Glory of the Seas 1869 by rwiederrich - FINISHED - 1/96 - medium clipper

[rwiederrich]

Pointers are the long beams bent along the forward and aft sections of the hull....namely an attempt to diminish *Hogging*

 

Metal lattice replaced these timbers.  You can see the cross members on the second deck, between the knees, as was evident in the Glory image.

 

Rob

Edited February 11, 2021 by rwiederrich

[ClipperFan]

4 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Pointers may be diagonal riders that extend across the hull to prevent hogging of the keel. I'm not sure, just an educated guess. There's a fascinating article in a National Geographic Magazine about these massive riders being reinstalled in the Frigate USS Constitution 'Old Ironsides' once it was confirmed that these devices were originally installed at her construction. 

2

[druxey]

Similar diagonal braces against the side of the hull aft were called sleepers, not pointers.

[Jorge Diaz O]

5 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

 

Esto es lo que es un * jinete *. Simplemente refuerza el marco a lo largo de la quilla.

 

Robar

Hello, what book is this image from sir?

[ClipperFan]

9 hours ago, Jorge Diaz O said:

Hello, what book is this image from sir?

Jorge O Diaz

My best guess is William Crothers "The American Built Clipper Ship" which goes into extensive construction detail with associated images. Rob can correct me if I'm wrong. It's a great resource to have. You can find on line for $28 to $35.

[rwiederrich]

10 hours ago, Jorge Diaz O said:

Hello, what book is this image from sir?

 

Nautical terms under sail.   It is a composite dictionary and encyclopedia, a wonderful vault of detailed information and terms of most things nautical. 

 

Rob

Edited February 12, 2021 by rwiederrich

[rwiederrich]

15 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Jorge O Diaz

My best guess is William Crothers "The American Built Clipper Ship" which goes into extensive construction detail with associated images. Rob can correct me if I'm wrong. It's a great resource to have. You can find on line for $28 to $35.

 

Nautical terms under sail.  Crothers has similar imagery though.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

 

Nautical terms under sail.  Crothers has similar imagery though.

 

Rob

Rob,

Is this the book you refer to?

[ClipperFan]

12 hours ago, Jorge Diaz O said:

Hello, what book is this image from sir?

I lightened up both images so they can be seen better.

[rwiederrich]

2 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob,

Is this the book you refer to?

 

Yep.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

4 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

I lightened up both images so they can be seen better.

 

 

Pointers were applied to counter the effects of Hogging.....in many clippers they were replaced with iron lattice.

It is a notefull observation to recall that the Great Republic was of such a stout construction that she employed many long pointers as well as iron cross braced lattice.  Making her one of the most strongly built clippers ever constructed.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

Rob,

I agree about your description of "Great Republic." Duncan McLean's amazing 37 page  pamphlet "Description of the Largest Ship in the World the New Clipper 'Great Republic' of Boston" there are 6 large depictions of her in minute details. One shows her internal construction with a depiction of the iron latticework which literally forms a skeletal trusswork cage to reinforce her wooden structure.

Since "Great Republic" was constructed 15 years earlier than "Glory of the Seas" I wonder if it was less expensive to use wooden trusses instead to accomplish the same result or was it because Glory would be almost half the length of "Great Republic?"

 

[ClipperFan]

A few days ago I received a very encouraging email from Michael Mjelede. He mentions that he has about 4 to 5 detailed images of Glory at San Pedro 1907, in addition to 3 filing cabinet drawers full of "Glory of the Seas." Since he can't go on a normal vacation trip due to the pandemic, he's going to make use of his time instead to reorganize all his Glory files here's the rest of what he wrote to me verbatim: "if you have specific questions regarding her (Glory of the Seas) please supply me with a list so that I can zero in on those items.

I commend you and Rob for the thorough work you and others are accomplishing to come up with a more accurate plan of Glory.

Best Wishes, Mike"

[ClipperFan]

15 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

A few days ago I received a very encouraging email from Michael Mjelede. He mentions that he has about 4 to 5 detailed images of Glory at San Pedro 1907, in addition to 3 filing cabinet drawers full of "Glory of the Seas." Since he can't go on a normal vacation trip due to the pandemic, he's going to make use of his time instead to reorganize all his Glory files here's the rest of what he wrote to me verbatim: "if you have specific questions regarding her (Glory of the Seas) please supply me with a list so that I can zero in on those items.

I commend you and Rob for the thorough work you and others are accomplishing to come up with a more accurate plan of Glory.

