Boats for Frigate Diana - Occre

[RossR]

I am about to start building the Frigate Diana from Occre.  The boats that were supplied are metal die cast boats.  My first model was the HMS Beagle from Occre that had 4 small boats that were built as a plank on frame construction.  I am considering trying to scratch build the boats using a "layer cake" method like Model Shipways Constituion's boats.  Curious if anyone has tried this or has any advice.  

Edited November 17, 2022 by RossR
clarification and adding tags

[Roger Pellett]

Depending on your objectives there are several different choices for building small boats.  I know a builder who carves the outside and hollows the inside to form an amazing thin shell.  His boats are models in and of themselves.  I have read about laying up layers of old fashioned gummed paper over a form and have seen beautiful POF examples.

 

If you are happy with the outside shape of the kit boats and are willing to use plastic you could easily vacuum form the boats using the kit boats as a form.  This is an easy way to produce a thin walled shell for a hull.  A shop vacuum provides plenty of vacuum, a cheap hot plate or oven provides heat and a few other things that you will need can be knocked up from scrap materials.  If this interests you, using the forum search function you can find a tutorial on vacuum forming that I wrote some time ago.

 

Roger

[allanyed]

Hi Ross!

What scale?   Plank on frame might be a bit difficult at 1:85 if that is the appropriate scale, but certainly can be done.  As the boats were stowed right side up do you want the interiors to look realistic, including having all the pieces to scale?   I have had the most success using a method similar to what Frolich describes in his book Art of Ship Modeling.  It is also described in detail in volume II of HMS Euryalus.  You can also try a method similar to that used by several kit makers including the Medway long boat by Syren.   A 38 gun frigate of 1794 would  probably have had five or six boats including a 24 foot launch, a 30 foot pinnace, a 24 foot cutter and 18 foot cutter plus two smaller boats based in information from May's The Boats of Men of War..  It sometimes varied from ship to ship based on the preference of the captain.  For a model, most folks would only include 2 to 4 boats.   You can find great information, including scantlings for each boat in the W.E. May book.  Below are a 1:48 scale cutter, pinnace, and launch built using the methods detailed in the Euryalus book.

Allan

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by allanyed

[RossR]

Thanks for the information. Appreciate your help and those boats look incredible

[allanyed]

Thank you for the compliment!

[native one]

If you're really want to try to detail your boats,here's the plans for the longboat and barge that the Mahonesa's carried aboard,1/85th scale is kinda small to add to much detail but I hope these will give you a general idea of their appearance. 

[allanyed]

Those are nice drawings Native One!

 The only problem is that Diana would not have carried a longboat nor a barge.  Longboats were replaced with launches well before 1794.  A 38 gun frigate of 1794 would  probably have had five or six boats including a launch, a pinnace, two cutters plus two smaller boats based in information from May's The Boats of Men of War.    MOST details can be shown although the frames would be more easily done if simplified.   

 

Contemporary plans for hundreds of different boats can be found at RMG Colletions as well as on the Wiki Commons site and detailed scantlings based on Steel, circa 1800 can be found on line in May's book, used copies of which can be found for under $10.

https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?isbn=9781861761149&n=100121503&cm_sp=mbc-_-ISBN-_-used   

 

One example of a 25 foot cutter can be found at

https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-86819

Allan

[native one]

Those are from the actual plans of the Mahonesa's monograph from Ancre.

[native one]

[allanyed]

4 hours ago, native one said:

Those are from the actual plans of the Mahonesa's monograph from Ancre.

Hi Native one,

Mahonesa was a Spanish thirty-four class if I am not mistaken.  I have no idea what kind of boats Honorat de Bouyon used on the ships built at Mahon including this class,  but will assume that Ancre has it right for a Spanish ship model.  Ancre states they carried two boats which seems light.  HMS Diana carried at least four, probably five or six.   For RN boats two great sources based on contemporary information are Lavery's The Arming and Fitting of English Ships of War and the spread sheet of boat types and sizes for various rates and years in The Boats of Men of War.  Hopefully there are similar sources of contemporary information for Spanish ships.

Allan

Edited January 30, 2023 by allanyed

[native one]

Oh wrong ship,wrong country ,I thought  we were  talking about the spanish frigate Diana built in mahon's. 

[allanyed]

Hi Native One,

You may be absolutely correct the OcCre Diana is one of the Spanish Mahonesa frigates.  I have no contemporary based info on Spanish ship's boats so have no idea what they actually carried, but two boats seems to be too few.   As OcCre is a Spanish company, it would make sense that they offer the Spanish Diana rather than the English or Danish Dianas

Allan

 

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by allanyed

[RossR]

The Occre model is the Spanish frigate Diana.  It appears to have been a very popular name.