Jean-Pierre

while excellent kit manufacturers announce kits that never seem to come on the market (Caldercraft HMS Surprise, Amati Revenge), one tends to think about the costs involved with new designs.

On the other hand, they could easily score with updates of their existing kits, and Jotika's Mary Rose certainly would deserve the treatment.  I think not only the foredeck could be modified, but I suspect when I look at pictures of the time, that the rear decks too should be significantly higher.  And then there is the colouring that makes ships of that period such desirable modelling subjects, and which is rather absent from the original Jotika offering (flags, painting scheme...).  

I suppose this could all be scratch built with the Jotika kit as a base, but that would be a tricky business without plans.

Looks like a very interesting project by a lesser known manufacturer.  The quality looks fine , doesn't it?

Happy building and thanks for sharing your pics.

Looks like an interesting subject.  MLay I make a little suggestion?  It would be fine, especially for the lesser known ship types/model kits, to start with some picture of the box art, so that we can have an idea of what your project will strive to?  Just a suggestion, and keep sending your pics.

Happy modelling.

JP

Sorry, my mistake. It's Amati !

Glad I saw the comments by Vossy on the wood issue with a Mamoli kit.  Although I'm pretty sure this is not the case with alls their kits, I did have the same problem of very brittle second planking wood.

I personally would go either for Corel or for Artesania, as these are the more recently researched reproductions of the SM.

Anyway, from whwat I read on the subject, SM was built around 1465, and should have a round butt like the carracks of that time.  She probably had no gun ports, and had no rear mounted lantern.  She would at the most, have a SQUARE small topsail at the main mast

I would build the Corel model which has the best "looks" and also has the finest models made from their kit!(but I would modify her "butt", which should not be too difficult (just replacing the lower part of the rearmost lower bulkhead by a suitable block of balsa.

Happy modelling ... and happy discovery voyage with your Santa Maria

Aren't those planks glued to each other side by side?  If they are, I think you can hold them at the same level by holding each plank next to the formeer one ...with a cloth peg, provided the planks have previously been tapered, beveled, and if necessary bent sideways.

What a great choice of a model, a pleasant change from the Victory, and probably an eve, more beautiful ship.  Congratulations.

Mamoli may not be the best provider of woods, but I had excellent (and easy) results by just running a felt tip black marker along one of the sides of each plank, but NOT on the butt ends or the ink would bleed into the wood.  For these I use a black pencil on both ends of the plank.  Also note that for a clean result, the plank sides should be slightly sanded to get a nice, flat edge.

A mix of different plank colours looks beautiful on a model, but it was not like that on the real thing I'm afraid.  I must admit I did just the same as you on my last model, but afterwards I found the contrast too sharp.  So after sanding, I painted the whole deck with a very light grey wash which preserved all the detail and also toned down the exagerated colour differences.

Thanks for the excellent build log and I'm looking forward to your pics.

Happy modelling

JP

As a general problem, I wonder if decks in those days were planked with nicely parallel planks.  On the full size reconstruction of Hermione (a frigate that was more or less contemporary to the Royal Louis, the planks are taperes gradually to end up parallel to the ship sides.  The same layout has been used by Chris Watton for his kit of the Russian Mercury (Victory/Amati Models). I felt free to use this pattern on my last model (Dutch Whaler), and it turned out easier than I had thought...  Just a thought, because your planking looks great.

Funny to see a Snipe being built.  By the way, I remember seeing these dinghies sailing through the 1950's: they were very nice sailers, but if I remember well, they were fairly heavy (around 150 Kg if I remember well), and were then soon to be outclassed by the upcoming fiberclass hulls. Are there still Snipes sailing ?  I wonder!

Nice to see you building one!

Look at the boxes: the Roman and Carthagenian ships are at 1/72, while the two others are 1/35.

Thanks for the link: the ships look interesting and it would be fine to hear more about what looks like wooden kits.

I personally have never run out of wood planks, certainly not fopr the second planking.  I have read comments about some Corel or Constructo kits of the cheaper ranges, that include just the right amount of wood...

But of course, I think one should think during the building about using the right lengths of wood at the right place.  For instance, second planking veneer need not necessarily be glued in one full length.  If you plank the hull with 2 or 3 strips i.o. one long strip, you will most certainly nicely finish the hull and keep a nice bunch of spare planks, whatever the kit brand.  And the Mare Nostrum is most probably a hull that would benefit from using shorter lengths of veneer.

Just an idea.

Isn't the Fly coming with metal gun carriages, which make the addition of accurate gun rigguing almost impossible?  If so, that would for me be reason enough to choose for Pegasus.

JP

Note: the various build logs on this site are a tremendous opportunity to have a good insight into these two excellent kits.

May I suggest that you have a look at the build log of the Superbe at http://pete-coleman.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=49&sid=00549a28577e31ae1ef0d406db1ca983.

I do not mean that you should reach the exceptional quality of this model (although I bet you could!) but there surely are quite a few tips to be found there.

But you'll have to register to this forum!

Happy building.  Also, Mr Tilley made a (very critical) review of this kit, but in my opinion, this is along with the Phenix, the Royal Louis and the Pourquoi Pas?, the best small scale ship kit Heller ever produced.

Have fun!

JP

Happy building and...let's see that build log.

JP

As said before, the best points for Euromdel are, I think:

- their excellent plans

- their unusual subjects

- their far better than average castings

Now I understand that to make these kits really enjoyable subjects, you had better have some experience, and be willing to make the eventual changes that you feel necessary.  Master plastic modellers, for instance, almost never build straight from the bos, and I suppose wooden ship modellers do the same: that is the fun of modelling.  If you want to make a beautiful model straight from the bos, then go Caldercraft or Victory models. But if you want to extend your skills, and BUILD SOMETHING DIFFERENT, then Eurommodel can be your choice.

