Mayflower by LCdr Dave - Billing Boats - 1:60

[LCdr Dave]

It seems the Vallejo paint had a reaction to the shellac. It isn’t hardening as well as it has cracked. I am in the process of stripping it - I am using rubbing alcohol which seems to work fairly well. I also have some gun wash I got from a friend that will take any stubborn spots out. Then I will hand paint it. I tested it on the rudder and the paint seems to be holding.

Thanks for looking.

Dave

[TOM G]

If you sand & re paint..... the hull will look like the bottom is a fiberglass hull.   Best way out is to mix up a black wash ( 2 tsp of india ink into 1 pt of 91% alcohol ) put the wash over all your bright colored paint'd area's using a brush...... you can re coat the wash after it drys if you prefer.   The result will be a weathered hull witch will give a more real look to who ever views it.......... When you get to your sails soak them in tea and they will match up with the rest of the vessel.🙂

[LCdr Dave]

Tom, thanks for that. As you will see, I launched ahead before I saw this. 
Dave

[LCdr Dave]

So I removed the cracking paint with some alcohol and gun wash (not mixed - one after the other) and painted the hill with a brush and my Mk I eyeball. I am happy. It isn’t perfect but will do. 

as I contemplate the rigging, I keep perusing the line diagrams to try to understand what is going on. Maybe one of you will know. I have 2 lines (that I know of) that have no where to tie off. If I knew there names I might be able to figure it out but, unlikely, and nor do I want to become a master rigger. 
in the diagram I highlighted line 24 which seems to go from a block that is tied off on two rings on the deck (25). The line goes up and through a block that is tied onto line 23 attached to the top mast. Now the line 24 comes back down towards the deck and (according to the second drawing) goes somewhere below deck. Am I missing something? There is certainly no way to tie off anything below, especially if there is a lifeboat sitting there. 

 

 

any help would be appreciated. 
Thanks for looking

Dave

[kirill4]

Good day,

It looks like this is topsail tie  23 and another lines near by, a little bit to the aft , it looks like running backstays / no poz.N.

There is a perfect book written by RC Anderson-  gives all ( almost all :)) unswers on galleon rigging questions... highly recommended...

Ps

This fall / runner( 24) couldn't be run bellow deck level, just secure it in suitable,convenient place in the waist area...

Most probably, these two rings 25 shown on your drwng at one place,phisicaly are fitted on both sides on deck and need to be used for securing standing parts of this 23  topsail tie , one ring located  on ps - used for securing standing part of the runner, and another ring placed on sbs,used  for securing standing part of the halliard ,running part of the halliard 25 could be secured on the railing near by of its standing part.

Edited April 30 by kirill4

[Baker]

I can't see the whole drawing.

But to me this is to raise the yard of your topsail.

is attached somewhere on the port or starboard side.

correct English name??

You can get more information, but then I have to start searching in my books first

[kirill4]

Good day Baker,

That was I told about, aprox 2 hrs ago - it is rigging of topsail : topsail tie and tie hallyard...

 

All the best!

Kirill

Edited April 30 by kirill4

[Baker]

48 minutes ago, kirill4 said:

Good day Baker,

That was I told about, aprox 2 hrs ago - it is rigging of topsail tie and tie hallyard...

 

All the best!

Kirill

Okidoki. 

An old men with a smartphone and google translate....

Mis understand 😉

[kirill4]

:))) we are thinking in the same direction - it is part of topsail running rigging...

[LCdr Dave]

Kirill, thanks for the info. I will see if I can get a copy at a reasonable cost and timeframe. I am struggling to figure out which eyebolts are on the sides and which are in the middle since they don’t show up on the plan view - only the cross section. 
🤯🤪

cheers, 

Dave

[kirill4]

 

Good day Dave,

 Reading this book You will have clear understanding of the mames and functioning of each of the righing lines which were in use on the vessel of late 16th and most of the17th centuries, but there are no  exact rigging plans or belaying points location chart in this book ...

 he gives just approx  rigging lines locations, he mentioned traditional places where it could be most logically placed based on his studies of historic sources and museum models...

 If this rigging plan in the kit not clear , or some points are not clear , You could use any other conventional  galleon's models rigging plan together with information from RC Anderson book ... there are a few of them which were made on high professional level ... and actually all of them are very similar to each other :),

 reading Anderson book and at the same time  studying carefully any of those plans You will see how they exactly follow Anderson's guides...

