MBerg

Thanks for linking that vid. I had completely forgot about that one. I have some good news. The pins I ordered from the UK worked. They're Amati, I'll post a pic of the package for any future victims of Model Expo. I got the nails installed on the stays; finished and installed the rudder. I was able to hold true to the prototype and instructions by completing the pintles as described. It was fun fitting the nails, but I can't say I had fun fiddling with the CA and getting it on my fingers every few seconds - the gobs that come out, even with my 'precision tip' are far too large. I'm thinking there are better options out there than the gorilla glue tips for such ultra fine detail. I found the idea of using pipettes, which I'll try. It also looks like BSI has some precision tips. Something to experiment with in the future - I'd love to hear comments from the wise ones here. Also, if there's a trick to keep away, reduce or clean up the white powder CA leaves behind. I'm very happy that I managed to keep the rudder as a working, and removeable part. I didn't bother marking out the transom for the gudgeons as instructed. I simply glued both on at the same time while hinged to the rudder. The bottom one ended up slightly crooked but it worked well enough and ensured the rudder was installed straight. Filed the rudder down a bit to seat the pintle closer. However I wouldn't advise doing this since there isn't a lot of room to work with and you could end up binding the hinges when fully assembled. Here are the nails I used: I haven't glued the base together yet, but it's shaped, and yes, my incredibly small workspace needs a cleaning up. Thanks for looking Matt

Woops! yeah, that's not a good look. Although they do also sell wood puzzles, maybe they're trying to mix the best of both worlds now. I feel vested in this now - I'll check out her channel to see what she does. Also good to know she made the lobster smack. I know the midwest is different than the model shipways, but it may still come in handy. For the rudder, I looked back at the instructions and the notches that are originally put in the rudder way back on step 28 do say they are for the pintles. So maybe they're supposed to be inset in the rudder a bit. This makes sense, however the etched lines were way to small to fir them. I'm thinking I'll back up a bit here and increase the size of those notches. Since I need to do a bit of touchup on the daggerboard anyways, I can touchup the rudder too. There's another issue where the rudder is 3/32" and the pintle is 1/16". So with the strap wrapped snuggly around the pintle, it's too tight of a slot to fit over the rudder. I was just messing with it and after widening the strap to fit around the rudder, the CA broke, the tube popped out of the strap. I may end up just fitting the pintle right on the rudder and then CA the strap over top of it. I'll fiddle around with this for a bit and see what I end up with... I am too particular for my own good sometimes. I hear good things about the fitment and quality of Vanguard, although I have some kit's ahead of me still, I'm really wanting to try them out. Will report back when I've made some good progress - convinced the wife to do a quick shopping trip for mothers day earlier, and I got some replacement dowels... We went there for her, of course.....

Haha. You know, that thought crosses my mind more and more as I continue through these kits. "You idiot, you fell for it again. When are you going to learn, the instructions are meant to trick you, not help you complete the build as best as possible!" I think a very likely scenario is that David (the maker of the prototype, kit and instructions) is not employed by model expo and they just kind of supply whatever is convenient and have no interest in fixing or improving the kits.

Thanks Trevor. I found some Amati pins/nails that based on the diameter in the desc. should do the trick. I've been jumping all over the place here, I get to the forestays, needs pins, get to the pintles, need a torch. So far I have the base and supports made up, a partly carved mast (which I just realized I cut an inch short at 9" instead of 10" ). I'm still waiting on pins, but the gudgeons and pintles are done now - or maybe not? Seems there's a bit of an issue, the 'straps' are too short. I double checked all the other brass pieces, and it seems these are the right ones. Anyone else have the same or have an idea of the issue? Funny, in the picture they look just long enough, but the top one is right on the edge. I feel like adding a nail will split the wood. Seems these should be far longer than they are, unless I've done something wrong. Making them was interesting - I'm not sure how I feel about the metal work. It's satisfying, but a pain at the same time. I liked gluing everything together, on the contrary, cutting the tiny brass tube was horrible. After I got a butane torch, I borrowed more of my wife's jewelry making supplies. I've also been getting some use out of the magnifying glass I bought a while back: Filing the tubes to length. Started with pliers to wrap the strap around the tube, ended up needed to adjust it and found that using my fingers worked the best. Used a flashlight to hold everything steady for gluing The mast dowel grain is pretty wild. It was going to look cool, but it was difficult trying to carve. The grain was one direction on one side and the other direction on the other side. Cross section like this: /// I'm not sure I would've been able to finish it without breaking it anyways, and looks like there's a couple methods to get the mast. I'll likely pick up another dowel just to try both methods just for the experience. Here's 3 pics, one of the 'front', 'side' and 'rear' of the dowel I had. Not sure if I'm explaining this right, but that's all edges of the grain. Having made bows before, I can tell about every couple millimeters of that dowel is a weak point. The centerboard needs a bit of touchup, the base supports need shaping and I'll get this mounted, hopefully the pins show up soon and are the right size. I'll need to sort out the rudder problem, and then I think that's it for the hull work. All that's left will be the mast, sails, oars - home stretch. Thanks for the help, comments, and following. Matt

The most important part of it all!