Best Wishes, Mike"

A fact I overlooked in Mike's message was his timeframe. He specifically mentioned that he plans to take the last week of this month to do his "Glory" file review. That gives us just under 2 weeks to assemble our wish list of a man who has informed us he began his research on McKay's last Clipper since 1957, over six decades ago. My one suggestion is we can focus on the different modifications done to Glory's Deck and Masts, mainly in her early years. This would give modelers options to capture her likeness at varying times. The most noticable one I see is the innovative expansion of her Wheelhouse to fully protect the helmsman. A standard practice over many decades of service for all Sailing Ships was to lower Mast heights to reduce stress on aging Hulls, including converting them to Barks to utilize smaller crews. Glory's mast heights were reduced, though she never became a Bark while she was still in full service as a merchant sailing vessel. 

[rwiederrich]

Rich.    Sounds like good advice.  My model of her represents her as McKay originally built her, though I did make a few modification errors mixing time frame mods.    I’d like to have a model of her of when she first came into service and one after all her significant mods had been made.   I’ll definitely be in touch with Mike concerning data points. 

[ClipperFan]

So this neat little book arrived from Canada today. It's a first person account of Captain Daniel S McLaughlin's 42nd & final voyage from NY to San Francisco on the Clipper "Glory of the Seas" by Daniel C McLaughlin, his son accompanying him on his 1st voyage. Pretty neat. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by ClipperFan
Name correction

[ClipperFan]

2 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

So this neat little book arrived from Canada today. It's a first person account of Captain Daniel S Mclaughlin's 42nd & final voyage from NY to San Francisco on the Clipper "Glory of the Seas" by Daniel C McLaughlin, his son accompanying him on his 1st voyage. Pretty neat. 

The 2 images are the only ones in this small booklet. One reason I bought it was in hope of finding a rare picture of Glory. There's a beautiful albeit inaccurate model of her but that's it. I'm sure Mike's 2nd book has far more details than this thin little book but anyhow....

Edited February 17, 2021 by ClipperFan
Misspelled word

[rwiederrich]

10 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

The 2 images are the only ones in this small booklet. One reason I bought it was in hope of finding a rare picture of Glory. There's a beautiful albeit inaccurate model of her but that's it. I'm sure Mike's 2nd book has far more details than this thin little book but anyhow....

 

Looks like you are the one who bought that pamphlet our from under me.  the one I was looking at was from Canada and when I went to get it, it was just sold........to you I presume....Heehee

 

I'm still waiting to see the photographs Mike has of the Glory from a direct frontal view and the one from her on the ways taken from across the street from Mckay's yard.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

11 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

 

Looks like you are the one who bought that pamphlet our from under me.  the one I was looking at was from Canada and when I went to get it, it was just sold........to you I presume....Heehee

 

I'm still waiting to see the photographs Mike has of the Glory from a direct frontal view and the one from her on the ways taken from across the street from Mckay's yard.

 

Rob

Rob,

Yeah, it probably was me. I got it from Abe Books and it was just the one copy. It was published Jan 1994 by Grand Manan Museum. Apparently Captain Daniel McLaughlin retired to that Nova Scotian Island when he retired. I will keep an eye out for another. I got it because I remember I first took it out from the Bristol, CT library. It was my first time reading about "Glory of the Seas." I didn't discover Michael's books til years later.

[ClipperFan]

Rob, the 2 new images Mike sent me give us a better opportunity to nail down Glory's accurate angles and dimensions. The Bow detail particularly is much sharper than the one I enlarged from the book. It's now apparent that what we took as a near verticle drop just before she goes below the waterline is actually a shadow behind. Her true Bow is just slightly angled, as I always suspected from other images. If you can compare compass readings on this new detail photo, it would be a way to contrast to her launch photo. Speaking of which, I would also like to know the angle of inclination of the Bowsprit too. Based on contemporary published accounts of McKay's other Clippers, I've been using an 8 to 3 rise, 3 units up for 8 units out. It would be fascinating to see if that remained consistent in Glory. As an accurate measure we can use Glory's 90" Figurehead as a way to get fairly close to her other Bow dimensions. It won't be perfect due to having to estimate where her head resides, in the Bow detail since she's in shadow and in her scene on the Ways, we're viewing her from below. So that has to be taken into consideration too. By comparing the two readings though we should be able to get a very close approximation to work with. Tell me what you think.

[rwiederrich]

13 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Yeah, it probably was me. I got it from Abe Books and it was just the one copy.

 

Yep Abe Books.  I love finding these small pamphlets.  Many times they contain more personal information.  Information that can get left out of larger more general information publications.