 At least You could use riging plans of Cor Emke / Ab Hoving, museum Vasa 's rigging plan, Mondfeld 's rigging plan of Golden Hind model, anatomy of Susan Constant or recently developed model of Golden Hind ( based on Aker's reconstruction)and its rigging plan by Eugen Troppmann...

Ps

As variant both of these ring bolts for securing standing parts of top sail tie halliard could be located on the port and sb sides infront of each other, one on each side...they could be fitted on deck near waterways or on vertical timbers of the railings ... or both of them on one side, but I prefer to see them located on both sides as described by Anderson...

All the best !

Kirill

 

 

 

6_b riggfästen mm.pdf 7_b rigg rekons.pdf Golden Hind-T4A3.pdf

Edited April 30 by kirill4

[LCdr Dave]

Kirill, that is a lot of info! Thank you!

Cheers,

Dave

[kirill4]

You are wellcome,

As You can see, there are about 17 pcs of rigging lines only ,necessary for operating of each square sail( main course at least)... they just are duplicated or "triplicated" on the drawing depends on how many sail has our model... just one time need to spend some time and study them( at least for one sail) and than You will have clear understanding what 's going on on the rigging plan for any of Your models in the future , but not like just a set of  unknown digits on the plan but as sertain name of each rigging lines.

All the best!

Kirill.

[LCdr Dave]

I got my copy of R.C. Anderson’s book today and read through it. It certainly cleared up some questions. 
Thanks Kirill. 
Cheers, 

Dave

[kirill4]

Good day Dave,

I'm glad that You have it, a few years ago when I was busy with making my own rigging plan and assembling my galleon model, it gave me great support, even now if some qiestions arised or I forgot something I know where to find answers :)))...

However if some questions remains unclear people here will help You to find right unswer.

All the best!

Kirill

 

[LCdr Dave]

Progress is being made albeit slow. Sprit has been gammoned (not sure if that is a verb). 

 

 

 

I managed to tie a loop and seize it to start the gammoning. I then realized that the holes in the grate and the stem didn’t line up well so I had to extend the holes. I also had to remove the chocks and replace them after the gammoning was done. Oh, the challenges of tying small knots!

I did have the help of my “third hand” to hold the rope taut while I seized it. 
I also made the “chain plates” for the shrouds. This model calls for brass wire to be bent around the deadeyes and through the channels and into the hull.  That’s a lot of bends, not all of which can be done before inserting through the channels. 
Once I bent them to fit around the deadeyes, I blackened them. For some reason some didn’t take despite all of them getting stripped with acetone and rinsed prior to blackening. Not worried, I can paint the ones that stayed brass-coloured after installing. 
I used a jig to wrap the wire by inserting three pins into a slab of wood to represent the corners of the deadeye. 
 

 

Thanks for looking. 
Cheers,

Dave

[Baker]

 

non-binding advice 😉

In my opinion the loop go's  around the bowsprit.

Normaly this is done with a chain. 

 

Otherwise, take a look at my Pelican build log.

in the first post you will find an index with links

 

Edited May 13 by Baker

[LCdr Dave]

Hey Patrick, I agree with the chains but that’s not what I got in the kit. Not having a hobby shop near by picking up small amounts of such thing as chain is difficult. Ordering small amounts on line is not feasible due to shipping costs. I am sure I am not alone in this. 
As far as the rope going around the sprit, since the knee is to the left it made sense to keep it on one side. I have also seen it be doubled up and seized to a block on the aft side of the foremast. 
thanks for checking in. 
Dave

[Baker]

No problem. 

If this helps. My Bounty experiment. 

[LCdr Dave]

Patrick, thanks for the links to your builds - very informative. If I may inquire, what metal wire did you use to make the chains for the Pelican deadeyes?

Your work is, by the way, awe-inspiring.

Cheers,

Dave

[kirill4]

Good day Dave,

Probably there is sence to shift lower collar of main stay to the aft a little, and to secure it as described in Anderson book?

Main stay lower collar and bowsprit gammoning norm. used to be positioned in different places , not in the same spot.

All the best !

Kirill

[Baker]

Ordinary iron wire of 1mm. soldered with a regular soldering iron.

