Michelnou

There is none rudder deck crossing drawing on Mantua kit layouts.

 

Here is a picture of the model whose scale is estimated about 1/50.

 

I specify that the tiller is glued to the rudder. The current length of the tiller is 35 mm.

 

In this case, it is for tiller steering (barre franche in French).

 

I work on a Mantua schooner kit which includes several errors such as scale mistakes. It is why I wonder about this subject.

 

This kit does not include rudder cover, I suppose that it is a lack.

 

Mike

I wonder what was approximately the tiller's length on a schooner whose deck was 75 feet long.

 

Thanks for the answers

 

Mike

 

 

In fact, the initial deck color resembled more to cherry wood than mahogany which is darker.

 

I suppose that the scale is about 1/40 because it is a small schooner which only 3 guns on each side.

 

Here is a picture of the model :

Finally  I will replace backstays deadeyes with blocks.

 

These blocks will be rope stropped to allow the fixing with deck's eyepins.

 

Mike

On my Baltimore schooner (around 1810) I contemplate to bound backstays to deck by means of deadeyes.

Knowing that I have already eyepins glueded in the deck, what is the best method to fasten the bottom deadeye to the eyepin ? With rope or wire ?

 

Thank for advices

Mike

Finally, I have spread a colorless mat oil on the desk  and with a clear bulwark it is not that bad.

 

Mike

On the Mantua Baltimore clipper, the desk included in the kit is made of thin plywood (2,5 mm) of which the outer surface color resembles to mahogany wood.

Knowing that usually  ship desk color is not brown/red, what can I do to improve that situation ?

 

I thank you for your advices

Mike

I believed that commonly, at that time, the gun carriages were red...

 

Mike

Thank you for these advices.

It is what I do because masts were not still fixed.

For the bulwark, which was varnished, I am painting it with Humbrol 103 which is a mat light cream color.

Do you know the gun's carriage colors which were mainly used on these Baltimore clippers ?

 

Mike

I own the book of Howard Chapelle, it is why the hull, that I have painted gloss white 30 years ago, is now mat dark blue with the upper white band.

 

I had finished walnut masts and spars whith gloss varnish. I realize now that it was a mistake. It is why I consider to sand masts and spars and then apply matt colorless oil. Is it a good idea ? 

 

Thanks

Mike

When you write "the choice for masts is natural" should I understand that one must use a varnish or an oil matt or semi-gloss  or not any product ?

 

In my kit, masts and spars are made of Walnut.

 

Mike

I have started the building of a Baltimore clipper (1800-1840) ship model many years ago.

Now I take it again and it seems to me that I didn't always make the good finishing choices.

It seems to me that I have too much used shiny varnish on some inboard wood components.

Before rigging I wish, if possible, to correct these choices. That is the reason why I should know which were the regular finishing look and colors applied on the masts, the spars and the bulwark on such a ship.

I imagine that it could be colorless products (oil, varnish, etc...), colored paints or not any product which were used on these surfaces.

I thank you for your advices.

Mike

 

 

I thank you for these informations.

In fact, I must clarify the features of the ship. She is a Baltimore clipper, built about 1780-1820. This schooner was not a big ship : deck length about 65 feet, 2 masts with gaff sails, 2 square sails with 3 yards on fore mast , bowsprit and jibs, racked masts, flush deck, 6 guns and a "Long Tom", certainly designed for a small crew.

The model's plans seem to be drawed with a scale about 1/45.

Mike

 

From a practical point of view, can you specify the blocks used to build the tackle, that is to say the deck's block and the upper block (single or double or else).

I imagine that the deck's block is fastened to an eyepin glued in the deck.

Thank you

Mike

Sailboats including gaff sails like schooners, clippers or brigs require free space behind the masts to allow booms and gaffs to move on each side without hitting obstacles.

Yet, it is necessary to apply forces with ropes, on the masts, towards the stern to secure their fixing and position.

That is why I am looking for the backstay rigging rules, for these particular ships, which can allow both the mechanical support of the mast and the free moving of gaff and boom.

 

I suppose that these rules will broach,

- the height, in relation to the deck, of the link between mast and backstay,

- and either the angle between the backstay and the mast, either the maximal distance between the mast and the tie of the stay on the deck.

 

I thank you to provide to me knowledge on this particular subject.

Mike

Thank you for these informations.

However, concerning cloth's choosing, I  have difficulty in believing that XIX ship's builder selected transparent sail's fabrics.

Reasons are that salt atmosphere is not favourable for any materials and that winds could be very strong.

 

Mike

 

Thank you for the advices.

Concerning the stay or backstay tackles, I think of doing the next schematic diagram with two double blocks.

