garyshipwright

Hi Mark. the beeching rope is tucked some what under the cannon itself sir for inspection. That's why the tackles are frapped, that and I think it looks better then having them going to the deck and coiled. Of course there isn't going to be a lot of deck to set things on any way. I just may have to play around with the breeching rope and see how it looks in different position. Gary.

Thanks guy's B.E. your right and Remco also told me about the size, which of couse I didn't do. I did go back and changed the breeching rope along with the tackles to a right size and thank you both. The breeching rope is now .047 inch and the tackle is .017. Thanks for the infor on the gun and it's parts. As many times as I have looked at them and study all the parts to install on the carriage, you would think I should know them by heart. Here are some new photo's of the cannon but this time mounted on board Montagu . Enjoy the photo's guys. Gary

Thanks every one, your words mean a lot. After some time I finally do believe I have a almost finish 32 pound cannon. There is just a few details such as the metal hoop that goes on the end of the axle's and maybe a tompions that goes in the mouth of the cannon yet to do. I have not had a lot of time and had Chuck make me up some 5/32 blocks and hooks to rig the tackles. I tried the 1/8 inch blocks but they seem to be to small. Has far as the messenger cable I made a new one to replaced the black cable, and rigged it in place. Not sure how the two ends come together so I just may have to change that in the future, if its wrong. If any of you know how it was done let me know, will you please. Hopfully I find a few minutes to take a look. One thing that I though was neat is the small chain that hold's the trunnon key hanging down on the stbd side and it twin on the port side in place to prevent the trunnon opening up. Hope you enjoy the photo's folks as much as I enjoy building the cannon's. Now I only have another 27 to go. The pumps are undergoing maintence on them. After looking at the hoods, thought just maybe I install all of the upper part's of the chain pumps and leave the hoods off. Believe Greg posted a photo showing one of the swan ships with this set up and thought that might be a good ideal on Montagu. Gary

To add to what Mark as said, this comes from David Lyon's book the The Sailing Navy List, All Ships of the Royal Navy, Built purchase and captured. A Note on Rebuilding and on Establishments. At this stage in the story of the development of the sailing warship it is as well to clarify the way in which the two word rebuilding and Establishment are used here. The full story of the change of sense in which the former was used has been clarified by Brian Lavery, and the present author's researches have certainly confirmed the picture he has drawn. In outline form this is as follows. Up to the beginning of the War of Spanish Suyccession (1702) ships that were getting old, worn out, rotten or old fashioned would be rebuilt by being put in dry dock, taken to pieces to a greater or lesser extent, and then the good timbers reused in the rebuilt vessel. Rotten timbers would be stripped out and replace, and the pooortunity might well be taken to modify the lines, insert more frames(and therefore lengthen the ship)or to make other alterations to the shape, size or structure of the ship. The resemblance of the result to what had been there before was variable quality, but basically the term rebuild was and accurate description of what had been done. It is therefore fair to presume a degree of continuity between the ship before and after its rebuild. From 1702 this is no longer the case. Because of the need to use the comparatively small numbers of docks available for wartime repairs and refits it was undesirable for them to be occupied by a vessel undergoing rebuild-a necessarily long drawn out process. Instead, the operation was reallocated to slipways in place of docks. Increasingly, the ship might be taken to pieces on one slip and the rebuild on another, not always even in the same dockyard. Some timbers from the old vessel might be used in the rebuilt one, but in effect the operation became an administrative fiction for building a new ship. Ships continued to be described as being rebuilt into the 1740's when the pressures of a new war caused the term to be abandoned. It should be made clear the that contemporary documents then(and later) make a clear distinction between rebuilds on the one hand and Great, Middling and Small repairs on the other. Normally, the repair did not involve a major change in the ship, through there are a few exceptional cases in which dimension and/or appearance might change, and a very few when some sources use the word repair when the others use rebuild. In this work, when there is doubt the operation has been treated as a rebuild, and rebuilds are treated as new ships by being given separate entries, though it should be borne in mind that pre-1702(and therefore for all the ships in Chapter 1 and the majority noted in Chapter 2)there is a strong through variable element of continuity which diminishes rapidly after that date. Brain Lavery does give a good explantion of this in his book, The ship of the line Vol 1 page 64. Gary

Once the spirketting and water way was done I installed the 12 standand's per side according the the research I had. She really had 12 per side, and one at the stem and another one at the stern. They were used to strengthening the sides, and for resisting an violent or sudden shock. One thing is for sure, they will sure make installing the upper deck hanging knees a very interesting item to install.

