leclaire

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/north-dakota-drought-exposes-130-year-old-shipwreck-abner-oneal/

Hi Bob!
Never thought of Michigan State colours! My red will not be Bucky Badger Red but a dark oxide red like a hull red so the people in Madison will still not approve. LOL
 
Cathead,
Here is the best Paul L. photo postcard that I own for deciding to use canvas on the boiler deck.  You can definitely see the deck planks on the main deck, but the boiler deck - especially around the stacks and by the railings - looks just like the covered hurricane deck.  The other issue is what colour the boiler and hurricane decks should be.  I know the article referred to the "decks", as in plural, being red, but everything I have seen and read seems to point to a grey colour and not red.  Again, any input would be greatly appreciated.

 
Hi Keith! Welcome aboard! Hope you find this interesting. 
 
I am still working on planking the main deck.  I have mocked up some Scotch Marine boilers and finished off the boiler pit, since Thistle's boilers were located within the hull and not on the main deck. I need to make certain the stacks line up through the boiler deck.  I have struggled somewhat in portraying the coal in the bunkers but I think I have a reasonable approximation.  I do not have the measurements of any of the boilers used in Thistle.  Similar Ryan built boats did have two 4' by 12' boilers, so that is what I am using.  [The Paul L. had  a single 9' diameter boiler that was described as the largest Ryan installed boiler at the time.]   In a really odd twist, a boiler from when Thistle was scrapped ended up in an Oshkosh school.  There was a real bad newspaper photograph of that boiler when the school was demolished in the 1960s. I would loved to have had a clear and usable photo.
 
The decking will take a few weeks as I attend to family duties.

I don't know, that paint scheme so far looks like Michigan State Spartan green and white. You may have some explaining to do to the folks in Madison. 😜
 
All kidding aside, very nice indeed.
 
Bob

Over its 21-year lifespan, Thistle had numerous paint schemes. Unfortunately, black and white photos, “colorized” postcards of dubious accuracy and generalizations of “light colors” help little in arriving at accurate paint schemes.
 
Luckily, the May 6, 1907 Oshkosh Daily Northwestern newspaper (via Newspapers.com) presented that:
” decks being colored red, the hull in sea green, the cabins in grey and the rails and stairways in white.” By that time, the hull below the waterline was covered with two coats of boiled linseed oil instead of paint.  This will be my paint scheme for Thistle.
 
On how paint was made, according to Donald Jackson in his Voyages of the Steamboat Yellow Stone [Ticknor & Fields, 1985]
“Because all paints were mixed on the job by adding various pigments to white lead or linseed oil, the order called for lampblack, bluish-green verdigris (a copper compound), red litharge (a lead compound), yellow ochre, copal and Japan varnishes, and, of course, turpentine in large quantities.” For my model, the sea green that was used is comparable to the sea green used in the pilothouse of S. S. Moyie.  The grey will be comparable to the original grey paint on the Steamboat House at Marble Park in Winneconne, Wisconsin.  The red will be a darkened red more period specific than the bright reds now seen on current sternwheelers. Boiled linseed oil was used on the hull below the waterline.  Interior main deck colors will be white upper and a yellow lower.  The yellow will be comparable to the yellow on steamboat relics in the Steamboat Graveyard across from Dawson City. 
 
Thistle was described as having between 3 to 3 ½ feet of draft. There is a side profile of Paul L. at the Oshkosh Public Museum site that shows what the bottom and sides of Paul L. looked like. I would expect that Thistle would have looked much the same.  Note the photo of the Paul L. was from after the May 1910 capsizing as there are now straight stacks unlike the earlier “Thistle Like” stacks that had rings at the top of the stacks.  The link, if you should so desire:
 
Steamboat Paul L. - P1182.119 (pastperfectonline.com)
 
I gave the bottom of Thistle’s hull the historical description of two coats of boiled linseed oil and nothing else.  This looks like uncolored varnish. The photo of the Paul L. shows a much darker bottom.  By that time Paul L. would have been in service nearly three years and the bottom would have been much dirtier.  I suppose that I could have aged Thistle’s bottom to reflect that aging.
 