Very nice looking boat. There's one similar a couple storage spaces over from mine. Nothing like a proper wood boat. Speaking of wood boats - What the heck is everyone using for 'nails' to hold the stay plates. I found some small flat head pins from Michaels. They aren't quite brass, but more of a gold color. I wanted to dry fit them to see if I was fine with with, but even those are too thick for the stay-plates. I also picked up some proper PVA. Until now I've been using gel since it's a bit more forgiving, but with some of these extremely small areas I'm finding it a little too thick. It was a bit messy applying to the 'fore stay'. It also seems to be giving off some sort of white residue on surfaces around it over time

No problem, and not to get off topic, but what do you have? I just bought my first sailboat (siren 17) at the very end of last season and will give getting it in the water soon, then to figure out how the hell to sail it!

Very carefully and with sweaty palms! Marked out where it needed to go and scored it a bit with a mechanical pencil. I used a #72 bit (0.025"), positioned it as center as possible with a magnifying glass, drilled through, then used a broach to slowly open it up to 1/32" (0.03125). I thought I was going to break it many times, but surprisingly I didn't need to use the spare. I ended up being slightly off center, but made sure when drilling I was looking down the length of the tiller to make sure I wasn't veering off either direction. Before fitting the brass I filed the ends slightly so it wouldn't catch on any sharp edges and then just kind of twisted it into position. I touched the sides of the hole with diluted pva after the brass was in place. I'm not surprised that many haven't gotten this to work, this is incredibly small work! Have you tried yet, or in the thinking and planning stage?

Log #13 - Tiller, eyebolt, stay plates Messed up the tiller earlier today, so had to do an emergency disassembly. I glued the side pieces on the top and bottom, not the sides - oops. Got that fixed up tonight. Managed to cut the brass down and 'rivet' it. However, I definitely have too much brass sticking out. I would like it to be tighter to the wood, but I'm leaving it for now. One piece stated bending slightly so I stopped. The tiller extension is so fragile I didn't want to get too excited as I'd risk breaking it completely and being in a far worse spot. I cut the brass with a razer saw which was a little cumbersome, but worked well enough. I stole my wife's jewelry saw, but I think the blade was too large for this work. I used one of my smallest bits to start each hold and used a broach to open them up to the needed size. I'm glad David recommends the broaches and I bought some early on - they were a life saver here. I fixed the problem mentioned in the earlier post by fitting a small piece of 1/16" tube into the oversized hole. The 1/32" rod fits perfectly inside and clears the hold in the extension. 1/16" tube cut and fitted - though a touch long 1/16" tube with 1/32" rod in the middle Top side: I may attempt to cut or file back the excess brass that attaches the extension, but I'm leaving it as is for now. I moved onto the eyebolt, and stays. Fitted everything, and as others have said the brass 'nails' are far too large to pin the size stay plates. Leaving it as is for now, I'll have to pick up some needles or something to use instead. I have an order coming from Cornwall model boats and added some brass pins - hopefully they work. In the meantime I can always work on fitting the rudder and building the display board.

Had some surprise free time today to work on the tiller. Instructions call for 3 pieces of 1/16" brass to complete it. So okay, tiller first, I nervously broached (a word?) out the hold I drilled to fit the 1/16" brass rod, then I look at the tiller extension. NO WAY a 1/16" hole will go through the extension, it's overall width is 1/16" So now I've got a way oversized hole in my tiller for the extension. I'll need to find a work around for this, but there are far to many of these stupid errors in the instructions. Especially for a beginner kit that had been around for this many years, it's very frustrating they haven't corrected these yet. Should have some time tonight to get the tiller glued together, and figure out what I'm going to do with this oversized attachment point.

Log # 12 - Floor board, thwarts and stern sheets With the wife getting sick, and isolating in the room I also work on my boat, I was playing single parent for a week and a half, but back to the pram this week. Made some decent progress. First off, I picked up a disc sander months ago for black Friday. Stupid me found a great deal in the UK and ordered it. Oh yeah, they don't use the same outlets as North America, forgot that tiny detail! I ended up keeping it and getting a transformer. Finally got to give it a proper go this week and I'm in love. It takes the char off in a split second, bevels precisely at any angle. It was great while working the floor boards. Just have to be careful not to take too much off, it goes through those little pieces like butter. The transformer works great. I thought I was going to have to send it back, but this was a lifesaver. I realized that since I sanded down the supports, there would be light wood between the board. I marked out where they seems would be and darkened them with a fine point sharpie My only regret is painted the thwarts. I like the look of the bare wood and matching the floor boards much better. The only reason I painted them was because it looks like they were painted in the instructions. At least it doesn't look bad, and they match the outer hull anyways. I also touched up a few small spots and put another coat on the center board, filed down the inside of the case a bit more to make room for all the paint. It's a bit on the tight side, but should work nicely. Just before stopping, I started on the tiller. This should be interesting - I don't recall seeing anyone having much success 'riveting' the brass. I think I'll give it a shot and see what happens. I'll spend a bit of time searching some logs for tips to see if anyone has done it successfully. Matt

Beautifully done. Looking forward to your smack build!