Thanks every one. After doing the wale on the outside, I turned my attention back to the gun deck and started to install the water way and the spirketting. As far as the shape of the stakes, their shape came from the Elizebeth plan. Does seem that I am sort of stuck on the gun deck and hopfully once the cannons are done things will starte to move along.

Well guys, after finally getting all the gun deck ports cut in and the framing of the gun deck done I went to work on the out side of the hull installing the main wale. Montagu main wale was four strakes of 8 1/2 inch thick planks, with the upper two being locked together and the bottom two being locked together. When I mean locked together am talking about a hook anchor type of plank. Peter Goodwin shows this in his book but I also found to primary plans of it one being the Elizebeth and ,Montagues. I like Elizebeth wale and also her other planking that Montaguplanking is taken after her. Being that I don't have any ideally of which type was applied, felt safe following her's. Now when it came to the thickness of this planking I decided to do it in two layers both being applied hook anchor type planking. Doing the first layer like this gave me a chance to practice before I layed the outside layer and once it was done,it was dyed black and given a coat or two of wax. I wanted a black wale but didn't want to mess with ebony and one can not tell the difference when you look at it with ebony laying next to it. Another one of those interesting items that was fun to do.

Thanks Guys. Daniel being that the English orlop beams really didn't have much of a round up, maybe 2 inches, the rabbet for the plank's were cut on the table saw. Gary

Thanks guys your words mean a lot and does help one to keep going. As far as the next update it is the ledges and carlings of the gun deck. As with every thing else it does take awhile to get all the parts and pieces installed.

Hi Guys and thank you very much. Hi Ed. As far as the deck planking, I am planning on leaving off as much as possible accept for some that the cannon's will sit on. As far as the next item, I wanted to show the main mast partner which was a heavy bulk of timber. Most of how this part is laid out came from David's A book the The Fully Framed Model, The Swan. Any way it was one of those items that not only was interesting but a lot of fun to make.Montagu is made up of 8 pieces of wood and the photo also include parts of the chain pumps, which is part of fitting it. Hard to do one with out the other.

Hi druxey. Thank you sir very much. I did add the wear strip but being that both are pear it is a little on the hard side to see that they are two pieces. I did try a piece of box wood but the contrast was to much and went with the pear for it. Gary

On building the items for the gun deck I have uploaded photo's showing how I made my capstan's. Not quite as advance as Ed's, but am sure that several years in to Montagu life she just may of had those types. In ones travel of building and researching a ship of the line, one runs in to some interesting items such as the fore jeer capstain, and it being lower down in to the capstain room on the orlop deck. Just to give some of you a heads up on this item, while researching this capstan, most of the contracts I have on them state that this capstain was lowered down to the orlop deck to make room for the long boat. Steel shows this in his plates and talk's about it in his book Steel's Naval Architecture of 1805. After spending time trying to figure out how it worked I built what I thought was a good repersentive of it. Did they really lower this down, I do believe so, why else would they have built it this way.

After the beams were installed and fitted in place, they were left loose so I could pull them out for cutting the notches for the carlings on the out side of the ship. I also added the hanging and lodging knees to the ends of the beams and seems that it took awhile to get the pieces to a point were they could be glued in place. At the same time the bitt's were added along with the fore mast partner which was sandwich in between the knees of the bitt's. Most probably know that the cross member of the bitts were not nailed in place but held in place by eyebots and hooks which I added them. Since all the pull was on the bitts them self seems like a good thing to do and did save time if the cross members needed to be changed out.

Thanks every one. I have not given up on my log and thought it was time for another update, this time moving up to the gun deck. As am trying to do the gun ports first before adding the outside planking, which sort of slow's down things some what. I have also uploaded a photo showing a close up of one port showing how the English would have fitted the upper and lower cills to the frames. Once these were done then the beams were laid followed by ledges, knees, carlings and other items that was built on this deck.

Hi Chris. I usually don't think to much about kits but between you and Chuck,do believe you guys have it covered. I must say you have done one outstanding job on this kit and who knows even I just might have to get one in the future. Do have a question for you and it is about the small deck in front of the beakhead bulkhead. You Victory doesn't show this small platform and wonder why you didn't do the raised platform and what research you used that convince you not to add it. For me I don't believe she had the raised platform until she was redone in 1922 to return her to what she looked like in 1805. Just wondering sir and really have enjoyed going through your build log of her. Gary

Just to help out those in the hobby and new folks coming in to the hobby, here is a list of books that one may look in to getting for your library, or for those new to the hobby just starting to build up one. Weither it be PDF on the computer or hard back books that one just enjoy holding and reading. This isn't my list but one that Portia Takakjian figure would help others in the hobby. It is a list that I followed and since then have added even more books but does give one a base line to go by. Some are a little on the costly side and other's probably long out of print but do hope its of some help to you, it was for me. Gary