The sides, the guards and the rudders were spray painted Ocean Green.  The underside of the main deck planks over the guards will be this same color. I was not concerned about the overspray as the deck planks will cover this. There are colorized postcards of Thistle that show green bottom or sides that are close to that ocean green.  Again, artistic license may have impacted the colors chosen on the postcards.
 
This is what the model looked like after the hull was painted.  I was uncertain about the cylinder timbers so I painted them white.
 

 

 
There is always a discussion of tarpaper or canvas on decks. The birds eye photos of Thistle and Paul L. provide no clarity as to which was used. There are photos of Yukon steamboats where canvas was being laid. The S. S. Moyie described where canvas would last about five years on the decks, and several layers were present on the decks when the boat was renovated. Canvas was used on Thistle on the main deck above the bulwarks for shading so it was already in use on the boat.    “Canvas, painted and sanded” will be used instead of tarpaper.
 
I know that a covering was used on the hurricane deck based upon both Thistle and Paul L. photo postcards. In the capsized Paul L. photo postcards, the main deck was left uncovered.  The Paul L. boiler deck seemed to have been covered. The much smaller boiler deck was also covered on Moyie.
 
I would appreciate input from others on whether the boiler deck should have been covered or not.  I know most models show this of not being covered so if I were to cover the boiler deck that would be a huge departure from the norm.   I am trying to get more photos of the capsized Paul L. to try and provide more clarity. 
 
The main deck is next up. This will take some time.

To create the guards, I used the photos from the capsized Paul L. The outrakers were placed at a scale 22 inches on center.  I created a jig, which is seen in the bottom center of the photo below, to be consistent in placing the distances. The outside planks (no idea what these were called) were affixed to the underside of the outrakers and the inner rubbing strake. The cylinder timbers had to be added at this point to complete the guards.  I always tried to think several steps ahead in order to prevent rework or creating much more difficult processes. I was not always successful in this endeavour.
 
This is a shot of the work in process. 


 
This is what the final result looked like. 


 
The two balanced rudders replicated what was on the Oshkosh Museum stern photos. 
This is where I had one of my “should have thought farther ahead” moments. The transom needed have a section removed between the cylinder timbers to accommodate the eventual pitmans.  And the transom needed to have a section removed between the rudder stops for the rudder tillers.  I chose to have the tillers beneath the main deck. I had seen some sternwheelers that had the tillers on the main deck (which used up a lot of usable deck space) or placed under the boiler deck. In this latter case the rudder post had to extend up between the transom and the false transom. This method affected the main deck if it extended beyond the transom to the false transom. 
 
This is a photo of the rudders and rudder stops before: final finishing, being secured, gudgeons & pintels added, or painting. I had also drawn a temporary waterline


 
I now need to paint the hull before starting on the decking and stationaires.
 
 

Nuclear submarines are steamboats (with a low carbon footprint) after all

I had not planked a hull in a long time and it showed. 
 
Unlike Chaperon, Bertrand and others that had bottom planks that were flat, Thistle had planks that bent at the stem and stern, not unlike a clipper ship. Thistle did have bottom planks that were considerably wider than the side planks as noted in the Paul L photos.  Thistle’s actual bottom planks were made of oak, and the side planks of Eastern white pine.   Paul Ls. bottom planks were made of Cyprus and the side planks Douglas fir. Keels of both were local oak. The 1894 Thistle was able to use local wood but the supply was depleted by the time of the 1907 Paul L.
 
Initially, I tried just tapering the planks. Huge mistake.  I removed the mistake and decided to do it the correct way with spiling the planks.  I referred to Model Ship World articles on the process and consulted a 1980s vintage book that I owned on planking. 
 
I used poster board to create the templates for each row of planks. That was much easier to bend and trim than the actual basswood planks.  One template could be used for both the port and starboard side.  It was heartening to discover that my hull was symmetrical.   The wood planks still required beveling the edges and bending. 
 
