Mayflower by RichieG - Model Shipways MS2020

[Tigersteve]

Mike has a very good log on this build. I'm sure you've seen it. It should help you. 

Steve

 

 

[RichieG]

If you imagine a keel and stempiece glued on top of the rabbet strip, and those pieces being wider that the rabbet strip, then there would be a little notch to tuck a plank into. In this model, I think you are right, those pieces are meant to be glued on after the first layer of planking is done, so we won't be able to 'tuck'. And, they are 1/8" wide, which is the same width as the rabbet strip, so it wouldn't quite work even if we glued them on before.

And, thanks, Steve, I've seen that log, and I agree it is very good. It's comment number 17 on that log where Chuck suggested thinning at the bearding line to less than the 3/32" that the instruction recommend.

[jbshan]

Gentlemen, I think you will find that, going into the rabbet, the plank will need a 'point' with the longer side to the inside.  This can help keep the hood ends snugly into the rabbet, but things need still to fit properly.  I would suggest not trying to go full length with the planks, but keep them to the region of 20 feet or so, to fit the spacing of the bulkheads.  You will need to have the width changing, wider in the middle of the hull and narrower at the ends, and it is easier to do this with shorter planks.  Also, when you reach that point, if you have to fit a plank into both a stem and sternpost rabbet, working from the ends toward the middle is about the only way to go.  There are some threads on this forum covering the process.  Just use the search feature.

Perhaps again OBE. 

[Captain Al]

Thanks for joining this conversation about rabbets, Joel.  I agree that working with shorter planks is much easier; I intend to use 3 for the full length.  When doing so though you have to be careful that the end pieces have not been tapered at their mid ship (or inboard) end.  They have to butt against the middle plank and that one will probably be full width.  I think Chuck suggests starting a taper about 3 inches from the bow and stern.  Whatever it may be that is the point I will end the middle plank so the butt joint is equal in width.

 

I doubt I will fully understand the issue of what the rabbet is supposed to do and if there is a difference between its function in real life and its semi-function on this model.  I do know that in real life a groove or rabbet is chiseled into the keel at varying angles to the keel.  The angle gets steeper as it moves toward the stern.  The garboard plank slots into this rabbet and obviously holds it more secure than if it wasn't there.

 

On some models and most good scratch builds this same process is done, albeit in mini scale.  The garboard actually slots into the keel.  But on this Mayflower kit the "rabbet" is not a groove really.  Its more like....well its just a narrower strip of wood placed exactly down the middle of the keel (false keel or bulkhead former if you will).  What I envision is that when the garboard plank is laid it will butt against this strip.  Since the angle of the butt changes as you move forward and aft, the edge of the plank will have to be beveled cause the rabbet is at 90 degrees to the keel.  Now I was once told that I'm the only one who would think about beveling a .8mm plank to conform to the angle of the previous plank laid, nonetheless this is how I envision it if its necessary.  Laying down the garboard against the rabbet and then running more planks up the bow and stern to meet the rabbet, does not leave me with a vision of tucking or slotting these planks into any groove.  At best this rabbet provides a tiny bit more glue surface when the edge of the plank meets the rabbet.  And that is if you work from fore and aft and make this butt joint.  If you go the other way and don't cut those planks damn precisely, there isn't even going to be that.

 

Now take all this with a grain of salt.  I may be way off base.  I may have missed something along the way.  Misread and not followed instructions well.  So please, correct me if I'm wrong and there should be a real rabbet created on the keel for the planks to secure into.

[jbshan]

No, I think you have the right of it.  But this is a first layer of plank, yes?  The second layer will develop a true rabbet or a simulation of one.  You still need to cut your plank pretty precisely, if nothing else, for a good fit and maximum gluing surface.

[Tigersteve]

Remember- Chuck planked one layer on the prototype and painted it. His end result speaks for itself. 

Steve 

[Captain Al]

I hadn't considered that there would be a second planking that would somehow interact with the first and with this rabbet to create a real rabbet.  I have a lot to learn.  I'm actually hoping to do as nice a job as I can on the first planking, then paint it and forget the second -- other than above.

[Tigersteve]

My thoughts exactly!

Steve

[jbshan]

As I read the instructions, the topsides were double planked and the underwater body single planked.  The second layer was beveled down to meet the thickness of the first layer at the wale, which, when added on top concealed the meeting place.  It also shows quite short plank lengths in the second layer, pp 17, 18.

