ianmajor

Mike,

My pleasure. The discussion has greatly increased my knowledge as well. Any further info you get would be gratefully received.

Re my being brave - a case of fool's rush in...........perhaps.

Mike,

If you look closely at the NMM Lyme plan (zoom in as much as possible) you will see the hidden detail such as decks, companionway ladders etc marked faintly in red. The quarter deck is shown in line with the upper part of the main mast dead eyes and lower down in relation to the mizzen dead eyes. The red lines for the quarter deck end behind the foremost main mast dead eye. The gallows are also shown in red just ahead of the main mast. The quarter deck does not reach this far. The line of the upper deck can be seen in red just below the main gun ports.

There are other pointers that make me believe the Corel deck layout is inaccurate/fanciful.

1) The pump being positioned well aft up on the quarter deck. Would the ships designers place a pump at the highest point on the decks well aft of the lowest part of the hull where the bulk of the bilge water would lie? The pump mechanism and pipe in this position would pass through the main cabin. It would also get in the way of commanding the ship.

2) The position of the stove flue to one side of the foredeck. I am sure the designers would not put a heavy item like that to one side of the keel line (other heavy items like cannon are in balancing pairs each side of the keel line). Besides having the stove to one side on a fairly small ship would interfere with the operation of the cannon in that area.   

As my wife would say - all good fun so long as no-one loses an eye.

Mark,

Welcome to our Mare's nest!

Before I discovered MSW my ship modeling life was blissfully simple. I had but one problem on my Corel kit. A plastic molding for the rigging did not match the diagrams, which in turn did not match the instructions. So I looked to the Web to find an answer. Result - my ship ended up with an identity crisis! I blame MSW for getting me hooked on naval research.           

During the 18th century there were many Unicorns. We had a British Unicorn captured by the French - who renamed it Licorne. A new British Unicorn was built only for the old one to be recaptured. 

I came to the conclusion that the Corel Unicorn was the British 1748 one based on the leading dimensions and armament being the closest match. The current artwork on the Corel kit box gives a date of 1790. It appears that as the age of the kit increases so does date of the prototype. I calculate at this rate that by 2040 Corel will claim that this ship was lunched at the time of Trafalgar!

Mike,

I think the lines of the portholes on the kit are determined by the line of the quarter deck which in my humble opinion is too low. The quarter deck should step up from the waist area by about 4mm which would then line them up as per the Chapman plan. 

If you look at the Lyme plans you will see the port holes shown as complete circles breaking above the top of the solid bulwarks. If you look closely you will also see a line above that which I interpret as rail above the open portion of the bulwark.

The last link you supplied was very interesting - in particular the reference to Chapman being accused of spying, that the Unicorn (1748) plans are missing and it is alleged that he stole them.   

So this thread has turned into a compilation of resources for the Corel Unicorn   

Oh dear.

Oh well here is more then. The model in the photo is very well executed and looks a real treat. I notice the date of 1762 on the plate!

I have compared its rigging with the Corel instructions and it appears that it is as per the instructions. There appear to be some very basic additional running rigging to fit the sails. I don't think the mizzen mast would have had the lower (square) sail. This model is certainly good for a guideline if you go down the "sail" route.

The thing that spoils it for me are the dreadful Corel flags.

Thanasis,

You are making a stunning model. Beautiful.

By the way - there is no such thing as cheating in model making - just alternate ways of doing things.  

Mike,

Nice idea. The running rigging as per the Corel instructions does not include the parts to handle the sails. Peter rigged his Unicorn using info from Lennarth Petersson's book "Rigging Period Ship Models" which gives a better basis to fit sails. I was going to get the Lees book for rigging, but the price tag frightened me. 

If you do fit sails it will look very impressive.

Jack,

Very nice work. The ship is developing well. I will be interested to see how the planking goes in the not too distant future.

Chris,

I applaud your sentiment. New technology is good for churning out repetitive items but to my eyes it all comes out cold, efficient and lifeless. It is the small variations that are produced by the craftsmen which produce the warmth and life around models. The same applies to music - compare a studio pre-recorded concert with "lip synching" artist(?) with a genuine live performance - high tech versus real talent - I know which I prefer.

Urb,

Go for it!   