 

Is it OK

 

Mike

Popeyetosea,

Beginners can ask amazing questions, it's normal...

 

If you could answer to my june 1 post, that will help me for some rigging points of detail.

 

Concerning rigging threads diameters, I use now the informations given by Biddlecombe at the end of his book "The art of rigging". Very useful.

 

See you soon

Mike

 

 

 

Thanks for all.

 

About the mast's collars, there are none available in the kit's box. I am expected tu add them on the masts.

I make them with rope and glue. Is it the right method ?

 

About the level of the topsail yard lift blocks I had put them above the foremast cap, at 0,60 time the cap to uppermost collar distance.

 

When I write piton, it is similar to eyepin.

 

On 5/30/2020 at 10:11 PM, popeye2sea said:

Backstays should be set up with deadeyes

These deadeyes are they the same than those used for shrouds ?

 

On 5/30/2020 at 10:11 PM, popeye2sea said:

I would seize, or hook,  a deadeye or block to the ring bolt . . .

This block is it a single or double to make  backstay tackle ?

 

Wood hearts could they be used to attach different front stays on bowsprit elements ? 

 

About the shrouds and stays diameters, your reasoning is right, but do you think honestly that ship builders took into account the different strengths depending of the mast's height to differentiate rope diameters ?

I have at my disposal in dark colors 0,90 and 0,50 mm. In natural color I have 0,75, 0,65 and 0,30 mm.

 

About shrouds, which diameter for laniards ?

 

To finish with yards rigging, the "classical" rule require halyard+lifts+braces+ parrel elements.

 

Knowing that I have fitted the yards with an "opened yoke", and that I wish to reduce aloft rigging, I consider to apply the set-up below ,

Lower yard : halyard+lifts+braces+ parrel

Topsail yard : halyard+lifts+braces

Topgallant yard : halyard+braces

 

What is your opinion about this rigging for a Baltimore topsail schooner knowing that, in my opinion, it is not an exact science and that there is certainly not just the right configuration.  

 

Take care

Mike

 

Thanks for all.

I appreciate that some good Guys focus on Mantua rigging plan which can product nightmares. I am less alone !

 

Henry, can you advise me (using the plan) about the lift block levels (on fore top-mast) for top-sail yard lift and top-gallant yard lift ?

Same question for halyard block levels for these two yards ?

 

I have put Lower yard halyard static block on trestletrees, is it the right level ?

 

I agree with you about attaching points level for topgallant backstay and  topgallant stay. It would be the same level.

 

Concerning the attaching method of "Backstays" on the deck, the kit Mantua designer has put brass piton on each side (P and T). What is the right method to attach the ropes to these pitons ?

 

Must I use the same rope diameter (0,85 mm) for stays, backstays and shrouds ?

 

Which rope diameter for halyards, lifts and braces (knowing that I have took 1/50 scale) ?

 

Have a nice day

Mike

 

It is clearer.

 

- I note that the parrels are not quoted.

 

- In the case where I should have Halyard and Lifts, can you tell me for which element the block level is the highest on the fore-mast ?

 

I have sometimes difficulties with English expressions and nautical terms meaning, so :

 

1 hour ago, Dr PR said:

the port or starboard lines would have to be lead over the fore stay

- I suppose that this sentence concern halyard and lifts. What do you mean by "to be lead over the fore stay" ?

 

2 hours ago, Dr PR said:

the braces would be draped over the main course spar

- Do you mean that braces line must be belayed near the stern ?

2 hours ago, Dr PR said:

The topsail spar and sail could be lowered to the main spar

- Sorry, but which are precisely the spars and sails concerned by "the topsail spar and sail" ?

 

- I enclose the plan of my kit (which contains several errors) to make easier our exchanges.

Popeye2sea : I have clearly noted that for the top-gallant yard, the lifts are not essential.

 

Mike

Thank you again for these heated ideas on our subject.

 

But with all these informations, sometimes contradictory, it becomes difficult for me to decide which options to choose...

 

Especially, I still do not know if, assuming a light rigging on a topsail schooner, concerning top-gallant-yard and top-sail-yard on fore-mast, the halyard duplicates or not the lifts. In which case, only one of them would be retained.

 

Maybe that, for safety reasons, it is reasonable to fly setting the top-gallant-yard only (to quickly take off the sail).

 

Mike

Thank you for your post.

My ship model is a topsail schooner with one top on the main mast and one top on the foremast.

Your "Light rigging" description is it also valid for this Schooner's family ?

 

Mike

This layout is far from the rules that one can read in the books describing Rigging...

 

In this case without lifts, I wonder how the yard could be horizontal.

 

And I who believed that lifts could substitute halyard...

 

Mike