[RichieG]

The new basswood bulkhead former is working fine. I've put in all of the bulkheads, all of the filler pieces, and the dummy cannon strip.

I've painted the dummy strip black with some acrylic paint from Michael's. I used two coats, and it looks pretty black, which is all I could have hoped for. While I had the paint and brush out, I decided to paint as many black things at once as I could think of (because I hate cleaning the brushes, and I want to do it as few times as possible.) So, the recess in the port foremast fillers, the window in bulkhead 4, and the three windows in the YY stern piece.

I wanted to make as 'graceful' a curve over the counter in the stern as possible, and that required significant recontouring of the bottom of piece YY. I'm not completely satisfied with it, but I may leave it as is. I might try to file it down a bit more.

I also made a very rudimentary stab at fairing the hull. I filed down the first few bulkheads at the bow down by the rabbet strip. I have a picture of the side I didn't do followed by the side I did. My goal was to get the bottoms of the bulkheads and filler pieces to follow the contour of the bottom of the BF. It's a start, but there's much more to go, obviously.

[Captain Al]

I like seeing you back at work and I like what you've done.  Lots of char left indicating lots of fairing to go.  I can't offer any advice on this except what I've already noted on my log: don't be surprised at how much wood needs to come off from various bulkheads; especially toward the stern and bow (and particularly #5).  And take it slow and keep going back to areas you may have thought were already done.  Use those bulwark templates as battens as well.

 

I'd suggest that you put in the eyebolt now before you put a lid over the hole.  I wish I'd painted all at once.  I used the only black paint I have which is Rust-o-leum.  Its a cleanup pain much worse than any acrylic.  I have to start thinking about paint and brushes and all that sometime soon.

 

I see ZZ on there.  Looks pretty square.  Is it perfect?  Did you use spacers to glue them on or just eyeball it?  The 'graceful curve' looks very nice; shouldn't give you any planking problems.  I would not accentuate the camber of xx, yy and zz any more than necessary.  The more curve there is the more issues with the planking later. 

[RichieG]

I didn't put spaces behind ZZ, but I did measure the distance from it to bulkhead 5 on both sides before the glue was dry. It needed some adjustment, so I thank you for mentioning it before.

[RichieG]

I'm just noticing that it's been 2 1/2 months since I've posted anything on the mayflower, mainly because I've been preoccupied with other things. But I have been picking away at the dreaded faring of the hull, and I think I've finally gotten it done, or close enough that I can proceed with other things.

I did put in the gun port framing prior to fairing, as the framing needs to be faired along with the hull (pic 1).

After that, I glued on the false decks (pic 2). As Al pointed out on his mayflower build log, I did find that the 4B bulkhead was about 3 mm wider than the false deck at that point, and I followed his lead and sanded the bulkhead to match the false deck. If there was any question about the deck fitting (and there often was), I used the laser-etched center line as a guide, rather than the edges of the deck. The deck edges got sanded down to be flush with the bulkheads wherever necessary.

I then put the first planking on the counter (pic 3,4). This was interesting, as I tried to give the 'graceful' curve that is called for in the instructions, but it's a bit clunky to try to make a graceful curve out of a bunch of straight planks placed edge to edge. I did bevel the front edges of some of the upper ones to minimize gaps. I then sanded and used elmers wood filler, and sanded again. (Note: there is a hole in the counter that I think is meant to allow the tiller to pass through eventually, and the instructions imply that you should plank the counter, and then drill a hole in it and file out the rectangular hole. I found it more efficient to leave the gap in the planking to approximate the hole (by using two shorter planks at the sides of the second level) and then increase the hole to full size with a file.)

I then put the second layer of planking over the counter and the piece called ZZ. I used a pencil to simulate caulking, and I think it looks ok.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RichieG]

[RichieG]

I was kind of afraid to go ahead and start the hull planking, because I'm not sure that the fairing is ever really finished, but I guess I have to start some time.

I did as the instructions said, as far as pinning the bulwark template to both sides and marking its bottom in order to define the top of the first row. It lined up pretty closely to the laser marks on the bulkheads, but there were some discrepancies, which, I guess is why this step is necessary.