Hi Don. No question is stupid sir. As far as which one I use the most it would probably be Peter Goodwin's book, Construction of the English Man of War. That one seems to be the one I reach for when starting to look for information, but it doesn't have all the information and leads me to other books in the small library. I do seem to find my self looking a lot in to David Antscherl book, TFFM HMN Swan, at the moment because of his cannon detail in his book, along with a few other things, like the construction of the stern. For intermediate model builder, hum, guess it has a lot to do with what time frame your interested in. I remember when I started I picked up several to help me in the learning process such as Harold Underhill Plank on frame models, along with Peter Goodwin construction of the English Man of War, Arming and Fitting by Brain Lavery, Harold Hahn, Ships of the American Revolution and Their Models, The Colonial Schooner, and David Antscherl TFFM. It does seem that once this bug bites you, if any thing like me, you buy every thing that just might hold that bit of information that could make your cannon rigging better or making better rope. Of course here on MSW it holds a lot of that information that really makes buying some books unnecessary. It would be nice if one book held all the answer's to our question's but they don't, which is why I believe we are always looking for that next book, that and a good read if nothing else. I do remember when I got in to this hobby a list I went by that was writtern by Portia Takakjian, on what books to add to ones library. It might be a good thing to put here on MSW when members are wondering what would be good to add to your library. Also can't think of a better way to remember this dear lady for the things she did for the hobby. Gary