My keel frame did not have the stem post attached.  Instead of cutting in the rabbits, I ran a 1/16 square stock from stem to stern on the keel frame.  The planks then abutted this.  The frame at the stem was tapered to meet the 1/16 square stock and the ends of the planks tapered to meet the square stock.  After the hull was planked, I ran wider stock over the smaller square stock on the bottom to portray the keel that Thistle had.  A stem post was added. The stern had a curved stock to follow the spoon shaped stern.
 
 In this photo, I had just started the correct planking process.  Note the line demarcations on the frames where the individual planks were to be affixed. I started with  few planks by the sheer strakes to add stability. I then went down to the keel and garboard strake and planked from there up.  
 

 
The second product looked much better than the first try.
 

 

 
Off to building the guards and rudders.

Hi Bob & Roger!
 
I am back.  
 
I really struggled with the hull. 
 
I also have an admission: the planked hull is complete and I am currently working on the guards and rudders. I will go through my process, my mistakes and reworks.  I wanted a complete hull before I started my post because I had no idea how long it was going to take or how many blind alleys I would follow.  Both were time and mistakes were considerable.
 
Creating the hull for the Thistle included two main sources.  The hull sheer came from Thistle photos. But I had no idea what the hull was like below the waterline. Instead, I used Paul L. photos as capsized to create the water and rib lines. Thistle and Paul L. had virtually identical hull dimensions, had the same builder (Ryan) and the same owner when the Paul L. was built (LeFevre).   
 
There are several photos that I found the helpful in creating the hull.

 
This is the bow of the Paul L. while under construction.  George Ryan is the man in the center.  Note the massive stempost (Thistle’s was even larger), the bow frames were not canted, and beginning with the 7th frame, the frames are doubled up to the water line.  This construction was typical for Ryan based upon accounts of other Ryan built boats. Reprinted with permission Neenah (Wisconsin) Historical Society.
 

A bow photo that shows the flat bottom, a true keel, rounded futtocks, and a sharp model bow. Reprinted with permission Neenah (Wisconsin) Historical Society. There are several other bow shots that I consulted during the build. I also own several postcards of the capsized Paul L.
 
There are two Paul L. stern photos from The Oshkosh (Wisconsin) Public Museum – the links are provided below. I was not timely in requesting permission to reprint here but the links will bring you to the low-resolution photos. Note the balanced rudder, the Ryan “spoon shaped stern” described in period articles, paddlewheel detail and other items.  The museum has high quality digital jpg’s for purchase, which I did purchase.   The enhanced digital photos are clear enough to permit the number of planks to be counted. This was incorporated into the model.  You could also see many of the bolts which held the planks to the frames.
 
Steamboat "Paul L " Capsized - FP2003.20.734 (pastperfectonline.com)
 
Steamboat "Paul L " Capsized - P6767.2 (pastperfectonline.com)
 
Interestingly, the barged-out hull of the Paul L. lies under water in the Fox River between locks 2 & 3 in Appleton. It was dived on by scuba divers and a video created in about 1995.  The green mossy hulk was interesting but not helpful in the build.  A quarter century later I was not willing to have more scuba divers hopefully locate and once again dive on the wreck.  The video, should you like review it, is located at:  https://archive.org/details/WiscRiverboats
 
I consulted Bertrand’s lines to help me.   John M. Sweeney’s contemporary River Practice of the West from the Transactions of American Society of Mechanical Engineers (Volume IX) provided lines and hull cross sections.  Circa 1890’s, I am lucky enough to have an original copy of this. The Institute of Nautical Archeology has a whole series  of Yukon sternwheeler articles.  In many respects, Fox and Yukon boats were very similar. 
 
My first step was to build a full-scale rough bulk head hull model using architectural foam and balsa.  Many, many iterations and adjustments later, I sliced it into sections to create the frames.  I decided to build a plank on bulkhead hull for the model instead of using actual individual frames like the real hull would have used.  My generated frames did not line up with where the expected actual frames would have been. But I will be able to take the lines off of the plank on bulkhead hull should I decide to build another Ryan sternwheeler. But not now.
 