 

We're told to taper the front 3 inches of each strip to 80% of its initial width, but, the picture in the manual looks like the first strip went in full width, so I started tapering with the second one. (I think I may have tapered more than 80%, but we're talking less than a 32th of an inch here, and it's hard to be precise. I tried to err on the side of tapering more, with the thought that I can use some full width strips down the way if it needs more coverage.)

 

It was strongly suggested by some that I use filler blocks at the bow, but I chose not to, mostly out of inexperience and laziness. I wet the strips and clamped them in place on the model, and let them dry overnight. They held the curve quite well, with almost no spring back. That being said, I think if I ever had to do this again, I would use the filler blocks, as the planking at the bow is anything but smooth. There are step-offs at each row that will need to be filled and sanded down. But, as they say, all this will be covered up soon enough...

 

I cut the planks around the gun ports as best as I could, but it's harder to keep things square than I thought it would be.

 

I took some pictures of the first 7 rows from the front, middle, and back.

 

I decided to try laying in one of the garboard planks at this point, because it seems like a bit of a process. I used the supplied 3/16" wide strip (50% wider than the rest of the planking), and tapered the front as shown in the manual. I figured that if the next row would be notched over the blunt front end of the garboard plank, then I'd need the front end to be not more than half of the width of the 1/8" wide strips, so I tried to get it to around 1/16". It did require some real bending to push the front end up against the rabbet strip, but I didn't wet it. (I just pushed it in place, and held it until the CA glue took purchase.)

 

a picture of the front end of the garboard is also here.

[RichieG]

I'm adding a plank on each side more or less once a day, so I'm up to 9 rows now. I admit that the bow is pretty rough, but I think wood filler and sanding will make a solid surface for the second layer. I also am continuing building off of the garboard plank on one side (I'm limiting it to one side for now to see how it goes, before I commit to the other side.) My goal is to try to get continuous rows of planks all the way from stem to stern, so I'm keeping an eye on the remaining gap up at the bow and amidships. (I know I'll need some stealers at the stern, but that's another story). So far, I think that if I keep tapering the bow planks as I have been, it should work out pretty close.

 

While I'm waiting for planks to dry, I've moved ahead to some of the deck fixings. I made the outer casing for the hatch on the upper deck, and laid in the gratings on one third of it. I did go to the trouble of making lap joints for the coamings, which was actually kind of fun (although I think it won't be seen in the finished product.) For some reason, I decided not to cross-hatch the grating, and I just laid strips on their side. That made the grating thinner, so I did put a 1/32" strip underneath the grating to support it (that's what I was trying to show in the kind of blurry picture.) I think it looks ok like that; honestly it's kind of hard to tell the difference between the real interlaced gratings and the 'just laying there' ones, at least for me.

[RichieG]

I've been working on both the hull and the deck at the same time (I have a lot of down time while letting the hull planks dry.)

I've almost gotten the hull planked, and I did manage to pretty much achieve my goal of getting a complete run from bow to stern. (it won't really matter, as much of it will be covered up by another layer of planking, but I wanted to see if I could plan ahead well enough to make it work.) My main approach was to keep measuring the gap at each bulkhead as I went, and to use stealers where the gap was bigger.

There's room for one more hull plank on the starboard side, but it's going to have to be cut to fit that irregular gap. It's actually wider than 1/8" near the bow (due to my overzealous tapering of the planks in that area), so I'm going to use some leftover 3/16" plank in that area (leftover from the garboard plank). I have room for about 3 more rows on the port side, but I think I'll run into the same issue.

In the meantime, I've glued on the gratings and planked pretty much the whole deck (there's one piece left to go on one edge, but it's practically impossible to tell from the picture.) I did use a number 1 pencil for the caulking, and I put it one both sides of each plank (the instructions say to put it on one, but I think that was a little subtle). I am going to treenail the deck. The plan is to drill 0.8mm holes, spin a pencil point in them, and fill them with elmers wood putty, and sand it down flat. Then, I'll stain the whole deck with probably a half natural/half golden oak minwax stain.

updates to follow, with any luck...

 

 

[Tigersteve]

It's coming along, Rich. This one looks difficult to plank. I'm assuming you're not planning to paint if you're going for a second layer?