Hi Folks. As Wayne has said seems that am classic bibliophile, with no hope in sight. Figure I would post my small library and it may help others on what books may be worth adding to their own library. Hope it does help. Not as big as Wayne's but it fits my need's. The name of the book is first followed by the author. If you want to know a little bit about the book and if it fits your needs just let me know. Gary English Maritime Books Printed before 1801- Adams/Waters Art of Building of Ships 1719 -Allard The Rigging of Ships in the Days of the Sprit sail Topmast- Anderson,R.C. Seventeenth Century Rigging.- Anderson,R.C. The Sailing Ship- Anderson,R.C. Encylopedie Methodiqiue, 1783-1787, 3 vols plus plates.- Ancre Dictionary fo Sea Terms- Ansted Album of Colbert 1670- Anonymous The Fully Framed model . H.M.S. Swan Class Sloop, vol 1, 2, 4- Antscherl,D The Fully framed Model. HMS Swan Class Sloop vol 3 -Herbert, Greg Shipbuilding Repository-1788 -Anonymous Album DeCobert-1670- Anonymous The Wooden Fighting Ship in the -Royal Navy Archibald The Ashley Book of Knots Ashley,-Clifford W. Building Britain's Wooden Walls, 1697-1851 -Barnard,John E Ships and Seamanship -Baugean,J.J. The Art of Gunfounding- Beer,Carel De A.O.S Royal Yacht Caroline -Bellaburla/Osculoti Sailing Rigs, An Illustrated Guide -Bennett,Jenny Mariner Mirror 5 CD set -Bethell,John P Cross Sections of Man Of War -Biesty Steering to Glory,A Day in the Life of a ship of the line -Blake,Nicholas Naval Expositer -Blankley,Thomas Album Del marques De La Victoria -Borbon, Carlos de The Sea. Its History and Romance. 4 Vols -Bowen,F Scale Model Sailing ships -Bowen,John Model Shipwright, Vol 1-131- Bowen,John An Anthology,1972-1997, Model shipwright -Bowen,John 2010 Shipwright -Bowen John 2011 Shipwright -Bowen John 2012 Shipwright- Bowen John 2013 Shipwright -Bowen John Artillerie De La Marine 1758 -Boudriot History of the French Frigetes,1650-1850- Boudriot 74 to 120 gun ships in the French Navy, 1650/1850 -Boudriot The Frigates in the French Navy,1650-1850- Boudriot Naval Gunnery in France, 1650-1850 -Boudriot La Belle Poule, 12 pdr Frigate,1765 -Boudriot La Venus, 18 pdr Frigate, 1782- Boudriot The 74 gun ship, 4 vols- Boudriot Compagnie Des Indes-2 vols- Boudriot John Paul Jones and the Bonhomme Richard- Boudriot La Salamander 1752- Boudriot Le Fleuron 1729, 64 gun ship- Boudriot Le Navire Marchand Ancien Regime L Mercure 1730 2vols- Boudriot La Jacinthe, 1823, Schooner- Boudriot 50 to 64 gun ships in the French Navy. 1650-1850 -Boudriot Le Trois Ponts Dw Chevalies De Tourville 1680,2 vols- Boudriot L Aurore 1766, Pleasure Sloop of War, 1766- Boudriot L Aurore 1784, Slaver- Boudriot Le Cygne 1806, Brig 24 guns -Boudriot la Belle Expendition Vessel, 1684, 2 vols- Boudriot La Diligente, The King's Tartan,138-1761- Boudriot La Renomme, 8 pdr Frigate, 1744 -Boudriot Le Requin Xebec, 1750- Boudriot La Salamandre, Bomb Ketch,1752 -Boudriot Le Coureur, Lugger 1776 -Boudriot Bonhomme Richard, 1779- Boudriot Le Cerf, Cutter 1779 Le Batearc De Lanveoc, Brest's single mast righ boat, 1780 -Boudriot La Creole Corvette 1827 -Boudriot La Chaloupe Armee En Guerre, 42 ft Longboat armed for War,1834 -Boudriot Le Francous 1683- Boudriot/Lemineur Le Bateau De Lanveoc -Boudriot/Berti Le Gros Ventre -Boudriot/Delacroix Encyclopedie Methodique/Marine Vol 1,2,3 and plates -Boudriot reprint Uniforms of the Royal Naval, 17th 18th century-Boudriot/Petard Lost Ships Bound, -Mensun The Model Ship, Her role In History -Boyd,Norman Napier Anatomy of an Admiralty Model (CD) -Bruckshaw,Robert H.M.S Victory, Building ,Restoration and Repair, 2 vols -Bugler,A Sovereign of the Seas -Busmann,H How to Carve Wood, A book of projects and techniques -Butz,Richard Nelson in the Caribbean, The Hero Emerges,1784-1787 -Callo,Joseph F Van De Velde Drawings in the National maritime Museum, 2 vols -Cambridge Neophty shipmodeler's jackstay -Campbell,G Old ships Figureheads and Sterns -Carrton The History of English Sea Ordnance, Vol 1- Caruana The History of English Sea Ordnance, Vol 2 -Caruana Vase 1, The Archaeology of a Swedish Warship of 1628- Cederhind/Hocker Search for speed under Sail -Chapelle History of American sailing Ships- Chapelle The Baltimore Clipper, Its origin and Development -Chapelle The History of the American Sailing Navy -Chapelle Architecture Navalis Mercatoria -Chapman Sailing Ships, Their History and Development,part 1 -Clowes,G.S. Laird Sailing Ships, Their History and Development,part 2 -Clowes,G.S. Laird The Royal Naval, 7 vols -Clowes,W.M Historic Architecture of the Royal Navy -Coad,J Early Sea Painters,1660-1730 -Cockett,F.B. Peter Monamy-1681-1749- Cockett,F.B The Age of Sail, vol1 -Conway maritime Press The Age of Sail, vol2 -Conway maritime Press The Decorative Arts of the Mariner- Cook,Gervis Frere Drawing of Nicholas Pocock, 1740-1821- Cordingly Figureheads, Carving on ships from ancient times to the twentieth century Costa,- Giancarlo Ship Models -Crabtree Royal Yachts of Europ -Crabtree, R The American Built Clipper Ship -Crothers Pilots,, The World of Pilotage under Sail and Oar, Vol 1 and 2 -Cunlifle,T Anchors, An Illustrated History -Curryer,Betty Nelson Naval Architecture 1695 -Dassie Pepys's Navy, Ships, Men and Warfare, 1649-1689 -Davies, JD Ship models and How to build them- Daviess,C The built up ship Model- Daviess,C Ship Model Builders Assitant -Daviess,C Art of Knotting and Splicing -Day,C.L Nelson's Favourite;HMS Agamemnon,1781-1809- Deane,A.N. Sailing ships(Dutch Prints) 16th to 19th century- DeGroat/Vorstman L'Amarante Corvette 1747- Delacroix, Gerard List of French Ships,1661-1715- Demerliac Memoirs of the Royal Navy -Derrick Building the Wooden Fighting ship.