This is what the completed framing looks like.  The open, boxed in area is for the boiler. Ryan used Scotch Marine boilers located within the hull instead of Western River boilers which were typically placed on the main deck. I tried using bulkheads with a cutout for the boiler but those were incredibly weak and I broke numerous ones before I used this box layout.
 

 
Photos of the hull of the Yukon sternwheeler Gleaner show how the supports for a boiler installed in a hull looked.   You can find the Murray Lundberg photos posted at http://explorenorth.com/library/ships/bl-gleaner.htm
 
A bit of a diversion here. Gleaner’s machinery came from the Marine Iron Works of Chicago USA (MIWC).  MIWC provided actual blueprints for building the sternwheeler when all the machinery was provided by them.  So, the remains may be from a set of those blueprints – which I have been unable to locate.  Alternatively, MIWC also provided a compete hull in knockdown form which was then sent to the owner along with the machinery and blueprints.  The owner then reassembled the hull.  
 
The next section will cover how I planked the hull.
 
 

I too just found your build log. Very much looking forward to following along as steamboats are a particular interest of mine.
 
Bob

Interesting to say the least.  You might be right about the shorter breaching rope. It wouldn't need to come back too far and the "training tackle" would be used to adjust the azimuth.  A 30 to 32 pound shot wouldn't be a problem doing it that way although the gunners would be more exposed to small arms fire.
 
If it were one of the 75 (?) or 100 pounders that probably would be a problem.   I'm trying to remember where I saw it but some of those vessels had "armored" hatches which were closed for loading.   Could have been one of the builds here or maybe out at the Warfare History Network.   It might have even been at Fort Donaldson (which I visited many times a few decades ago) as plunging fire did a lot of damage to the ironclads as they were armored on top.  

Don, Pat, Steven, Gary & Eric, Thank you so much for the kind comments. I appreciate your continued support.
 
 
Mark,
 
Thanks for the kind comment and not to worry about asking about the breech ropes, this is an interesting question which could possibly use some  more discussion. While they do look like they are somewhat short, I based my rig on some of the research pictures that I found on how the 19th century naval guns were rigged. Most of the ones that I found show breech ropes that look like they barely allow for clearance to reload after recoil, most of these navy ships had almost vertical gun ports. Since the gun ports on these Iron Clads were sloped at 35° angles (port and starboard sides) & 45° angles (fore and aft sides), I would guess that this drastically reduced the amount of clearance for reloading. I'm wondering if the breach ropes were just used to keep the guns from recoiling too far back given the limited space on the gun deck and were only used to keep most of the strain off the smaller ropes and blocks of the running rigging and the running rig was used to run the guns in and out for reloading. Many of the examples I used show fairly short breech ropes.
 
One of the examples that I used can be found here at this link. This was a drawing that I had found a while back and Eric posted the link in a previous post. It is a beautiful break down of the Cairo showing the artists interpretation of what she may have looked like on the interior as well as a breakdown of her guns.  
 
Now I do have to admit that I did reverse the eyebolts for the running rig and the breech ropes since with the sloped sides it made it impossible for me to install the keeper pins for the breech rope anchors, so they had to be placed through the gun ports. A minor deviation that hopefully will not be noticed too terribly much. I am also not 100% sure that I did get the lengths right due to my interpretation, this was just my best guess. However you have got me to thinking more and more about it and I may need to go back and revisit some of my research. 😁
 
-Brian

Hello again everyone,
 
Back with another update, this time with more to report.
 
Before I start though, I wanted to show a couple of acquisitions I recently purchased. First is a little reading material I found "What Finer Tradition: The Memoirs of Thomas O. Selfridge, Jr., Rear Admiral U.S.N". Thomas Selfridge Jr. was Captain of the Cairo at the time of her sinking. Along with the book I have an autograph of Rear Admiral Thomas O. Selfridge Jr. himself.
 
A big thank you Keith Black for sending me the info for the autograph, this will make a nice addition to incorporate into the display when I am finished.
 