Steve

[RichieG]

I'm leaning away from painting the bottom of the hull white at this point. (I'm open to options at this point, but I was thinking of staining it). I do want to paint the upper part the colors that are described in the manual.

And thanks for checking in. I'm probably gonna need some help soon enough...

[RichieG]

I've been working on the mayflower sporadically, but I've been very lazy with updating the log. (I noticed that someone else is planning to start this kit, so I wanted to update the log in case it might be helpful.)

 

As far as teenailing, I went the route of drilling holes (I think it was with a .6 or .8 mm drill bit), rubbing a sharp pencil tip along the edges, and filling with wood filler. Then staining the whole thing with a 50/50 mix of minwaxes natural/golden oak. These pictures show images along the process. The stain brings out the treenails nicely, I think (they are fairly subtle in the pre-stain stage)

[RichieG]

I glued on the bulwarks (or what I'd call the 'side pieces') uneventfully (I thought). I think they were meant to line up with the tops of the forward bulkhead and the transom, but I found that I was over an eighth of an inch low in the front, and over an eighth of an inch high in the back. I was left with the option of raising the side piece in front and lowering it in back, or raising the transom and lowering the forward bulkhead. I opted in both cases to leave the side pieces as they were, and to alter the front and back to match.

(the pictures show the forward bulkhead well above the bulwark before alteration, and then the forward bulkhead sanded down to match. In the picture of the back of the boat, you can hopefully see where the transom originally ended, and where it was built up. The new top pieces don't have treenails in them.)

Edited March 6, 2018 by RichieG
mistake

[RichieG]

I started putting in the stanchions at the stern of the ship first, and worked my way forward. (I'm a bit less than halfway done with them.) The first picture also shows the great bulkhead and the poop bulkhead in place, with the window and door hardware. I skipped ahead a bit, and put the deck beam in front of the great cabin bulkhead (you can see that in the first picture too). The first two pictures also show the deck with treenails after staining, which I think brings it out nicely.

The third picture shows the side windows and the preplanking on one side.

[Tigersteve]

Looks like you’re getting there. 

Steve

[LCdr Dave]

Coming along nicely!

Cheers,

Dave

[Tim W]

On 3/24/2017 at 2:33 PM, RichieG said:

I must say that I think it was a wise decision to pre-bevel the bottom 3 lifts before gluing all of the lifts together. I glued them together sequentially, starting with lifts 2 and 3, and was able to fine-tune the internal beveling without the bottom of the boat in the way. Then, I added lift 4, and filed/sanded the whole thing a bit more. (The instructions say to glue them all together and sand the outside first, but I think this approach made it much easier to get into the inside bottom, particularly at the front and back.) After I added all six upper lifts, I glued on the bottom one (lift 1), and gave the inside another pass with the file and sandpaper. After this, it was easy to sand/file the outside contour and remove the little registration pieces on the front and back.

There is a contour to the top of the boat, which is described on the plans, where the front is higher than the back, and the middle dips down. I copied the heights from the plans onto the model, and carved away the upper part, and file it down smooth. Looking down at it from the top, I can see that the front and back walls are thicker than the sides, and, as the instructions say "try to establish a consistent thickness for the hull", I think I will use a dremel with a diamond burr to thin out the insides of the front and the back. (I think the outside contour is pretty much done once all the ridges between the lifts are filed away, so I'm only going to remove material from the inside now.

(the first three pictures are before contouring the top, and the next three are after. I tried to show the model nest to the full size plans from the side, front, and then a top down view which shows how there's some thinning to do on the inside of the bow and stern.)

After that, there are instructions to add internal keel and frames, floor boards, risers, thwarts, and a cap rail. But it does say to try to stain or paint the interior before doing most of that, as it will be tough to do after. So I need to decide whether to stain or paint, and what color to use. I think I want to stain it and let as much natural wood show through; I think I've seen Chuck Passaro use golden oak stain from minwax on some of his ships (this model was designed by him), so I may get some of that from the Home Depot. I'm not really sure what sanding sealer is for, but I might put some of that on before the stain, and then the wipe-on-poly seems to be popular to top it off. I'm certainly open to advice on prestain, stain, and finishing, though (hint, hint...)

Wish I had thought of that.  By the time you get the seats and frames in you can't see much of the inside anyway!  Not completely happy with my oars, can't decide to toss them start over  or just forget them all together?