- Dodds/Moore Splintering the Wooden Wall -Dudley,Wade G Dictionay of Ship Types -Dudsyuis Element D' Architecture Navale, 1758 -Duhamel Du, Monceau Manufacture of Anchors Reaumur 1723-1764 -Duhamel Ship Modeler's Shop Notes -Edson The New Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain -Edwards, Betty The Restoration Warship -Endsor, Richard Grinling Gibbons and the Art of Carving- Esterly, D Falconer's marine Dictionary 1815 -Falconer,W Progressive Scratch-Building in Ship Modeling (CD)-Feldman,Clayton H.M.S Victory -Fenwick, K L'Artesien, Vaisseau de 64 canons 1764-1785- Fichant,Jacques Introductory Outline on Practice of Shipbuilding -Fincham,J A history of Naval Architecture- Fincham,J A treatise on Masting Ships and Masting making -Fincham,J Outline of Ship Building,1852 -Fincham,J Laying Ships off on the Mould Loft Floor.- Fincham,J USS Constellation, From Frigate to Sloop of War -Footner, Geoffrey M. Ship Models,1951- Fox A Distant Storm, the Four day Battle, Battle of 1666- Fox,F Great Ships; The Battle fleet of King Charles 2 -Fox,Frank Sailing Ships of War,1400-1860 -Fox,Frank The Great Ordnance Survey of 1698- Fox Frank/Richard Endsor Sailing, Seamanship and Yacht Construction- Fox,Uffa Navy Board Ship Models, 1650-1750 -Franklin,John Les Genles De La Mer -French Museum L' Art De Modelisme -Frolich,B To Build a Ship, the voc replica ship- Garvery,R Royal Yachts -Gavin Naval War of 1812 -Gardines,R Navies and the American Revolution,1775-1783 -Gardines,R Nelson against Napoleon -Gardines, R Fleet Battle and Blockade; The French Revolutionary War, 1793-1797 -Gardines,R Warships of the Napoleonic Era -Gardines,R Frigates of the Napoleonic Wars -Gardines,R Heavy Frigate, 18 pounder Frigates,1778-1800 -Gardines,R The Sailing Frigate, A History in Ship Models -Gardiner, R Nelson's Ships, a Trafalgar Tribute -Gardner,D The Floating Prison -Garneray,Louis The Ships of Trafalgar, The British, French and Spanish Fleets, Oct 1805 -Goodwin,P The Naval Cutter Alert -Goodwin,P Pandora, Bomb Vessel -Goodwin,P Nelson's Victory -Goodwin,P The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War -Goodwin,P Nelson's Ships, A History of the Vessels In Which He Served. 1771-1805 -Goodwin,P The 20 gun Ship Blanford. -Goodwin,P Ships of the American Revolution and their models -Hahn.H The colonial Schooner -Hahn,H Marine Carving Handbook -Hanna,Jay S Trafalgar and the Spanish Navy -Harbron,John D Catchers and Corvettes, The Steam Whalecatcher in Peace and War,1860-1960 -Harland,John H Capstans and Windlasses -Harland,John H Seamanship in the Age of Sail, 1600-1860 -Harland, John F.H.Chapman, The First Naval Architect and his Work -Harris,Daniel G Manual of Traditional Wood Carving -Hasluck,Paul N Log of the Union -Hayes,Edmund The Ships of Abel Tasman -Hoving,A/Emke,C Nicolaes Witsen and Shipbuilding in the Dutch Golden Age -Hoving,A.J. The Staten Jacht Utrecht 1746, Sea Watch Books -Hoving,Ab Marine Art Of Geoff Hunt -Hunt,G Tall ship in Art -Hunt/Myers A Treatise on Naval Architecture -Hutchinson, W The Model shipbuilders manual of Fittings and Guns -Isard History of Art -Janson,H.W. Bound for Blue Water- Jineshsan Charles Brooking,1723-1759 -Joel,D The Great Age of Sail -Jobe,J The Period Ship Handbook, 2 -Julier, Keith Modelling Late Victorian Battleships -King,Brian The Kriegstein Collection, 17th and 18th century ship Models- Kriegstein Brothers The Lore of the Ship- Kelalbery,B Gunfounding and Gunfounders -Kennard,A.N. Portsmouth Dockyard Papers,1774-1783, The American War -Knight,R American Heavy Frigates, 1794-1826 -Lardas,Mark Trincomalee -Lambert,A Life in Nelson's Navy -Lavery, B Marine architecture, Directions for Carrying on a ship,1739, Edmund Bushnell -Lavery,Brian Jack Aubrey Commands -Lavery,Brian The Royal Navy's First Invincible, 1744-1758 -Lavery,Brian Nelson's Fleet at Trafalgar- Lavery,Brian Nelson Navy, 1739-1815 -Lavery,B The Arming And Fitting of the English Ships of War, 1600-1860 -Lavery,B Ship of the Line, 2 vols -Lavery,B 74 gun ship Bellona -Lavery,B Building the wooden walls -Lavery,B Dean's Doctrine of Naval Architecture, 1670 -Lavery,B Ship models, Their purpose and development. From 1650 to present -Lavery,B Line of Battle- Sailing Warship, 1650-1840 -Lavery,B Nelson and the Nile, The Naval War against Bonaparte -Lavery,B Ship Board Life and Organisation 1731-1815 -Lavery,B Ship Modeling From Scratch -Leaf, Edwin B. Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War, 1625-1860 -Lee,J Endeavour,a pictorial record of the building of the replica of H.M. Bark Endeavour- Lefroy,Mike Young Sea Officer Sheet Anchor -Lever,D Anatomy of Nelson's ship- Longridge,C Modeling the Cutty Sark -Longridge,C The Blackwall Frigates -Lubbock, Basil Modelos De Arsenal, Del Museo Naval -Lunwerg Album Del Marques De La Victoria -Lunwerg Sea Battles in Close up. The age of Nelson- Lyon,D Sailing Navy List- Lyon,D The Sail and Steam Naval List- Lyon/Winfield Ships in Minature -Macaffery,L Building plank on Frame Ship Models- MaCarthy,R Sails Through the Centuries- Macfie,G The schooner, Its Design and Development from 1600 to the Present -MacGregor,David R Merchant Sailing ships. 