Martes
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William Sutherland's concept of ship hull design, 1711
Martes replied to Waldemar's topic in Nautical/Naval History
Well, Lord Danby certainly didn't lack neither imagination nor resources, since he apparently was able to build the ship. -
William Sutherland's concept of ship hull design, 1711
Martes replied to Waldemar's topic in Nautical/Naval History
Yes, it's very revealing about the practices of the time. 17th century was very different from 18th -
William Sutherland's concept of ship hull design, 1711
Martes replied to Waldemar's topic in Nautical/Naval History
I think I have missed this point. Still, it's something very puzzling. -
William Sutherland's concept of ship hull design, 1711
Martes replied to Waldemar's topic in Nautical/Naval History
As far as I remember, the "as taken" plans were taken by measuring a number of points along the frames (with or without planking, depending on the depth of refit the ship was undergoing) and connecting them. I definitely remember somewhere this process was described in detail, and that with planking stripped it should have been more or less reliable form of recording the ship as actually built. It is possible they put some additional reconstruction along the way, but still. By the way, is it possible to tell if La Prompt had square or round-tuck stern from? But what nags me with the Danish ship (by the way, was she built by private or government shipyard?) is that the designer certainly meant something with the inward arc, and it's very difficult to imagine it was negated just like that. -
William Sutherland's concept of ship hull design, 1711
Martes replied to Waldemar's topic in Nautical/Naval History
Surely the designer would provide some documentation to the shipyard? There are many relatively complex shapes recorded in "as taken" plans of captured French warships from 18th century in Admiralty archives. See La Prompt, 1702 (earliest recorded prize, I think): https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-87615 https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-87616 -
William Sutherland's concept of ship hull design, 1711
Martes replied to Waldemar's topic in Nautical/Naval History
@Waldemar, concerning the Danish design you reconstructed - are you sure that the red curve was not intentional and would not be copied at the shipyard? Why go to such lengths to create a relatively complex shape for all of it to be simplified and shaven off during construction? Could it be possible that the shape as designed was in line with even more extravagant experiments, like the later Lord Danby's Maggot: https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-385580 (oh, how I'd love to see the planking plan for that one!) and had some hydrodynamic meaning? -
William Sutherland's concept of ship hull design, 1711
Martes replied to Waldemar's topic in Nautical/Naval History
I once posted them here: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/24626-plans-found-in-hermitage-collection-st-petersburg/ and there was a comment that it's early 17 century English style, but I did not know about Balfour at the time. Also, did you see these plans: https://www.rct.uk/collection/1047387/the-ship-london-on-her-first-voiadge -
William Sutherland's concept of ship hull design, 1711
Martes replied to Waldemar's topic in Nautical/Naval History
It's a part of a very obscure set of 3 plans that are now in the collection of the Hermitage museum https://www.hermitagemuseum.org/wps/portal/hermitage/digital-collection/02.+drawings/500128 https://www.hermitagemuseum.org/wps/portal/hermitage/digital-collection/02.+drawings/500129 https://www.hermitagemuseum.org/wps/portal/hermitage/digital-collection/02.+drawings/500130 I am not sure if their origin was ever determined, but they look very similar to Balfour's plans from the Danish archive. May be his work or copies. -
Let's say I felt a need for a distinct adversary craft.
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"Royal Navy Warship" discovered near Riga in Latvia
Martes replied to Beef Wellington's topic in Nautical/Naval History
Could be RN, could be Russian - it was, after all, Russian territory at the time, and the construction was very similar. Well, should they dig it out, we'll see. -
I know. A spinoff of Naval Action. It's positioned as a remake of AOS2, but inherits the worst parts as well - and adds very limited editability. Horrible controls, no scenario editor, same problem with damage and maneuvering as with everybody else. Calculates wind better, has land combat, but otherwise... Ships can't even tow a boat. Anyway, with all my woes with modern naval games, I am quite content with this old engine and what I did with it, and when it won't be enough, I know which way to approach this subject in Unity. This thread here is to show off the ships
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I looked at the gameplay trailer, and that "rig sails for speed" command knocked me out, literally. And sinking ships, again. Hell, wooden ships sank in combat so rarely, nobody really remembers when and if it happened. They could burn, they rarely exploded, usually they were captured, but to sink one was while not impossible, but extremely difficult. And the square rig is so fascinating system, it's just a pity modern games use it as a graphical representation of a screw engine, not even understanding it was a thrust-vector. And I can go on and on about this. All the concepts of age of sail combat are different from what we know from later.
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That's as far from historical reconstruction as one can only imagine.
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Finally finished the rebuild of the Cambridge. You know my love for Hohlenberg's designs Model with and without wireframe Colossus, Cambridge and Albion - almost a century of evolution
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Some random views on frigates. The camera in the game is extremely tricky, but it's possible to get good angles, especially when not juggling controls
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A little sense of operational perspective: My current testing scenario, depicting a harbor blockade. The three little ships around the center are bomb vessels moving to position (top image) and bombarding the fort (bottom), with other ships positioned around.
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Shifted the stripes on both skins slightly higher forward (turned out they were out of sync with the plans for some reason):
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One of the advantages of not having to cut the gunports is the ability to rearrange them relatively easily. So the I made a slightly different texture to the Albion: To make them look like the Princess Royal or razeed Queens. Underneath it is, for now, the same model, but it would be impossible to tell unless looking at the underwater section Hopefully, it will do for now. The hull shapes became so complex the pauses between finishing the ships are now much longer.
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@allanyed, I would be very glad to be of assistance, if and when it comes to 3d and visualization of ships and events. It's painful to see how much errors are usually made when filming period pieces with so few exceptions.
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L'Egyptienne under sail:
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Finished rebuilding the L'Egyptienne. Well, not exactly It was a long attempt to make a British frigate if they did build on her lines (on the occasion they didn't, as it was considered too expensive, but the project was considered for some time). I used the NMM plans with a British style stern (as it was actually fitted to her) and slightly straightened the gundeck forward, enclosing the forecastle and adding bridle ports with a late-war head. More or less the changes are similar to the process that most French frigates were subjected to under Large Repair or if a copy was ordered to be built. With very special thanks to @G. Delacroix
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Vernon, with Albion in the background View on Pique around Vernon's stern Both ships are slightly updated, and I liked the view angles enough to post them.
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Thanks for posting her lines! Do you know, if they show the shapes of the frames, or include the plank thickness? Anyway, here is a schematic of her movie configuration I found some time ago - a plan for smaller-scale model used in the movie, actually, but it may be of help recreating the altered Napoleonic style appearance:
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And ships of the line. The Cambridge and the Christian VII are in the middle of a rebuild, hence the black deck and missing forecastle ports.
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