When I was researching for my Great Republic build, I cam across this pamphlet written about single family builders of clipper ships.  Fascinating read.  many smaller yards jumped on the bandwagon to make fast clippers.  That was were the money was. 

[rwiederrich]

8 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, the 2 new images Mike sent me give us a better opportunity to nail down Glory's accurate angles and dimensions. The Bow detail particularly is much sharper than the one I enlarged from the book. It's now apparent that what we took as a near verticle drop just before she goes below the waterline is actually a shadow behind. Her true Bow is just slightly angled, as I always suspected from other images. If you can compare compass readings on this new detail photo, it would be a way to contrast to her launch photo. Speaking of which, I would also like to know the angle of inclination of the Bowsprit too. Based on contemporary published accounts of McKay's other Clippers, I've been using an 8 to 3 rise, 3 units up for 8 units out. It would be fascinating to see if that remained consistent in Glory. As an accurate measure we can use Glory's 90" Figurehead as a way to get fairly close to her other Bow dimensions. It won't be perfect due to having to estimate where her head resides, in the Bow detail since she's in shadow and in her scene on the Ways, we're viewing her from below. So that has to be taken into consideration too. By comparing the two readings though we should be able to get a very close approximation to work with. Tell me what you think.

 

Fantastic!  I need to see the new images first.  Mike didn't send them to me.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

8 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

 

Fantastic!  I need to see the new images first.  Mike didn't send them to me.

 

Rob

Hi Rob,

These are the only two images Mike has sent me so far. He's using the last week of this month to reorganize his files. Mike has 4 or 5 pics of Glory 1907 printed from original negative & roughly the same amount, some color of her lovely Figurehead. My apologies, I can't orient the close up to appear horizontal, I've tried. When I enlarge the other full image, it looks like it's a watercolor instead of a photo.

[ClipperFan]

Rob and anyone else who's interested, Michael Mjelde is spending next week organizing his 3 file drawers of research papers on "Glory of the Seas." Since he's began this in 1957, it's a fair guess that this is the most comprehensive collection of information on McKay's last Clipper available to us. I'm going to do my level best this weekend to develop my list of specific items I need to address in order to have sufficient specifications and requisite images to recreate "Glory of the Seas" in the ultimately accurate plans to the minutest detail possible in every aspect available. 

[ClipperFan]

On 2/20/2021 at 3:16 AM, ClipperFan said:

Rob and anyone else who's interested, Michael Mjelde is spending next week organizing his 3 file drawers of research papers on "Glory of the Seas." Since he's began this in 1957, it's a fair guess that this is the most comprehensive collection of information on McKay's last Clipper available to us. I'm going to do my level best this weekend to develop my list of specific items I need to address in order to have sufficient specifications and requisite images to recreate "Glory of the Seas" in the ultimately accurate plans to the minutest detail possible in every aspect available. 

Michael Mjelde reminded me in our latest emails that he's sending another package to his Naval architect Ron Haug in Australia by the end of this week. He gave me a resource to download the image of the fishing crew from Alaska 1917. We're trying to establish accurate height of Glory's Bulwarks. At first I thought they were 8'. From going back to check the published description in Mike's first book, I've discovered some of my previous assumptions were wrong. My apologies. The little bit of information there is refers to her Bulwarks being 6' above the Main deck. Then it describes a Rail above that but doesn't give a specific dimension to that. The Alaskan photo shows a very substantial wall. It looks to be more than 6'. Mike suggest we use Glory's 1869 Broadside fitting out photo to calculate the height. He also told me about another 1998 publication from Peabody Essex Museum "Capturing Poseidon" which he said has a high quality photo of Glory from 1869. I'm unsure if he meant the one of her on the Ways or her fitting out Broadside. Abe books has many fine copies available for very reasonable rates.

[ClipperFan]

In a recent email discussing how many skylights 2 vs 3 were on Glory's Rear House, Michael Mjelede cleared up some confusion for me on that topic. He stated that a picture of a large Sailing Ship, which has a similar Rear House surrounded by Turned Rails is incorrectly identified as "Glory of the Seas." He also informed that each of the paintings published in his two books were personally verified with descendants of Captains or Owners who commissioned them. He then shared a copy of this work of art: ca 1871 Charles J Waldron oil painting commissioned by Captain Elisha F Sears. He admits that her Bow is inaccurate as to proportion but otherwise in general appearance this is true to "Glory of the Seas" which the artist had to have seen himself.

