ClipperFan
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@Vladimir_Wairoa as the old carpenter's adge goes "measure twice, cut once!" However, after our exhausive dig into virtually every nook and cranny of Glory of the Seas I'm quite assured that we have developed enough solid comprehension to more accurately reconstruct many more of Donald McKay's fascinating clippers. Another big American vessel which is well documented is the Maine built clipper Red Jacket which has also been issued as a Bluejacket kit. I have the gorgeous book which has many detailed fold-out plans. -
@Luis Felipe if knowing that you have accurate sources for a large American clipper is one of your goals, you probably can't do better than our recent Donald McKay medium clipper Glory of the Seas reconstruction. First, you'll have the benefit of actually seeing literally dozens of ultra rare images of the actual vessel herself, courtesy of author Michael Mjelde who has spent a lifetime researching her and has published three in-depth books on her long successful career. You'll also have the benefit of reading build logs of @rwiederrichwho's spent the last 14 years exhaustively researching and building her in 1:96th scale so accurately that Mr. Mjelde has pronounced she's the most accurate model ever constructed of her. Besides Rob there's also @Vladimir_Wairoa who's currently nearing completion of his monster 1:72nd scale build of her as originally launched. In addition, the Winter Nautical Research Journal has the 1st of two articles on this remarkable effort (I'm writing the 2nd article right now). Finally Vladimir has created both scale bulkheads to make it easier to begin the initial build. It would be fascinating to see a big California clipper in comparison to the Scottish composite tea clipper.
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@gak1965 Don't feel bad. After a great 0-13 Covid-19 tests, my perfect record was ruined on the 14th one. Doctors say it was due to staying in a hotel. Fortunately all my shots were up to date. Besides feeling like being run over by a Mack truck, symptoms were fever, some congestion and stomach pains. In a couple weeks, it was over. All that was needed was Tylenol. Your making remarkable progress.
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Hi Luis, As the famous saying goes "It ain't necessarily so." By that, I mean the three McKay clippers you mention are not yet accurately modeled. You can check in with Rob Wiederrich or Vladimir Wairora. They will both vouch for my steadfast dedication to accuracy. If your intent is to build an accurate American clipper ship, your best bet is to follow Ed Tosti's phenomenal Young America build. I personally favor Donald McKay's clippers, which I consider more beautiful. Lars Bruzelius has compiled exacting detailed descriptions of Stag Hound, Flying Cloud, Flying Fish, Sovereign of the Seas, James Baines, Champion of the Seas, Lightning and Donald McKay as well as many others. Here's the challenge I've seen with contemporary McKay clipper models. Until Rob's Glory of the Seas build, McKay's unique naval hood, cutwater bow structure hasn't been correctly reproduced. Only the bare stem is depicted on every Flying Cloud, Flying Fish, Sovereign of the Seas and even Lightning models. For this, the culprit is actually Donald McKay himself! He so jealously guarded his nautical secrets that they've been lost to history. For years, I've been researching the actual appearance of these marvelous vessels and they're even more lovely than contemporary models reveal.
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Jared, You're welcome for the information. I just wish I could have supplied it to you sooner. Just for the record, I believe the Flying Fish plans are inaccurate. It's most likely due to a lack of available accurate information. Then again, both the Frigate USS Constitution and Whaler Charles W Morgan also share much larger lubber holes and they've been around for decades. Regardless, I'm glad you were able to fix the front of your solid top.
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That's fine, Vlad. I was just trying to encourage you not to abandon your love of modeling anyway.
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Vlad, The partucular little kit I bought way back in the 70s was Sterling Sloop Ferret. It's probably way below your skill level. Here's a link to another model ship world modified Corel Resolution (Sloop Ferret) kit build which is probably more to your liking:
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@gak1965 thanks for sharing a couple more pics of this lovely model. You're right too. Where I've really come to appreciate extensive rigging is with Rob and Vladimir's complex Glory of the Seas line work. I'm in the midst of doing a 2nd write up about the completions of their 2+ year modeling projects. The more I get into it, the more that there seems to be to still cover. Honestly, I don't think I ever realized how complex and painstakenly detailed it is. Yet, of all Donald McKay's wondrous extreme clippers, I have to admit that his double-record setting Flying Cloud is still my favorite. This goes back to it being my earliest Revell model with its stirring box top art as a Christmas gift as a kid. I did a fairly decent job building her but made one crucial mistake. I misread the instructions and painted her entire portico roof red. After she had her sails and rigging I realized too late that the instructions meant just the water buckets and not the roof. Still, she had a lovely, impressive lofty sail profile. In addition, she has the most aggressive bow and waterline profile, very much yacht like. Someday I'd love to rework her hull and deck, incorporating her impressive sail plan. As originally launched, she was a real beauty!