 
 
Now on to my accomplishments since the last update.
 
First up was work on more of the steam plumbing. Before I was able to complete the plumbing, there were a couple of things that needed to be done first. Since the some of the steam exhaust plumbing is attached to the smokestacks I was going to have to install the boiler. But before I could do that I had to verify all the wiring was good and the lights worked since the wiring was all under the boiler assembly.
 
Testing out the lighting.

 
...and everything seems to work. And yes the pictures are a little out of order, since I forgot to take the pictures of the lighting before the plumbing was done.

 
 
So starting the plumbing, I needed the four exhaust pipes, two of which ran from each of the pre-heaters to the smokestacks and out into the wheel house.
 
This part was one of those projects where I felt like I painted myself into a corner, since there were several walls that needed to be in place before running the pipes, and also needed to be in place to line up the holes. For the piping, I again used styrene rods. This material is so easy to work with and coupled with the heat shrink rings, gives the perfect illusion of pipefittings.
 
Rearward exhaust pipes.

 
Forward running pipes going in. I worked out a solution to be able to run the plumbing through the bulkheads without having to build all of the interior walls. I used a couple of short pieces of brass tubing to form a coupling between the boiler room bulkhead and the engine room bulkhead. This allowed me to insert one short piece from the pre-heaters to the couplers and the longer piece can go the length of the boilers to the smokestacks. The coupler also functions as a heat shield against the timber walls.
 
Since none of this plumbing survived the recovery, this was another build that I used my best judgment on and some builders liberties. I used the drawings that the guys building the St. Louis used as my design (I didn't post that picture here since the picture belongs to their build log but if you would like to take look at it it, the drawing can be found at the following link, post #21).
 
 
 
Before the couplers were added. I wasn't able to make the multiple bends in the styrene rods and get everything lined up properly.

 

 

 

 
 
Couplers added.

 

 

 

 
All painted and in place.

 

 

 

 
 
Next up was finishing up on the bollards. These have been in place for a while, but it was time to get them finished up and painted. I used some of the aluminum foil tape to make caps for the timbers to prevent them from prematurely rotting from water penetrating the exposed end grain.
 
First cap in place.

 
All timbers capped.
 
 
Painted up.

 
As of this posting, I realized that I didn't take a picture of the finished bollards in place. I'll see if I can remember to take some and post them in the next update.
 
Next up was the placement of the inside gunwales (I'm guessing that is the proper term for them on this type of boat) along with the eyebolts for the cannon rigging.

 
Waterways added to the bottom.

 
Port and Starboard sides in place, painted and varnished.

 
 
Next on the list was the construction of the Pittman arms. Very little of these will be seen, but I wanted to put some detail in them without going overboard.

 

 

 

 

 
 
Finally for this update, was the rigging of the first cannon. I started with the aft cannons, the 30 pound Parrot Rifle and 32 pound Smooth Bore due to their placement and accessibility. These need to be installed before I can complete the Captains quarters due to the confined space available. As it is, these were a royal pain to get the outboard rigging in place. The first cannon I completed was the 30 pound Parrot Rifle.
 
I started the rigging in my casemate mockup to get the correct lengths on the ropes. 

 

 
Breech ropes in place.

 
Ends seized.

 
Photoetched hooks for the blocks and running rigging.

 

 
Forward assist ropes in place.

 
Now the fun part, placing them in their ports.

 

 
Rear assist rigging in place.

 
One final picture, I am not sure what happened here, but I can promise you  the cannon is not bent. I guess it is all in the lighting, but I just wanted to get a view of the cannon in it's port.

 
If I may, I have to give plug to Chuck over at Syren Ship Model Company for the outstanding quality ropes, hooks and blocks I used for the cannon rigging. He doesn't fool around on getting them shipped to you either. From ordering to my mailbox was about three days. Thanks Chuck!
 
That is all I have for now. I am going to finish up on the 32 pound smooth bore, more of the internal walls, and the crank arms for the next update.
 
Thank you all for stopping by and the kind comments and likes.
 