Why not start a build log yourself and raise the flag for Yorkshire?  I think MSW would benefit from a more card build logs.

Have you seen the Royal Caroline by Doris? If not look at http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/854-royal-caroline-by-doris-card-1749-140/page-1 and prepare to have your mind blown. She demonstrates that card is no second class modeling medium.

Another of my favourites is Revenge by Firdajan at http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/2059-revenge-by-firdajan-shipyard-card-1577-196/page-1.

Looking forward to your input.

Mike,

I have not seen this one before. The workmanship is very good. In deed it looks to have no modifications. There are extra details like crew and barrels.

The transom detail is the later variant as per your instance of the kit. The flags are the post 1801 version as supplied with the kit ie the union flag has red diagonals which is the version post unification of Ireland. The flags that were supplied with my ancient kit were poor. Apart from being wrong period, the red diagonal lines were on the centre line of the white diagonals rather than being correctly offset. Something else to be replaced in the kit.

Piet,

Your last photo gives a good idea of the scale of your model. It is very impressive.

Mike,

I have no plans of Lowestoft but the photos on NMM give plenty of detail. That photo of Pegasus gives a feel for how the deck area should be - in my view.

For the deck layout I got clues from the NMM held plans of Lyme at http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/385550.html gives a side view. Use the "slider" to the right of the illustrated plan to zoom to maximum. If you look closely the layout of the decks, companionways etc are shown as red lines. If you then look below this plan in the "related media" box you will see a second plan. Click on this and it will give you the layout of the Upper (main gun) deck. There are differences with Unicorn which can be considered later.  

I filled in detail by referencing Chuck's plans for Winchelsea at http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/99-hms-winchelsea-by-chuck-1764-english-32-gun-frigate-pob-164/page-1

I will be attacking the waist of my Unicorn in a few weeks time. It may end up as a model of the Unicorn as it was at the wreckers yard.

Mike,

Interesting photos. The transom/gallery detail is much changed over the earlier variants of the kit (mine was produced 1974). The components to go above and below the galleries are the same. The windows on the early kits were separate blue plastic castings. All in all they look much improved. 

Changes have taken place on the artwork of the box containing the kit. On the first kits there was no mention of scale (in fact nowhere in the instructions was scale mentioned - so I had to calculate it) nor was there any date. The only date for the ship appears on plan sheet 1 where it states the ship was 1762! There was a British Unicorn in 1771 but that was a smaller post ship. I think Coral got themselves confused because they believed that the Unicorn of the model was built to a design of Chapman when in fact he documented the design after the event. Hence their historical info is pure rubbish.   

My view is that Coral have confused two Unicorn frigates resulting in a hull that is mid 18th century with an early 19th century deck area design from a much larger ship. (Still a very nice model though).    

Regarding the lack of ship's boats - this may have been part of a simplification of the kit design.

There are practical issues. I am using pictures of the NMM 1761 model of Lowestoft as a modeling guide. (See http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66300.html ). The Lowestoft class of frigates were direct, slightly larger descendants of the Lyme class. These pictures show a ship's boat stowed in the waist area. The NMM plans of the Lyme show the Corel model has an inaccurate waist area. On the Corel model it is fairly enclosed and if you place a ship's boat there it would completely obstruct access to the main gun deck - in fact it would not fit between the fife rails.

I am going to open up the waist area to allow more interesting detail, eg stove, chain pumps plus this will allow me to add a boat.

Note the contemporary NMM Lowestoft model is white below the waterline. 

Mike,

I think Peter has covered the cannon. I have bought some Caldercraft swivel guns. They are actually 1:64 scale so slightly too long (by about 2mm too long). They are next on my construction plan so I will let you know how they work out.

Mike,

The Unicorn above had no coppering or paint below the water line. I think Peter's has the lower part of the hull painted white. It is stunning.

Another area of modification that is worth looking at is the planking above the Upper deck (main gun deck). If built as per the instructions you have basewood planking, with "decorative" planking on the outer and inner faces. The joins between the planks on the three layers deliberately do not line up which gives the bulwarks their integrity. The problem with this arrangement is that all the grain runs fore and aft so the bulwarks are very flexible. Mine have a tendency to bow out as a result. It is worth considering using some form of vertical ribs in this area (as in the POF builds) along with planking the inside of the gun deck. This would involve some modifications fairly early on in the build. 