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@gak1965 thanks for sharing these wonderful pictures. The large Flying Cloud model is beautiful and impressive. If you have any more pics, I'd love to see them. Of course, just like every other McKay replica, no matter how well crafted, the bow is completely wrong. She's missing her distinctive naval hoods and cutwater and just like all other Flying Fish models (which admittedly is a pet-peeve of mine) the figurehead is tacked on, almost as an afterthought... Here, based on Duncan McLean's actual description of her at launch, is what her prow should actually look like.
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@gak1965 thanks for sharing these wonderful pictures. The large Flying Cloud model is beautiful and impressive. If you have any more pics, I'd love to see them.
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Bradley, Jared, who's also building Flying Fish is the reason I'm sharing more info on how to avoid the issues he's run into. When it comes to making the solid tops, your MSW plans are wrong. In two significan ways. The lubber's hole on real ships is much larger and longer, whereas the ones on your plans are way too small. Trestletrees blend neatly with the curved front of the solid top, instead of projecting out awkwardly like the plan Jared shares. Here's photographic proof from 3 vessels: clipper ship Glory of the Seas, Whaler Charles W Morgan, Frigate USS Constitution "Old Ironsides." Last 2 pics are what not to do, from Jared's post. I've already shared these images with him to hopefully get him straightened out. ironically, properly recreating this section will make it easier to rig your shrouds too. You're doing a remarkable job. It's never my intent to criticize anyone's work. I'm just doing my best to provide historically accurate information to aid in your recreations.
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@campbewj your painted and coppered Flying Fish hull looks beautiful. Since it's been well over a year from your last update, I hope all is well with you and your family. Jared who's also well on his way to finishing his clipper just ran into an issue with his solid tops. My hope is to share accurate info with you so that you can avoid Jared's problem. The MSW plans for solid tops have 2 errors. First, the crosstrees intersect the lubber's hole, creating 4 small rectangles, which isn't right. Reviewing 3 actual ships reveals that there's a long, uninterrupted lubber's hole. Second, according to Jared's "Mastini" plan, the trestletree projects awkwardly beyond the semi-circular top above. However, the foremast on Glory of the Seas shows that the trestletrees below blend in harmoniously with the solid top above. Images are 3 of Glory of the Seas , 2 of USS Constitution "Old Ironsides" a single shot of the Whaler Charles W Morgan and finally 2 of Jared's incorrect plans. Having this accurate info should allow you to rig shrouds easier too.
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Wawona59 remember this when you get to building your solid tops. This is an area where the MSW Flying Fish plans are wrong. This has caused issues for other modelers which I hope to help you avoid. The first 3 pics are of the foremast top from Glory of the Seas, courtesy of 3 time author Michael Mjelde. The 4th is directly below the solid top of the Whaler Charles W Morgan, 5th and 6th are of the Frigate USS Constitution "Old Ironsides." Finally, the last 2 show how another modeler Jared, is right now documenting his problems following wrong advice! All actual vessels show a large, unobstructed lubbers hole which covers the entire inner solid top on the merchant vessels and most of it on the military one. Meanwhile, the inacurrate FF Mastini plans show crosstrees bisecting the lubber hole which doesn't match any pics of the real ships. The clipper ship's trestle trees blend in harmoniously with her solid tops above and does not project awkwardly in front like the plans incorrectly show. In this case, accurately reproducing these features will make it easier to rig shrouds too.
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@Rick310 additional images of solid tops. First two are of "Old Ironsides" and the last is of the Whaler. That's three ships which have substanttial lubber holes, enough for all shrouds to easily be rigged through while leaving sufficient room for crew to climb through. I realize you haven't proceeded to this point in your build but my hope is this guides you in the right direction when you do.
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@Rick310 Jumping ahead to the solid tops on clipper Flying Fish. I hope to save you from repeating the same mistake that other modelers have struggled with. Again, I will refer to the priceless, authentic rare Glory of the Seas images that author Michael Mjelde has shared with us from his sixty-plus years collection. However, this time there are contemporary images as well that support this structural accuracy. Here's photographic evidence on how to precisely build your tops. You definitely want to disregard any plans that look like the last "Mastini" illustration which is wrong. Two major errors in the "Mastini" plan: lubber holes are bisected by crosstree structural members and the trestle tree juts beyond the semi-circular top which rests above them. Glory of the Seas is proof that the trestle tree blends harmoniously with the solid top above and the generous lubber hole extends uninterrupted, clear across the entire solid top. It's hard to see but the close up seems to show a part of the crosstree cut off to form the lubber hole. Next I'll share images of "Old Ironsides" USS Constitution fighting top as well as the Whaler Charles W Morgan which has a similar solid top.