Until next time, please stay safe and well.
 
-Brian


 

I too just found your build log. Very much looking forward to following along as steamboats are a particular interest of mine.
 
Bob

I too just found your build log. Very much looking forward to following along as steamboats are a particular interest of mine.
 
Bob

Brian - I admire your idea of "slow progress" and "not getting much done". It sure looks to me like you made a whole bunch of progress.
 
Regarding your decision to paint the inside edges of the viewing ports red, you might want to consider painting them more of a maroon color rather than bright red. I agree the red would tend to detract from the overall look and using a maroon would make it more of a weathered presentation. Just a thought.
 
Bob

Hello everyone,
 
Looking for an opinion here. I painted up the cutaway edge with the reddish-brown I used for the hull. I’m liking the color and think it provides a nice separation from the black paint and the natural wood color of the frames. I just thought I’d throw this out there to see what everyone else’s thought. 
 

 
 
 

 
Please feel free to chime in, I always welcome constructive criticism. 
 
-Brian

Brian - I admire your idea of "slow progress" and "not getting much done". It sure looks to me like you made a whole bunch of progress.
 
Regarding your decision to paint the inside edges of the viewing ports red, you might want to consider painting them more of a maroon color rather than bright red. I agree the red would tend to detract from the overall look and using a maroon would make it more of a weathered presentation. Just a thought.
 
Bob

Brian - I admire your idea of "slow progress" and "not getting much done". It sure looks to me like you made a whole bunch of progress.
 
Regarding your decision to paint the inside edges of the viewing ports red, you might want to consider painting them more of a maroon color rather than bright red. I agree the red would tend to detract from the overall look and using a maroon would make it more of a weathered presentation. Just a thought.
 
Bob

Wow, that looks great. You're definitely right about the paint bringing out the realistic look. Nice job on the texturing. I like the idea of a dark/rusty maroon, something that sets off the edge a little but doesn't highlight it.
 
I found a detailed painting of the Cairo's interior on another modeling forum in a log for the BlueJacket kit. Not going to directly post it here as I'm not sure about copyright issues (not even sure if it's from the kit or some other source), but here's a link. It's a bit grainy, but appears to show gun rigging that looks fairly standard for naval cannons. If it is from the kit, I wonder if you could source a good copy directly from BlueJacket? If nothing else, I bet they'd be willing to discuss their own research used to develop that kit and maybe help you find new information?

Brian - I admire your idea of "slow progress" and "not getting much done". It sure looks to me like you made a whole bunch of progress.
 
Regarding your decision to paint the inside edges of the viewing ports red, you might want to consider painting them more of a maroon color rather than bright red. I agree the red would tend to detract from the overall look and using a maroon would make it more of a weathered presentation. Just a thought.
 
Bob

Brian - I admire your idea of "slow progress" and "not getting much done". It sure looks to me like you made a whole bunch of progress.
 
Regarding your decision to paint the inside edges of the viewing ports red, you might want to consider painting them more of a maroon color rather than bright red. I agree the red would tend to detract from the overall look and using a maroon would make it more of a weathered presentation. Just a thought.
 
Bob

Brian - I admire your idea of "slow progress" and "not getting much done". It sure looks to me like you made a whole bunch of progress.
 
Regarding your decision to paint the inside edges of the viewing ports red, you might want to consider painting them more of a maroon color rather than bright red. I agree the red would tend to detract from the overall look and using a maroon would make it more of a weathered presentation. Just a thought.
 
Bob

Very happy for you, Eric. All the thought, research, hard work, and attention to detail you put into the Arabia certainly paid off. In addition, along the way you provided an entertaining education not only on scratch building but the history of steamboats in general. I know I certainly came away the better for following your build log.
 
Bob

Brian - thanks for showing the screw up with your drill. I was beginning to believe you never made a mistake like us mere mortals who follow your magnificent work.
 
Bob

Brian - thanks for showing the screw up with your drill. I was beginning to believe you never made a mistake like us mere mortals who follow your magnificent work.
 
Bob