I think I have the Model Shipways Mayflower building instructions somewhere. This is very helpful for rigging.
If you want this you will have to wait a while, I am not at home right now

[LCdr Dave]

Kirill, thank you. I should have looked at that first. I may have to pull it out and put in a longer piece of rope so I can double it up. 
cheers,

Dave

[LCdr Dave]

Patrick, I do have the model shipways instructions (I had forgotten I had them -doh). They are very helpful, but only if one reads them….

thanks for looking in,

Dave

[kirill4]

Good day Dave,

There are a few exell tables from different authors exists in the net for free download.

Tables for automatic calculation diameters of all rigging lines of your model, all You need to do just to feel in the cells a few basic parameters as scale, year of build, diam.of main mast , maybe a few more... and than You will have all sizes of your rigging, standing and running...

You could simplify a little calculated  results,  and join them to the group of similar sises of the ropes which You will really use on your model.

Knowing that You could manage threads of all necessary sizes for Your model.

The matter I mentioned these tables -I saw on the photo, that  probably You used too thick line for gammoning, and size of the gammoning and main stay collar looks the same?... which shouldn't be like that...

You could also calculate all basic sizes of your rigging by hand , knowing diam.of main mast in the base/ where it penetrates main deck... first You need to calculate diam. of main stay and than all other rigging lines sizes as proportional of main stay size.

There are good instructions and tables for such calculations in the Mondfeld book, but easyest way to use excell tables for automatic calculation... I think I saw such tables even in this MSW resource  in section about rigging...

I could advise before You start rigging of any lines on Your model first would be good to read relative sections in Anderson book ,which You have as I understood, as usual He gives all necessary details of the matter - purpose,functioning,location and often even sises of the ropes...

All the best!

Kirill

Ps 

There are a few scans from Mondfeld enciclopedia

 

 

Edited May 15 by kirill4

[kirill4]

I don't remember, did I mention the very nice book about building MF replica written by its designer - it is just briliantc work about this vessel, there areca lot of information about MF replica  bulding  ,english 16-17  shipbuilding traditions with reach historic background, there are a few more articles about other colonial vessel of MF period, good set of drawings and excellent appendics tables with reach data of MF rigging as well...

Ps

I ve purchased it a few years ago  - perfect book!

There are a few scans where He gives sises of MF replica rigging...knowing your model scale You could recalculete sizes for your needs.. pay attention, sometimes in the book mentioned outside length of a circle of the rope but not a diam. of the rope, which need to he calculated

Edited May 15 by kirill4

[LCdr Dave]

Kirill, that is a wealth of information, thank you. I like the idea of having a few sizes of rope. I went with rope size provided in the kit and then sourced a dark brown version of it. I should have realized that, like everything else in the kit, it would be inaccurate. 
Back to the drawing board, I guess. 
thanks for checking in,

Dave

[kirill4]

Good day Dave,

Your model is growing up very good!

I don't have wooden models building experience at all.

Rigging questions , for me , it is always like some kind of a pazzle in some extend, which is just allways interesting for discussion :)))... may be there are some points for improvements in the kit , or not , it all depends on of your intentions of couse, but the kit is quite good in common , as I could see,  watching those fragments of kits drawings which You posted above...

Wish You all the best! Watching your building reports with great interests!

[LCdr Dave]

The last several weeks I have been reading books on rigging. Got my hands on William Baker’s “The Mayflower”, RC Anderson’s “Rigging of Ships in the Days of the Spritsail Topmast”, Lennarth Petersson’s “Step-by-Step Guide to the Intricacies of Square-Rig”. 

Moving towards getting the rigging started I decided to remake the plastic tops out of wood. Here I have the trestle trees and cross trees made. Next will be a floor.

 

 

Thanks for looking,

Dave

[LCdr Dave]

I finished the Fore and Main tops. I realized after that the first one got a mix of bass and balsa wood - hopefully it won’t be noticeable once it is finished. 

The extra effort in replacing the plastic floor and trestle trees are worth it, I think. 

The rigging drawing shows a couple of blocks hanging from the bottom of the trestle tree with now part numbers. They seem to be part of the running rigging attached to the spars. I think using eyebolts to attach the blocks will be the way to go - there is no indication on the drawing. I don’t know what they are called so the Anderson book doesn’t help. Maybe another perusal of the Shipways instructions will help. 
 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for looking. 
Dave