Enough of my off topic ramblings. I will watch out for your build log and grab a front seat.

Jack,

Nice work. This is developing in to a lovely ship.

By the way - that is an interesting tap featuring in your photos - I have not seen one like it before. It would make a good figurehead for a ship.   

Mike,

Some of the references that I used are in my 4th posting in the Unicorn log.

I hope you start a log on your Unicorn soon. I would be interested in seeing some photos of the transom, gun carriage and other components before construction starts. 

The only paint on my ship is around the metal/plastic moldings so I can't comment on paint schemes. However if you look at Peter Visser's Unicorn in the gallery (link further back up this thread) you will see an example of a model that has been painted. I am sure if you do start a log Peter will look in and offer advice (he is very helpful and supportive).

There was another Unicorn build log which was lost with MSW 1.0 from which I have a few photos. I would like to credit the builder but unfortunately I don't know his name or if he is still a member. His log showed construction of the hull. (If you recognize the build as yours, perhaps we can prevail upon you to publish other photos of the build.    ) This example was painted around the deck areas but mainly used the natural colour of the supplied woods externally.

Here are some photos taken from that log.

Pete,

Some dimensions supplied by Andrew Baines (Curator of HMS Victory) in one of the other posts were as follows:

The dimensions given in the order diameter at the head, diameter at the bilge, height.

Barrel ---- 1' 9" ---- 2' 1" ---- 2’ 7”

Hogshead ---- 1’ 11” ---- 2’ 4” ---- 3’ 0”

Puncheon ---- 2’ 1” ---- 2’ 4” ---- 3’ 5”

All were circular in section.

Mike,

I agree with Brian on the planking. The hull has two layers of planking. For the outer layer below the gun ports the kit supplies mahogany. You can make a reasonable job with this but it is coarse grain and prone to splitting. The other planking was fine particularly if you are not going to paint your model. 

I found the Unicorn instructions OK - they are unintentionally amusing in places. There are plenty of good non scale diagrams to augment the 2 plan sheets and instructions. There are errors and contradictions - though these are easy to spot.

The historical notes - best have a good laugh at these then throw them away they are total nonsense - Corel appear to be confusing 2 different Unicorn ships giving the model a bit of an identity crisis.

Pete, 

At 1:72 scale I think your best bet is to turn them up from solid.

Have a look at thread http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1941-hints-on-painting-rings-on-barrels/?hl=barrel%2A which might give you some help to you. It starts with a question on how to paint the hoops on molded casks. It develops into the recommendation to remove the molded hoops then how to replace them with nearer to scale hoops. You could turn up the basic cask, score the plank lines then use the thread info to detail the cask.

There is also a useful thread on cask sizes at http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/138-re-post-of-info-on-barrelcasks-sizes/?hl=barrel%2A (barrel being a specific measure when it's not part of a cannon!  ).   

Mike,

I have a build log for the Unicorn on the go (link below) which may be helpful. On the second page there is a picture of the Unicorn made by Danny Page which is very nicely executed. There is a lovely completed Unicorn by Peter Visser in the Gallery at http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/227-hms-unicorn/  plus in there is another illustrated in Bob Riddoch's thread on the 38th Rope Exhibition in Japan, see http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1710-38th-the-rope-exhibition-tokyo-japan/page-2?hl=japan about 6 photos down. 

There were two other Unicorn build logs by Peter V and another but sadly these disappeared with MSW 1.0. 

Hope this is helpful.

There is also a "Tour of the Mary Rose Artifacts" at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17605592 and an item including archive of the raising of the Mary Rose plus the construction of the museum http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22713924

I watched the raising of the ship on live TV. As the wreck started to clear the surface, one of the supporting lines parted and the whole thing lurched downwards breaking off some of the old timbers. For a moment everyone thought that it was all about to end in disaster. Fortunately the other lines withstood their extra load so all was well.
 

There have been some interesting items on BBC news relating to the new Mary Rose museum building in Portsmouth.

See http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-22639505 for a BBC on line item.

Robbyn,

I will be watching this build with interest. I am preparing to build a longboat or pinace from scratch for my ship - so all pointers will be useful to me.

Ed,

Beautiful work. Many thanks for taking the time to publish it.