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Martes

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Everything posted by Martes

  1. Martes
    I may be mistaken, but - purely visually - doesn't the transition around M appear to slightly distort the surface?
  2. Martes
    First of all, there is a bulge in region 1. Then, try to get rid of the enormous amount of redundant vertices in 2, 3, 5 and 6 - such regions usually cause terrible headache for smoothing algorithms. Finally, try to make the segments in 4 (and up to the hawseholes) straight on approach to the keel. If done correctly, the shading should appear more or less similar to the model Of course, it's all reverse-engineering, and at certain stage it could be simpler to actually redraw the hull mesh from the plan. But I will not go as far as to recommend it
  3. Martes
    I thought of peculiar nature of industrial espionage in this case. Usually one would think that to steal a design of a ship, a whole lot of documentation must be obtained and transported. But in this case the required information would fit on a scrap of paper or could be just memorized. You just have to have somebody who knows what to do with them There are 2 portraits of the ship by Van de Velde, one mentioned above by @allanyed: https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-136130 And another in a Dutch collection (visit the site for full size, the cat faces on the gunport lids are quite adorable): http://collectie.atlasvanstolk.nl/data_nl.asp?q0=85301&startc=1&subj=27&bron=theslijst The stern decorations on the second drawing are somewhat different those on the plan, and they are probably Commonwealth era.
  4. Martes
    What especially astonishes me here is level of data compression. With these methods, how much numbers you have to memorize to correctly unpack the ship plan afterwards?
  5. Martes
    It more or less should be pinched at the entry. I am not even sure if it's enough (1), the surface should not be convex here, either straight or pinched slightly. Check against the model. https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-66465 (and the hull lines on the plan) If you could show me the wireframe, I probably could pinpoint how to fix this (2): Shadow should not fork this way, it indicates some problem with the run of the hull. The roundhouses are ok.
  6. Martes
    Almost! Make them more tangent to the keel at region 1 and smooth out the curve in 2, and it will be all right. As to the roundhouse, I'd simply scale it up somewhat.
  7. Martes
    Better But the hull still bulges down there, and it shouldn't (compare to the shape of the model: ) And there is probably some problem with spacing of timbers on the beakhead, since the roundhouse should be wider and actually partially overhang over the edge of the deck. To ensure disposal.
  8. Martes
    Looks very nice, but there are some little corrections that can be pointed out. 1) The entry seems too bluff underwater and looks unnatural. I understand you started without specific lines, but since you reference the Bellona, her lines at this place were definitely sharper. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:'Dragon'_(1760);_'Superb'_(1760);_'Bellona'_(1760)_RMG_J3099.png 2) The roundhouses forward look a little too small. They were enclosed seats of ease, and they should fit a standing and sitting person: (detail from https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:'Shrewsbury'_(1758)_RMG_J3158.png ) 3) Referencing the plans above you may consider moving the hawseholes closer to the keel. Their positions are always somewhat floating (and in different places on same plan sets or models of the same ship), but generally at least first of them should be with less offset. https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-66465 https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-66464 https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-66299
  9. Martes
    Thats the main pitfall with wooden ships. Lines always show the frames, not planking. It's little, but it is visible. Especially, as I said, around the bow, where the hull curves, and horizontal offset becomes much more pronounced. Without it the ship will appear unnaturally slim. Plus you have a completely distorted area around the keel. And the wale is around twice the plank (midship section plan), so it's 2% already. And because of the irregularity of the plank cover thickness, the external form of the ship is slightly, but visibly different from that of the frame plan - the otherwise totally straight walls would have a light tumblehome, for example. And yes, that's what you get for going to historical modelling forum. I guess 3d artists wouldn't be that whimsical
  10. Martes
    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:COLUMBINE_1806_RMG_J5090.png https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Diligence_(1795);_Seagull_(1795);_Curlew_(1795);_Harpy_(1796);_Hound_(1796);_Chamelion_(1795)_(alternative_spelling-_Cameleon);_Racoon_(1795);_Kangaroo_(1795)_RMG_J4420.png Check these hi-res plans, and, if you want, try to read all what is written on them to delve into the murky waters of Admiralty bureaucracy. Problem with the brigs is that they were very numerous and had an impossible number of in-service alterations. It's very difficult to track them all. But if you search long enough you will notice that most of the brigs that even don't have some details drawn on the profile, get them on deck/inboard plans, meaning they were added very soon after approval and sometimes even before completion. There was a long discussion of habitability of those ships and they gradually received more and more details. And no, the poop it's not only vantage point. It's also a some cover, and a roof over the cabins. Check the deck. The plans I see have it slightly rise towards the stern.
  11. Martes
    @druxey, the cabins, the poop and the flying forecastle are generally shown on inboard profile plans, and there are lots of them for the class. https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-84378
  12. Martes