1775-1815- MacGregor,David R. The boats of Men of War- May,W.E. Frigate Constitution and other Historic ships -Maqorew Artillery of the Navy (Ed. canvas) 1758 -Maritz The Global Schooner, Origins, Development,Design and Construction,1695-1845- Marquardt, Karl Heinz 18th century Rigs and Rigging- Marquardt,K AOS, HMS Beagle -Marquardt,K A Most Fortunate Ship Martin,- Tyrone G H.M.S. Sussex, 1693 McArdle, Gilbert Ships, from the archives of Harland and wolff, the builders of the titanic -McCluskie,T H.M.S. Victory, Her Construction, Career and Restoration- McGowan The Ship, the Century before Steam -McGowan,A The Ship, Tiller and whipstaff -McGowan,A Granado, 24 gun Frigate -McKay/Coleman The Hudson's Bay Company's 1835 steamship, Beaver -McKay, John The 100 gun ship Victory- McKay,J The Practical ship-Builder, 1839, Facsimile reprint, 1940 -McKay,L Granado, 24gun Frigate -McKay/Coleman Shipbuilding in Miniature- McNarry,D Naval Guns, 500 years of Ships and Coastal Artilley- Mehl,H William Frederick's1874, Scale Journey- Mendez,Antonio American Ships of the Colonial and Rev Periods- Millar Building Early american Warships- Millar The Elements of Naval Architecture, Or A Practical Treatise on Shipbuilding 1764- Monceau, Duhamel/Murray,Mungo Naval Architectuure Elements 1758 -Monceau, Duhamel Historic ship Models -Mondfelt Spars and Rigging, from Nautical Routine,1849- Murphy,J.M/Jeffers,W.N. A Treatise on Shipbuilding and navigation in Three Parts -Murray, M Sailing Ship Models -Nance Legacy of a Ship Model, Examining HMS Princess Royal 1773 -Napier,Rob Queen Anne's Navy -Navy Records Society The Sergison Papers -Navy Records society Schooner Sultana, Building A Chesapeake Legacy -Niemeyer,L/McMullen,D Ships' Plans -NMM The Portrait of Peter Pett and the Sovereign of the Seas -NMM Plymouth's ships of War, Maritime Monographs and Reports, no 4-1972 -NMM 18th Century Shipbuilding, Remarks on the Navies of the English and Dutch, 1737- Ollivier,Blaise Traite De Construction, 1736 -Ollivier,B Naval Veneziane, Venetian ships- Penzo,Gilberto Rigging Period Ship Models- Petersson, Lennarth Modeling the Brig of war Irene -Petryes,C.W. Warships of the King. Ann Wyatt(1658-1757)Her life and Her Ships -Philbin,Tobias/Endsor, Richard Navy Board contracts,1660-1832- Pool,Bernard Danish Figure heads -Poulsen,H The Warship Figureheads of Portsmouth- Pulvertaft, David Figureheads of the Royal Navy -Pulvertaft, David Building A Miniature Navy Board Model -Reed, Philip Modelling Sailing Men Of War -Reed, Philip Period Ship Modelmaking, An Illustrated Masterclass.- Reed, Philip Rees's Naval Architicture, 1819-1820- Rees's Ship Models from Kits- Riches, Colin A Marine Vocabulary -Roberts, David The painting of the Willem Van De Veldes -Robinson Allgemeines Worterbuch Der Marine, 4 vols -Roding,J.H. The Wooden World, An anatomy of the Georgian Navy -Rodger, M.A.M. HMS Warrior 74 gun Ship, 4 vols -Romero,W Royal Yacht Fubbs -Romero,W Conferedacy -Romero,W L, Art De La Mature, 1777- Romme L, Art De La Voilure, 1781- Romme Ship Modeling from Stem to Stern- Roth,M Dominic Serres, 1719-1793 -Russatt,A High Relief Wood carving -Schnute, William J Carving Ornamentatio for Ship Models, -Short,Bill Naval Achievements, 1793-1817, -by James Jenkins Sim Comfort American Naval Broadsides, Maritime Prints -Smith,E Ship Models -Smith,C.Fox The Warship Vasa-Sculptures. -Soop,H A goodly Ship , the Building of the Susan Constant -Spectre, P.H./Larkin, D Naval Architecture,1787 2 vols -Stalkartt,M Vada Mecuem -Steel,D Mast Making, Sailmaking and Rigging -Steel,D Steel's Naval Architicture, 1805, 2 vols -Steel,D The Elements and Practice of Rigging and Seamenship,1794 -Steel,D An account of the construction and Embellishment of Old Time ships -Stevens,J The world of Sail and Steam -Stobart Shipbuilding Asstant, 1711 -Sutherland,W Britain's Glory or ship Building Unvail's1717 -Sutherland,W Lords of the East -Sutton,J Ship Modeling Techniques -Takakjian,P AOS Essex -Takakjian,P Complete Guide to Wood Carving -Tangerman,E.J. The Naiad Frigate (38) 1797 Vol1- Tosti, Edward J British Figurhead and ship Carvers -Thomas,P The Age of Sail, Vol 1 -Tracy,Nicholas The Age of Sail, Vol 2 -Tracy,Nicholas/Martin Robson The Frigates Seafarers,-Time Life The Clipper ships Seafarers,-Time Life The Great Liners Seafarers,-Time Life Fighting Sail Seafarers,-Time Life The pirates Seafarers,-Time Life The Explorers Seafarers,-Time Life The Armada Seafarers,-Time Life The Men of War Seafarers,-Time Life The Original Ships in Scale (CD) Vol 1 1983-1987, Vol2 1988-1991 -Seaways Publishing Seaways Ships in Scale (CD) Vol 1 1990-1994, Vol2 1995-1999 -Seaways Publishing Model Ship Builder (CD) Vol 1 1979-1984, Vol 1 1985-1989 -Seaways Publishing Model Ship Builder (CD) Vol 2 1990-1994, Vol 2 1995-1999 -Seaways Publishing Plank on Frame models, Vol 1- Underhill Plank on frame models, Vol 2 -Underhill Sailing ship Rigs and Rigging -Underhill, H Souvenirs De Marine Conserves, 2 vols -Vice Amiral Paris Naval Architecture, A Manual on Laying off, 1898 -Watson, Thomas H. Old Ironsides-Americans Build a fighting ship- Weitzman,D The Shipwrights Trade,1948- Westcolt,A Fighting Ships,1750 to 1850 -Willis, Sam The British Navy and the State in the 18th Century- Wilkinson,Clive First Rate, The Greatest Warships of the Age of Sail -Winfield, R British War Ships in the age of sail. 1603-1714- Winfield,R British War Ships, 1714-1792 -Winfield,R British War Ships, 1793-1817- Winfield,R The 50 Gun ship -Winfield,R The Techniques of Ship Modelling -Wingrove, Gerald A Coronelli, Ships and other craft -Witt,M.M. Architicture Navalis, 1671, -Witsen,N HMS Euryalus(36) 1803. A Plank on Frame Model -Allan Yedlinsky/Wayne Kempson His Majesty's Royal Ship -Young, Alan R