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Jared, I have good news and bad news. Good news is that I have more definitive proof to thoroughly and accurately recreate a McKay top. The bad news is it means you would have to rework your tops one last time. Here's the low down. The "Mastini" top illustration is wrong, at least for a McKay clipper. The actual foretop on Glory of the Seas shows that the trestle tree blends in neatly with the semi-circular top, it does not jut out awkwardly like the "Mastini" sketch incorrectly shows. In addition, on the real ship, crosstrees are cut out to create a very generous "lubber's hole" which goes clear across the inside of the top. As opposed to the interrupted little squares as drawn in the "Mastini" sketch. That too is wrong. Besides Glory of the Seas and USS Constitution the Whaler Charles W Morgan also share these very similar strucural features. Getting this right has been an ongoing challenge to Rob Wiederrich, Vladimir who both had to revise their tops, yourself and possibly others who are now building Flying Fish. This should be the definitive answer. It also should make it a lot easier to rig this area too.
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No problem, I'm just let down that you weren't involved in the construction of the actual ship. As for mounting irons for a ringtail, it's quite possible there were later modifactions to add them. That's what we saw with Glory of the Seas. She had extensive modifications during her long lifetime.
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@gak1965 fascinating that you were in on the building of Pride of Baltimore II. The picture appears to show the top of the ringtail has its own spar which is rigged to the spanker sail. The base looks like there's a short spar rigged to the spanker boom and another thinner one rigged to the sail. Interestingly enough, my choice of this particular ship was random, just because it had such a nice clear picture of a ringtail.
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Jared, While I appreciate compliments as much as the next guy, author Michael Mjeled is our real source for wealth of knowledge on McKay clipper ships. He's gathered a treasure trove of pics over 60 years of research. To see a lot more rare images, got to Rob Wiederrich's scratch built 1:96 scale Glory of the Seas log.
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Jared, It seems like these kits were made with a myriad of little mistakes. To be generous, the manufacturers didn't have access to these historically accurate photos that Michael Mjelde has so generously shared with Rob's group. Items like the uniquely different McKay bow, highly ornately carved bulkheads, the rear coach house which conforms to the rear hull and even solid tops with generous lubber holes have all now been proven with irrefutable photographic evidence. In the case of lubber holes, it will definitely make your life easier to have much larger ones to rig through. It's never my goal to critique the amazing creative talents of you or any of your fellow model ship builders. What you guys build from scratch is simply amazing. But I do try to contribute the most accurate information to assist in recreating the most historically accurate replicas.
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George, Here's a first hand account of "setting the ringtail" on the replica topsail schooner Pride of Baltimore II by the captain of the vessel. I thought you might enjoy reading how the actual practice is done. My apologies for multiple repeat images. I'll get it down to one if I can figure out how to do that.... https://pride2.org/captains-log-setting-the-ringtail/it.
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Jared, Here are two historic pictures of Donald McKay's final medium clipper Glory of the Seas. She's in her last dry dock, according to as Michael Mjelde, author of 3 books on her. Ongoing, since 2021, Michael has been generously sharing these rare images, a result of his six decades of research into this specific ship. Looking at her lubber holes, you'll see the ones on the real vessel are much wider and longer than portrayed on Flying Fish plans. It makes sense when you think about the fact that all thick shrouds pass through this opening while still leaving enough room for climbing sailors to get through too. The last two images are of the fighting top on USS Constitution "Old Ironsides." Here you can see the crossbrace that would normally be there is omitted to accomodate the large lubberhole. I've read in more than one article that McKay's clippers featured solid tops similar to those found on men-o-war. So comparing these two ships gives a much clearer idea of how this area actually was constructed.
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George, Illustrated London Times, 22 September 1866 "The Great Tea Race from China to London, the Taeping and Ariel off the Lizard" actually shows the use of both water sails by each racing tea clipper (the ones beneath the lowest studding sail boom) and even a jaime green sail (the trapezoidal sail rigged beneath the Taeping's bowsprit). The only one not illustrated, which you asked about is a ring tail, which is an outrigger sail to the spanker. FYI: I really like your "to do list" and how you cross off each task as you complete it.
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Vladimir, From what you wrote, it sounds like you've had your fill of the tedious process of rigging. At least for a while. You may find a smaller, less complicated vessel more to your liking, as a refreshing change of pace. An neat little, single masted vessel which presents an intriguing look is the 1700s Colonial Sloop Ferret. It's an inexpensive kit available as a solid hull model from Scientific. The kit itself has a rudimentary plan but more accurate ship's lines are available in Howard Chappelle's "The Search For Speed Under Sail." You made an incredible contribution to our concerted efforts to reconstruct Donald McKay's last clipper Glory of the Seas. Our progress would have been much slower but for your clever bulkhead creation. I've already begun revising my second article to show the progress you made on your beautiful replica. Maybe it will lift your spirits.
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