    Then double-check the position of the deck. The stern ports are there to fire through them. Ouch. I... Again hate to break it, but the there is a severe problem with the hull. It should not follow the hull lines on the plan, but to envelop them. The lines show the outer shape of the frames, which are then covered with plank. See the midship section https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-83745 The difference is not constant. It's larger at the wale, and will generally differ around the bow, as the the hull curves inwards towards the keel, and there you can use the top projection on the main plan to see if the envelope goes right. I saw you did part of the frames, so you have to adjust them, and envelope them with the planking.
  13. Martes
    I do have to correct myself about the chains. Technically, they could have been fixed to the hull (the model in fact shows exactly this, it's just barely visible). There are no holes in the tuck. Because, when needed, cables would be fixed to them, and then go into the hull where it would be convenient under the situation: But try to verify the positions of the stern ports, you should be able to fire through them - either carronades or chase guns, if there are any fitted.
  14. Martes
    Yes, it definitely should be larger (to fit the closets) or removed at all.
  15. Martes
    You might want to browse this place: https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?search=brig+rmg&title=Special:MediaSearch&go=Go&type=image but beware, it's a rabbit hole out there.
  16. Martes
    Also, I think you should remove the name from the stern. They appeared on the ships briefly after the american war, but with the start of the french revolutionary war there was an order to remove them to prevent exact identification of the ships, IIRC, and it stayed that way long afterwards. So it would be easier to represent different ships with one model
  17. Martes
    And here is another model, but be careful, it's a modern interpretation, and may be just a little too fancy and slightly more 1840's in style:
  18. Martes
    As to the stern, I am afraid you'll have to remove even the lantern (or at least put them to the sides and lower). Did you notice the holder in the center of the sternboard on the model? It's for the spanker boom. Nothing should stick it's head above it.
  19. Martes
    Of course you can! Check my post again https://modelshipworld.com/topic/33504-3d-brig-rose-in-blender-33x/?do=findComment&comment=958183 I said "The tiller should be visible behind the wheel, as there is no place to fit it below the deck:" not "get rid of the wheel" or something. It's just that you can steer using the tiller without a wheel, but not vice versa. "It" in "to fit it" meant the tiller, obviously, since if it's not on the deck, it is invisible, i.e. below the deck, and there is no place there. And the same post has the plans with the tiller quite visibly drawn. And the stern lockers. Note that there were tons of variations in positioning of both, like here, where the initial position of the wheel is before the port, with longer and inclined tiller, and corrected places it aft with shorter and lower tiller. So it's your choice:
  20. Martes
    That's exactly what I am trying to tell you, there is no, and cannot be a conflict between the wheel and the tiller. The wheel turns the tiller. The tiller is either on the same deck just after the wheel, or down below, but it is there, you can't do without it. The chains are used as a backup in case the wheel and the tiller are shot out. And the photos I posted are from the same model, two different views. Got that about the rings, I thought they might have represented shut scuttles or something. Anyway, no such rings would appear on ships then. It's something consistent with our times, and I never seen one on any 18-th or 19-th century model or plan. If ever they were used, they would be fitted just prior to docking and removed afterwards, I'd guess. Concerning taffrail, I think it should be somehow decided if this ship represents a period ship or a modern replica of one. At the time no one would fit such rails to military ship, since it's a source of splinters and windage, and generally unnecessary detail. Because it obstructs the spanker boom and requires to restrict the spanker's area, first of all, and you don't need people walking there anyway. It's like you would add propellers and say "but they are fitted on the Surprise". Of course I believe you, but the safety requirements and regulations back in 1800 were very different from those now
  21. Martes
    Note that the bowsprit should be locked from the back into a structure, it wouldn't hold in place otherwise:
  22. Martes
    I'd hate to spoil the fun, but you got everything wrong. First of all, the chains to the rudder have to go somehow (over the side or through a scuttles) inside the hull. Those chains are a backup rudder control system and would be useless as shown. A contemporary model shows that the chains penetrate the hull lower, at the tuck stern level, and the place where you placed the rings is supposed to be the plumbing scuttle: The taffrail is waaay to high for a brig, even if you are going to fit the poop, it would not have wooden carved supports, but likely be done of light temporary metal rods with rope. But it still would be about a half lower. What are those rings evenly spaced on the gunwale?
  23. Martes
    Is it normal and would it be visible, or the outside planking would cover this?
  24. Martes
    The basic intention, to my understanding, is to extract as much data from these plans as possible. It's not that we have many alternatives. The fact that using the base dimension we get quite round and feasible values for radii of the curves may, possibly, indicate the process might be going the right way. Hopefully, @Waldemar would be able to figure out what is wrong with the sequence of the stations. There were some concerns about the condition and deterioration of the wreck, I vaguely remember.
  25. Martes
    That's the thing, there is no profile. There is only a midship section and ordnance list. The last pair aft are 23 (left) and 24 (right), they are alternating. On the link to RCT London's images are at slightly higher resolution and noticeably sharper. https://www.rct.uk/collection/1047387/the-ship-london-on-her-first-voiadge And direct links to images: https://www.rct.uk/sites/default/files/collection-online/7/2/498611-1418048073.jpg https://www.rct.uk/sites/default/files/collection-online/5/a/498612-1418048122.jpg https://www.rct.uk/sites/default/files/collection-online/6/0/498610-1418048055.jpg https://www.rct.uk/sites/default/files/collection-online/3/b/448394-1393596039.jpg

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