Thanks every one, hopfully many more in the future. At the moment life has sort of got in the way but hoping for some time to work on her in the near future. Thanks Ed, as soon as I get back to the cannon's I keep those sizes in mind. Daniel the carpenter´s walk did go around the orlop deck but not so much like the one you show above. There was a lot of places that was not walled in and one had a good view, of the outside wall. On 74's of Montagu time there wasn't a wall all the way around the orlop deck. Here is some photo's that show how Montagu looked. In the first picture it shows the stanchion's that separated the cable tier from the carpenter's walk, followed by the fwd store rooms and finally the aft store rooms with the carpenter's walk on the outside. Have also included the plan of her orlop deck so you can compare the two. Sort of wish I had added more of the detail on this deck,like metal work and maybe even some cables, in the tier. Of course it would have been even longer to finish this deck then the couple of years that it took. Gary

Hi Konstantin. Sorry sir but I can not remember were on the interenet that it came from. Doing some primary research on the round bow and came across it. Gary

Hi Alexandru. Sorry sir and forgive me for stealing your log and after this I will not say another word on this small platform. Hi Norriro. To me the biggest question is when did Victory received this little deck and yes sir I do agree that this little platform did show up through out wooden ships. I went looking for some more primary research on this and did find a couple or is it one and some other's that are contempory. I have added 5 photo's showing the changes to Victory's bow and one that shows a first rate with a round bow. There is a picture like this one that is the Victory but I can't seem to find it now which is why I put this one here. The main one showing a model of the Victory's beakhead buckhead after she had her large repair in 1803 prior to the battle of Trafalgar, which is what the NMM web site says about it. If you look you can see the height of the chase ports from the deck. Now if you look at the painting, not sure of its date but looking at the back ground it probably was in the 1920's when she was being refit as she was post to look like in 1805. In this photo you can see that the chase ports are not at the same height as in the first picture which is probably due to the raised small platform. This is the time that I believe they strip away the round bow and tried to give her that 1805 look but the model shows what it really was post to look like in 1805. Her beakhead I don't belive is right if you compare the two. Also I added a painting not sure of the date but shows Victory breaking the French line with the same beakhead bulk head. I do believe as you said because her bow was all shot up, that when she was repaired do believe that is when she got her round bow, just like the older ship in the picture. The model also shows how the upper wale, stop short of the stem and ends under the aft part of the main rail. Could be total wrong sir but does give food for thought, and has been interesting. Thank you. Gary

