at the heads 1 boot 1 /1/2 inches, and afore and abaft the frame, every other floor timber to be bolted through the main keel and bolts carefully clenched before the false keel is put under, by bolts of 1 1/2 inches in diameter. Lower Futtocks. In the midships from timber N to 12 inclusive to sided 1 foot 2 1/2 inches, from N to the foremost floor forward and from 12 to the aftermost floor aft to be sided 1 foot 1 1/2 inches, and in wake of the half timbers according to the room and space, the cant timbers allow, that the said futtocks run down to the deadwood, and not to have less than 6 inches whole wood there, to have chocks across on the heels of them to supply the wood that my be wanting from thence, to the cutting down on inside of the floor timbers, and that they scarph on the second futtock in midships 7 feet 0 inches, and afore and abaft 5 feet 8 inches, or agreeable to what is offered on the draught, and to be in and out, or moulded at the heads 12 3/4 inches. Second Futtocks. The Second Futtocks to be sided between timber N and 14 inclusive in the said draught, 1 foot 1 1/2 inches, from thence forward and aft 1 foot 1 inches, or in wake of the cant timber , according to what is required from the room and space of them, to have 7 feet 0 inches scarph in the midships to the third futtocks, and afore and abaft as expressed on the draught , and to moulded at the heads 12 1/4 inches, not to have less than 3 1/2 inches whole wood at the heels of double futtocks, and half timbers afore and abaft. Third Futtocks. The third futtocks to be sided 1 foot 1 inches, to give scarph to the fourth futtocks in midship 7 feet 0 inches, and not less than 5 feet 8 inches afore and abaft, that those timbers that come under the gun deck ports run up to the cell, and to me moulded at the run of the third futtock heads 11 5/8 inches and in and out at the gun deck 11 1/2 inches. Fourth Futtock. The Upper or fourth futtocks in the midships to be sided 1 foot 1 inches, to have scarph to the top timbers in midships 11 feet 6 inches and not less than 9 feet 6 inches, afore and abaft, and to be moulded, or in and out at the range of the upper deck waterways 10 1/2 inches, that all those appointed to make the sides of the gun deck and upper deck ports, be well grown young strong timber, free from sap or wain, and as the bigness of the gun deck port is 3 feet 5 inches fore and aft, and the room and space of the frames on each side of them 5feet 5 inches, there must remain full 12 inches timber from the moulding side of each fourth futtock or top timber to the side of the port, after the port is trimmed out to the bigness, and there fore great care is to be observed that such as are appointed to make the sides of ports conform in their sidings accordingly, that when the port is formed to its bigness fore and aft, not the least sap or wain to be found in the timber in wake thereof, and that all such as come in the wake of the main and fore channels, or that make the sides of the gun or upper deck ports run up to the top of the side, or at least and many of them as can be got, and that none of those that make the sides of the gun deck ports be less then 3 feet 0 inches square timber, above the upper cell of the gun deck port. Top Timbers. The top timbers in Midships to run down to the lower edge of the upper strake of the gun deck clamps, to be sided at the heel and at the upper futtock heads 0 feet 13 inches , and at the top of the side 0 feet 10 1/2 inches, except such as are appointed to make the sides of the upper deck ports, which ae to be continued the same bigness as below, or according to the room there is for them, and for those top timbers that are by being frames to make the sides of gun deck ports, the same care to be observed in respect to their bigness sideways, between the mouldings of the frames and the side of the port,, as has been mentioned of the upper futtocks and that those which are to make the sides ofr the upper deck ports, instead of such fourth futtocks as cannot run up to do that office, and requires to have a cast over the fourth futtock heads to clear itself of the side of the port for that purpose, to take care that it be well grown to form the said cast, and the cast disposed of proper to the height of the port, that the timber may not be wounded thereby, and not the least sap or wain be left remaining in the top timber in the wake of the gun deck and upper deck ports, when the ports are trimmed out, and the whole to be well grown young strong timber, and moulded at the top of the side at the run of the ribband at the top timber breadth in midships 5 1/2 inches, abaft 5 5/8 inches, and at the beakhead 6 1/4 inches, and at the fiferail from the second drift to the stern timber to moulded 4 1/2 inches, and from the drift forward in wake of the timber heads 5 1/2 inches, the frame to be disposed of agreeable to a drawing that will accompany the sheer draught.

Thanks Ben. With the hawse timbers in place, now comes time for the fwd cant frames. As I was looking for photo's to redo the log, came across some that I don't even think I put on the old log. It shows the fitting of the cant frame's but using a jig that Longridge did when he was building his Victory, in his book, the Anatomy of Nelson's Ships. You can see his jig on page 40. Mine is just a little bit different but the credit belongs to him. Also one thing you will notice is that the hawse timbers have been sanded down and are now smooth on the inside. With the build up of the cant frames, things were faired as more cant frames were added.The jig also helped me get the bevels right on the cant's them self. What you can't see on the templates is the markes for the aligning up the placement of the frames them self's.

Thanks guys. Here is my story in pictures of how I built up Montagu hawse timbers. If you have any question please ask. To give one some ideal, the were attach to each other and also to the first cant frame and knight head and then as a assembly was taken off of her stem and sanded down to shape, on the outside and inside. Made it a whole lot easier when it came to sanding the inside, thats for sure. Gary

Your very welcome Ron and thank you Joe. Here are some photo's of her keel, stem, stern post and deadwood along with her apron and building board. A couple of the photo's show the templates that were used to construct the parts and pieces.

As most know, this 74 Montagu is a sister to Alfred and is being built up right and with her framing as it might of been done. Hopfully it won't take to long to get in to her. Knowing that Montagu plans, straight from the NMM are distort I drew up new water lines and frames to help me build her. I have added these drawings to this post. I didn't use cad as some of you do but just a good old pencil and one of those drafting machines.

Here is some photo's showing the plans that I am using to build Montagu/ Alfred class from. Just to give a little history on her building, she was started in the year 2000. The first two photo's are of the Alfred plans and the next three are the Montagu stern and bow. Seems that am not the quickest ship builder but to date she has been a joy to build and research. Now that I figure out how to post photo, just one question, is the a size limet to them? Seems am going to stick to the sizes I have used before, they seem to view better and take up less room. The two framing plans Alfred and Montagu seem to be the same but Montagu seems to have added a couple of cast timbers in her 1803 large repair which I think I can live with. Gary

Thanks Pat. Seems I can' t figure out how to add photo's sir so it may be a short log indeed. Well sir seems that I just figured it out. For those of you interested in Montagu History I have attach it to the build log. Plans coming up.