Now items like the anchors are in my modest opinion hard to modify, being metal items.  I suppose that most modellers would rather buy new items than trying to improve on the kit items: it is a detail, but at that price level, and compared to the castings....

The Occre Palamos has a rather more inticate hull shape than the Pilar.  I Like the Palamos because a few months ago, I saw a very similar fishing boat laying dry in L'Ametla del Mar in Spain.  But if Hemingway is one of your favorite writers (he should be) then go for the Pilar.  I suppose you could have fun detailing the cabin.

Constructo has not got the best reputation for the quality of their wood, and Occre is a fairly young actor on the market.  But the Pilar is one of Constructo's latest models, so both kits should be up to the latest requirements.

But as Norman suggests, Caldercraft, Euromodel, and yes, Model Shipways, you will no doubt be even more happy...

Happy choice, and have fun!

JP

Thank you for the answer on the anchors.  I can see that you also felt that something had to be done about them.  The point is that considering the high level of quality of these kits, it is a shame that so poorly deviced items are actually included.  A shame because even excellent modellers are tempted to use kit parts as they come.  I download quite a few build log pictures and here is a pic of the kit items for the Renommée, and the resulting item on the model.  Then here is also a picture of a Japanese built Mordaunt.  Both superb models,  ... except for the anchors.  (Please note that my pics of the Derflinger show much better anchors)

I just paid a visit to the Euromodel site.  Really excellent: site, excellent models, and a very open minded company to show what can be done with their kits, and last but not least, the extra explanations readily available on their site.

Drawbacks for Euromodel kits are:

-there is no Victory in their range

-there is neither a Bounty or an Endeavour or a Cutty Sark

-some parts of their kits seem -strangely enough- rather rude (Ex; their thick anchors and pinrails)

-some of their smaller kits, like the Derflinger or the Hanseatic Kogge, do not quite reach the high level of their larger models, but then they can be improved, of course.

I am definitely putting this brand on my wish list!

These Woody Joe kits look excellent, but make sure that they come with instructions in English!!!

Is this model going to replace the current Amati Greek Warship?  See build log at http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/3985-bireme-greek-warship-480-bc-auvergne-amati-scale-135/

Chris, your model not only looks much longer, but no doubt it will also be quite large with the row ranks.  By the way, is the existing 1/1 model a good

reference?

JP

Let me add a last word.  It should be said that the Caldercraft kit is by far more recent than the Euromodel Royal William.  Keith Julier made a review of the RW in the first issue of his "Period Ship Handbook, which I found in the 70's in Londen.

I would certainly go for the Royal William for A simple reason: there are dozens of kits of Victory, and more to come, and I am sure, many thousands of builds have been or are being made of her.  Nothing wrong with that, but if you want to make a model that stands out of the crowd, then the choice is Royal William.

And even if I've never built one of these kits, I know that indeed their metal decoration parts are way better than what you see in other Italian kits.  Only a few details aask for some refining like anchors and pinrails, but then this is indeed a very unimportant detail.

Happy modelling

JP

P.S.  an unexperienced modeller could find it frustrating to see so many details on the plans that are not included in the package, but I'm sure all the exterior detail is included.

I happened to have a rather extensive number of Model Boats issues.  As I am moving to a smaller places, all this litterature has been thrown away.  But the articles by Mr Julier and some others I scanned, and yes, there were quite a few of them.  And I also have his first book.

Here are some of my scans:

Agamemnon, Amati lifeboats, Armed Pinnace, Bellona, Berlin, Bounty, Bounty Jolly Boat, Britannia, Caravela Portuguesa, Clara May, Convulsion, Cruizer, Elbe, Endeavour, Endeavour Yacht, Granado Amati, Granado Jotika, Gunboat William, Hanna, Fly, Holly, Hussard, John Alden Sloop, La Renommée, Lancha Bombardeira, Leida, Mars, Neptune(2), Panart whaling Boat, Portsmouth, Pride of Baltimore, Royal Caroline, Saint-Gilles, San Felipe(2), San Juan Nepomuceno, Unicorn, Victory(2), Viola(2), Yacht Chatham.

And that's only part of his work, which he produced a an impressive rate of about 1 model every 2 months, and yes the quality is excellent.

By the way, I wonder if he's still around.  Does anyone know.

I also have a few reviews by other authors, but please, do not ask me for copies: first these are all very large PDF files, which my internet connection would not accept, and second,  this is copyrighted material anyway.

I looked at the place available in my studio for this model, but then I thought I'd better choose the 1/570 scale model by Revell

I am afraid the really important parts are missing and there is not much you can do with this half kit.  It looks though like a french fishing tuna ship, plans of which can readily be bought in France, and probably in Britain as well.  Or you could find kits of that ship with Artesania and others for sure.

JP

I haven't built this particular model, but from your pictures, it looks like the plan told you to place a first plank as per the drawing.  Yet it looks like your first planks sits much lower along the hull and slopes much more sharply to the bow.  I fear if you proceed like you did, the planks will be almost impossible to lay cleanly next to each other (clinker effect).

JP

Just a little word here.  The Amati Vanguard may have one drawback, and that is the metal gun carriages, to which it is very difficult to attach the gun rigging.  But maybe there is an upgrade kit to replace these carriages.

I don't know if it is still available, but Model Shipways made their own kit of the Vanguard (under license from Amati) so that could be an interesting alternative for you (shipping costs)

I am pretty sure that the Diana kit would be a more difficult challenge, but in my opinion this is one of the most elegant ship models available for the time being.  (and looking at your avatar, you look like a man of challenges )

But first, finish you beautiful Santa Maria, OK ?

JP