@SaltyScot Good idea! and actually if you click on the three dots in the top right of the post you want to save and hit 'share' you can get a link to the exact post and not just the thread. I hope that helps return the favor.

Oh yes. The cutout for the dagger board case is way too long. You're not the only one that's commented on that. Everyone I've seen mention it has filled in the extra space with scrap wood or filler. I used some scrap and sanded it down.

As someone who'll be finishing up the pram soon (provided life permits) and got my first sailboat at the end of last season,I very much appreciate the detail you put into accurately ending the rigging. Now if only there was a way to save posts for future reference...

Just stumbled upon this and read your first post. Great story! I'll follow you along on this, and try to catch up on the previous 10 pages.

I think the problem with using CA glue on painted parts isn't so much that thee CA won't hold them together, but more so that the weakest part of the joint is not the paint adhering to the wood. I suppose it depends on the application. Some attachments would be a lot safer than others. Quick update on painting and progress: There was some slight paint bleed onto the white areas, but I was able to clean it up using an X-Acto knife — worked well for sharpening the edges. I also used a stick sander to remove paint from the contact points for the floorboards and thwarts, which I’ll be working on next. I’m thinking of using a combination of CA and PVA glue: PVA for the frame supports, and CA on the sides. Part of the reason is to avoid the tedious (and risky) job of scraping paint off the sides and potentially messing up the finish. But it’s also a learning project, and I want to test how well a painted-to-painted CA joint holds up. I find most beginners around here aren't new to modeling and are typically coming from plastics. Me being completely new to modeling, the painting is a whole new thing as well so I'm learning just as much about it than anywhere else. This was before some cleaning: The edges aren't perfect, but it turned out decent enough

I bet that would work great on something like the flying dutchman which is supposed to be old, weather, and 'ghosty', but maybe not the most realistic for a ship unless doing some derelict diorama. Just finished the final coat of paint. I might need to do some touch-ups later, but the bulk of the painting is done. Looking ahead to gluing — do most people actually sand all the contact points back to bare wood after painting? I did this on my dory and it felt pretty inefficient: paint everything, sand it back down, glue parts together, then do touch-ups. I understand bare wood is important for a strong bond, but is there a better way? I’ve thought about taping off glue spots before painting, but with all the tiny areas involved, it seems like that would just complicate things even more. Next up: the tiller. That should keep me busy while the hull paint fully cures. I may need another coat on the rudder and centerboard as well.

Looking good so far! I'm just slightly ahead of you, (though I started mid last year! ). As for the mast step, I broke my top piece in half as well. Seems like a common thing. Though I didn't put the bottom layer between the frames with the top layer across. If that's how the instructions call it, I absolutely did not catch that.

Just so I'm clear on your description. Are you saying the thinner I used to thin the paint is also used to clean the brush? (I've been thinning with water, but finally just got some proper thinner today)

Trying to keep the momentum going I made some more progress painting tonight. I probably painted for a good hour, slow and methodical. By the time I finished the initial coat, I still had plenty of paint left and other areas had dried so I just kept going back and overlapping. Not sure if that's good practice or not, but it seemed to work okay. Trying to spend a bit more time and energy on the areas that will be visible as well.

I searched around a bit. I'm finding anything from 'chemicals used in acrylic paint are bad for natural fibres' to 'natural fibres don't take to loads of water very well' as below. "The reason that synthetic brushes are often used for painting with acrylics is that the hairs are not damaged after soaking in water. The synthetic fibers also are durable if acrylic paint partially dries in the brush. Let’s face it, acrylic paint dries really fast and can subject the brush to extremely damaging conditions. The animal hair used in making natural hair brushes, on the other hand, can absorb water. Soaking these brushes in water for a long period of time can ruin the natural hairs." It sounds kind of like synthetic fibres reject the paint and natural fibres draw it up the hairs and into the ferrel. I guess this doesn't happen with oil paints because they're not water based, and don't dry so fast. Seems like drawing the water out of the acrylic would also cause the paint to dry even faster on or off the brush.

Finished the exterior with about 8 coats - looking really good. Decided to tackle the inside tonight with the first coat... All I can say is - it's a good thing a lot of this is going to be covered by floor boards and thwarts. 😳

Well.... That's interesting advice. I don't recall the type being listed I bought them. Is there a way to know by look and feel? I have no issue getting some new brushes if needed, I just want to make sure I get the right ones that'll last. I also have no idea what constitutes a 'good brush'. I generally just try to find something in the 5 to 10 dollar range. 🤷‍♀️ I mean, if there's a specific brand recommended, I have no problem just buying that to avoid getting the wrong thing. Thanks again

Appreciate the additional comments. I don't have a wire brush at the moment anyways. It's been soaking overnight, I'll clean it up and take a look shortly. Good to know it's generally not a big concern. I just ordered some proper thinner, retarder and some better paint (been using ME kit paint). I expect these to make things a bit easier, but thinking ahead, I keep wondering if investing in an airbrush would be worthwhile. I'm only working on small boats so far and in already predicting some issues with larger projects.