Hello Alexandru. I know this has been brought up before but just some food for thought on the beakhead bulkhead raised platform. For me I don't think that Victory or other 90 to 100 gun ships had this platform. My reason are that plans of the Victory as well as others such as the Princess Royal of 1773,Ville de Paris of 1788, don't show this raised platform. My thinking is that the raised platform didn't come about on Victory till after they redid the bow turning it in to a round bow minius the whole beakhead itself. The upper deck went all the way fwd and was even with the main rail of the head work making ever thing on a even keel. There really was't any need for this small raised platform. Once the Victory bow was redone, as she looks today, it show's the beakhead buckhead, along with the raised platform. Do believe that some of the authors that has been posted,do not show the small platform because plans and other primary reseach doesn't show this. Here are some photo's of the plans I have of Victory going back to her first drawing which came from the Danish NMM. Also one from the English NMM and one out of Bugler book. One thing you will noticed is the primary plan doesn't show the small platform. You will also notice the plan of Victory with all of her carvings also doesn't show this small deck. It's not till you see the plan by Buglar that shows this. This might also explain why the round houses and collums go down two feet more. I have also added a photo of Alfred that does show the raised platform which was a common item on ships of 74 guns. It seems that if they had this raised platform it seems that primary plans would show this. If you look in Rob Napier book Legacy of a Ship model, on page 89, 90,91 and 92 how it shows the upper deck going all the way fwd and no small raised platform. Do hope that this is some food for thought on this small raised deck that raises a lot of question about did she or didn't she. Some food for thought sir. Gary

Well has others have said, all kinds of things can be used for faring one's hull. I have used a drill and dremel with sand paper type flapper brushes, flat and curve pieces of wood with sand paper cement to it, metal scrapers and curved rasps. One can also use a mouse type sander that comes to a point in getting in to tight places. One item that seem to have help me a lot with fairing the inside of the bow and stern of Alfred's frames was broken glass used like a scraper. I know but it worked and didn't get cut once. Take a piece of picture glass, cover it with a towel and with a hammer tap the glass. You will be surprised at how many different shapes you will get for fairing the inside of the frames, and once it becomes dull, just get another piece. :piratetongueor4: Gary

Hi Jay. According to Adrian Caruana's in Vol 2 page 151/152 The 6 pounder was 6 foot 6 inches long and was a Armstrong-Frederick design of 1760. In 1787 there was also a 6 pounder that was 6 foot long and was of the Blomefield design which is on page 270. In 1809, the carron company cast a 6 pounder of the Blomefield pattern that was 7 foot 6 inches long which is on page 318. Jay as far as I know the British Admiralty didn't have control of the guns, it was the Ordnance board, so if there was any changes it would have came through them. From reading about this, at least to me it was like the navy just sort of rented the guns from them. If you was to do any searching on weapons you would have to look under the WO and if it had some thing to do with ships you would look under Adm, that is if you was to go to the Public Record's office, Kew and Chancery Lane, London. Gary.

Well I did find a picture of how the coat fit around the rudder head Danny but do believe that druxey has already beat me in explaining it.;o) If you look in Vol 2 of David A book you will see it on page 289. Gary