chris watton

A truly excellent, and inspirational thread.

Hi Mike, No problem - here you go: And this is the model in her crate, almost ready to be shipped - Victory would be too large (500mm longer and much wider) which is why we have to hire a van and drive...

Hi Mike, As far as I am concerned, the scroll work is fine as is. I know the frieze work should really be painted on, so a colour paper template would be more in keeping - but the very thin brass is more 'resilient', whereas paper, no matter how good the quality, isn't. One small scratch can ruin it. (I know this from experience) I was referring to the actual hull design, the bulkheads and deck beams - it is this area which needs 'beefing up' - it may be too delicate for some, so it will need re-designing as per the Victory method (which is a progression from the Bellona designs anyway) The stern main decoration is cast resin - it is way too 'frothy' to work well using multi-layered photo etch. The resin is great though, as it is much more pliable than metal. Laser cut decoration I am not so keen on. It is too easy for the parts to crumble to nothing, if not 100% careful, and edges have to be carefully rounded off if it's to look like the real thing. There's nothing worse than having the tiny part break just as you finish an hours work on it..

Hi Mike, I made the designs way too 'delicate' - if it came out in kit form without change, many modellers would have problems (although I am stone cold sure you and many others on here would have no problem) If I get the go-ahead to buff the designs to general retail standard, I will be very happy - but it will be quite a lot of work. Would be worth it though as, looking at the pictures I had taken (I haven't seen it since shipping it over to Amati), it is a very nice looking model and would do well, sales-wise I think. It's like a Fly/Pegasus kit but on steroids, decoration-wise.

It would make a very nice kit, I have to agree. I will mention this when I see them.

Bowsprit looks fine, Kevin.

That is of course up to you to decide, isn't it? Stub masts is an accepted way of displaying a model, as it depicts the subject at a particular stage in it's life/construction, as do 'missing planks' -the latter also shows off the internal detail and extra work carried out - leaving the ratlines off just smacks of 'couldn't be bothered to do the necessary but mundane aspects' and detracts from the overall effect. The two examples you mention do not, especially when executed correctly. If you have a full set of masts however (including top and topgallants, even royals), then not adding ratlines makes no visual or historical sense - once the lower masts were stepped, the lower shrouds and ratlines would have been rigged, otherwise how would the men climb to the tops to aid with the stepping of the upper masts? This is only my personal opinion, and not gospel, of course.

At the end of the day, it's your kit/model, you are free to do whatever you see fit. However, a 'scale model' should have the ratlines rigged if it had them, otherwise it will always remain an unfinished scale model. IMOHO.

I know - you have no idea! lol Sausage dogs are staying, step son is staying at home (my God!) while we're away - they were all born in Italy though.. I think Cutty Sark is still on hold as we're waiting for a technology that allows us to replicate the two deck houses in fine detail (many different layers of panelling of the real version) - but I shall ask.

You'd hate it - 12 hours solid driving and having to suffer an 18 year old female's choice of musical dirge on her iPod - plus a wife who loves ABBA! - a necessary evil I have to endure from time to time... Plastic kits manufacturers have really upped their game over the past decade or so, allowing you to built a very accurate miniature version of the real thing; I would not be happy spending hundreds on a wooden based kit only to find that its cheaper and relatively tiny plastic equivalent has more detail and more accuracy.. So post above... LOL

I love the Van De Velde drawings - one of my favourite and most treasured of books is Frank Fox's Great Ships - The Battle fleet of Charles II. I used this for reference for a few Prince changes, like the small protruding stern gallery that's not shown on the original model - but I trust the De Velde sketches, I regard them as almost as good as actual photographs for reference. I am seeing Amati soon, so I'll see what's going on regarding future projects...

Looking good, and brings back memories of my younger years when building this model. If I may, I would like to give a little tip.. If you can, look carefully at the Payne engraving and Van De Velde sketches. Try to follow the main wales using those as reference for these and the upper wales. Allow the second planking to follow the upward curve of the wales, and this is how the bulwark tops should be shaped - it should be a nice soft curve, not stepped with slightly different angles of the curves as the kit depicts - or at least, when I built it 20 years ago (where do the years go - the older I get, the faster the years pass..)

Thank you, Mike. I have written before that I was not looking forward to designing yet another Victory. I have built many Airfix versions, the Panart version and had completed designs for the 72nd scale version 12 years ago. I realise that things have moved on a lot since then, and I most certainly wasn't prepared to re-tread old ground - boring for me, and a let down for the modeller who chooses to buy one. It was probably the Airfix Victory that got me fascinated with ships from the age of about 8. I have recently bought some Tamiya plastic models, a Spitfire, Mustang and the Airfix 24th scale Mosquito. I know that there are many super-detailing kits to improve the already great level of detail. Some may quite rightly argue that most of the detail cannot be seen when made, but it's there nonetheless and this is where plastic modelling is going, so why not try it with predominantly wooden model kits, rather than simple 'block-models' - in which each new model is nothing more than an 'identi-kit' design of the previous models we build? I didn't want to give the illusion of full gun decks, I wanted the decks to actually be there, and when looking through the stern windows, I wanted to see the decks, not a wall of plywood, so the little boy in me could look through any opening and see detail - if the detail is there in a top of the range £100 Tamiya Spitfire kit, I feel it should also be there for a top of the range £800+ wooden kit - anything less is now unacceptable to me, as a modeller and designer. With this in mind, Victory designs began, after learning lessons from the Bellona prototype - if it's really no different to the sea of other Victory offerings, then what would be the point - people would justifiably state that they could do just as good a job on a £200 kit, rather than splashing out 3-4 times as much - this is the problem with 'block' models, there's only so far you can go. I will still leave out very minor details, like flags for the flag lockers and deck furniture. I believe that most like to add their own stamp of personality to the model and get enjoyment from this aspect, to truly make it their own, so deliberately omitting minor detail is intentional - I am stone cold sure that there will be many interesting and more detailed models made from this kit than my 'bare' prototype - I just hope I have eliminated as much as possible the more boring aspects of building the model.. Cheers, I have considered the Warrior, but concluded that it wouldn't be a great seller. Wrong period. While there will always be a few that want this model, the bottom line is that not enough would ever sell to justify development time and money. The only good sellers for this period are the elegant clipper ships - for military though, anything post Napoleonic seems to garner little interest. (I'm not saying there's no interest, but not enough to justify developing a kit) Wish I did have a half year pause, I have another 6 months on Victory, but it's all PC based.... Am hoping I can either do Prince or the Leda class frigate next. ..or something small and Dutch...