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, ClipperFan said:

In a recent email discussing how many skylights 2 vs 3 were on Glory's Rear House, Michael Mjelede cleared up some confusion for me on that topic. He stated that a picture of a large Sailing Ship, which has a similar Rear House surrounded by Turned Rails is incorrectly identified as "Glory of the Seas." He also informed that each of the paintings published in his two books were personally verified with descendants of Captains or Owners who commissioned them. He then shared a copy of this work of art: ca 1871 Charles J Waldron oil painting commissioned by Captain Elisha F Sears. He admits that her Bow is inaccurate as to proportion but otherwise in general appearance this is true to "Glory of the Seas" which the artist had to have seen himself.

To support his position that there were only two, not three skylights on the deck of the Rear House, Mike directed me to this 1915 image of crew dancing on deck on page 235 of his first book. More evidence of only two skylights can be seen from this picture of Glory beached at Endymion. Look closely at both pictures, the skylights consist of two identical structures. Basically rectangles surmounted by trapezoidal structures.

[rwiederrich]

Richard.....

Great observations and clear imagery.

 

I went back to the enlarged image of San Pedro  and imposed my corrected drawing over it.  Now apart from accepted distortions...I think I got pretty close.

My drawing is set at the waterline...  You can see that the figurehead is slightly lower on the San Pedro image.  I also have determined that the curve of the stem is more of a paraboloid as I had originally imagined.  Making the curve slightly concaved from a true circle.   The bobstay plates are pretty close to were they would be...if you reference her pre launching image...compared to her copper line.

 

The location of her figurehead is pretty close to what I had imagined from other images.  I'm gather its true location is somewhere in the middle of the two imposed images.  The pink lines are drawn on the San Pedro image outlining her lines.

 

Any thoughts?

Edited February 24, 2021 by rwiederrich

[rwiederrich]

On 2/23/2021 at 4:55 AM, ClipperFan said:

Michael Mjelde reminded me in our latest emails that he's sending another package to his Naval architect Ron Haug in Australia by the end of this week. He gave me a resource to download the image of the fishing crew from Alaska 1917. We're trying to establish accurate height of Glory's Bulwarks. At first I thought they were 8'. From going back to check the published description in Mike's first book, I've discovered some of my previous assumptions were wrong. My apologies. The little bit of information there is refers to her Bulwarks being 6' above the Main deck. Then it describes a Rail above that but doesn't give a specific dimension to that. The Alaskan photo shows a very substantial wall. It looks to be more than 6'. Mike suggest we use Glory's 1869 Broadside fitting out photo to calculate the height. He also told me about another 1998 publication from Peabody Essex Museum "Capturing Poseidon" which he said has a high quality photo of Glory from 1869. I'm unsure if he meant the one of her on the Ways or her fitting out Broadside. Abe books has many fine copies available for very reasonable rates.

 

Thanks, I got a copy coming.....

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

3 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Richard.....

Great observations and clear imagery.

 

I went back to the enlarged image of San Pedro  and imposed my corrected drawing over it.  Now apart from accepted distortions...I think I got pretty close.

My drawing is set at the waterline...  You can see that the figurehead is slightly lower on the San Pedro image.  I also have determined that the curve of the stem is more of a paraboloid as I had originally imagined.  Making the curve slightly concaved from a true circle.   The bobstay plates are pretty close to were they would be...if you reference her pre launching image...compared to her copper line.

 

The location of her figurehead is pretty close to what I had imagined from other images.  I'm gather its true location is somewhere in the middle of the two imposed images.  The pink lines are drawn on the San Pedro image outlining her lines.

 

Any thoughts?

Hi Rob, trying to accurately nail down Glory's true form is clearly an exercise in patience, for sure. You're certainly getting closer. I sense our best approach is to carefully measure the distance of the Bow from her Figurehead in the 1907 San Pedro scene. Knowing her Figurehead is 90" we should be able to get very close to her actual dimensions. I suggest using a verticle line up from where her prow meets the water and measure horizontally out to where her Figurehead rests. For example, her Bowsprit length is published, we know she's sheathed with yellow metal up to 22' to her waterline. As we carefully piece together these related components, gradually a more accurate overall vessel will emerge. Meanwhile, our key resource Michael Mjelde has just sent me another great image. It's a close up starboard view of her Figurehead, Naval Hood and Cut Water in 1911, one of a series of articles he wrote in the 90s about the conversion of Glory to the fishing industry. Mike assures me that there are a few rare pics of Glory in these series of articles. To show how close my own efforts have come, I attached a pen & ink sketch done a few years ago of this identical scene. It was done without benefit of having seen the 1911 pic.