Cheers guys So glad it's finally finished - no more modelling for at least 6 months now. The dimensions are approximately 1600mm long x 1200mm high x 560mm width (including main stun sail booms). I must try to weigh it.

LOL, you will have more fun building one - you haven't finished your Victory yet - you don't want another, your wife will kill you! It is going over because Amati actually own the model, and of course, they take professional pictures for box art and other promotional stuff. Thank you Joe. You could make the kit every bit as good, if not much better than the one I made. One thing I do notice on some threads is that some areas seem to be rushed, especially hull prep and painting. If you take your time on this area - fill, sand, fill,sand etc, prime the hull to see where the rest of the imperfections are, and go through it all again until most if not all imperfections/cracks are gone - and then for good measure, do it one last time, the end result can look great - even if you make a hash off the planking (as I usually do...). This does take time, as does the painting - and masking for this particular model. I am sure I spent more time preparing the hull and masking than any other aspect. Always take your time, never rush. If you're not happy with what you've just done, simply start that area again - this happened several times to get the yellow/black bands correct, or, as correct as they can be to my eye. For a kit like this (or ay other, TBH), never employ a 'That'll do' policy, and the end result is something you and others will be very happy with.

OK, finished! Well, almost - still needs a figurehead and carronades, but apart from that, it is done - now I have months of PC based work to look forward to. Sorry about the quality of the pics (and background) - we can now renovate the room with nice oak flooring and putting some colour on the walls (and changing those awful curtains..), now that I have just vacated the space. Will be taking it at the end of October - have to admit that it doesn't seem that big now, after having it around for so long - almost become part of the furniture. Need to find a nice sturdy base to attach it to..

I shall ask about that when we go over there next month - I have nothing to do with release dates or how and why new kits are released when they are - I just do the design and development which is then handed over to Amati. I then begin the next one and have little clue as to where the completed developments stand by way of release dates. The only clue I get is when I am contacted to check over the final versions of plans/instructions/parts lists. This is how I know the Revenge is next to be released.

Thanks guys I shall see what Amati say when we take the model over next month. It is almost finished! Just the anchors to tie in place, main brace spans and of course, the figurehead and bowsprit shrouds when the figurehead is eventually in place. (I added the boomkin stays otherwise I couldn't rig the fore tacks/sheets) I did intend to rig the preventer braces for the fore and main yards, but realised too late that I neglected to add the blocks under the fore top for the standing and falling parts of the main preventer's - and it's just too congested under there to risk trying to get them on.. I did run out of 0.5mm black thread so had to order some more (Model Dockyard to the rescue, again..) - I didn't realise just how much I used, over 2 metres for the fore royal/flagstaff stay alone! Will take some pics once the anchors are in place. Still lots of touching up to do... I have kept the bowsprit rigging to a minimum (no jib sail stays but fore yard bowlines are rigged) because this is a very breakable area, especially with the 1000 mile road trip

Thank you! I think the biggest problem is the fact that everything has to be translated into Italian. I now try and use as little text as possible to help expedite this problem - but am not happy doing so, as I know there are some out there who prefer written instructions than drawings (I have no idea why, I personally prefer drawings over text), so with pages upon pages of instructions, plus hundreds of drawings, I always aimed to please the most amount of people - the fallout being the translation issues. I have even advertised for an Italian translator so that I could do it all at my end, but to no avail. I hope to hear something on the Revenge front very soon - but they are still on their long summer holiday right now.....

Cheers guys! Have got all of the yards on now, bowsprit now rigged (but, frustratingly, not the lower parts due to no figurehead yet...) There are now so many loose lines of rigging that I did the inevitable, I cut short the port topmast yard tie instead of the topgallant yard tie - that'll teach me to concentrate a little harder... I 'pinned' the boats into position, and I am glad I did, as I have taken three off to make belaying near that area a little easier. Main stay tackles and main course buntlines and leech lines next.....joy....

Latest as of today - pics not very good, but anticipate another 2 weeks' work..

Looking good, Kevin. Nice neat job.

Thanks for that Jax . I had one of the dogs in a chair next to me whilst tying the ratlines - I think he enjoyed watching me suffer... I have just finished the ratlines - three long days of solid work. They still look a little too 'white', so tomorrow I will try a mixture of water, tea and PVA and brush the mixture onto the ratlines to slightly darken them and secure the clove hitches before cutting the excess off. Now that the last of the 'long jobs' is complete, I anticipate finishing it (albeit without figurehead and bowsprit shrouds) within three weeks. Not long now until my wife can have her dining table back.......

Thank you - but rest assured, I won't enjoy the rattling down process - can feel my arms ache in anticipation already....

I never add the netting - I never see it on original Admiralty models so I don't add it (we rarely see guns rigged, too) - plus, it's another of those jobs that I'm probably crap at doing well....