Senora Fielden 1450 by Ferrus Manus - 1/24 - POB - A realistic interpretation of the Mataro Model

[botra288]

I admire the in-depth research and the courage to take on such a fascinating project, well done!!! I will continue to follow and learn with curiosity

[Roger Pellett]

The idea of building a ship from a set of drawings prepared by a Naval Architect sitting in a design office is a relatively new idea.  Although ships were built from drawings in the 1600’s, smaller vessels were often built in primitive ship yards by skilled artisans using formulae handed down by previous generations.

 

For many vessels and particularly those built in the 1400’s design, therefore, cannot be divorced from the building process.  You might say that these ships were designed as they were built.  That is a major reason why Woodrat is using length of keel as a major design parameter.  An owner would ask a Shipwright to build a vessel to stow a specified cubic volume of cargo; often large barrels called Tuns.  The overall length of the vessel would be the sum of three major timbers; keel, stem post, and stern post.  The easiest of these to measure was the keel, so this was the builder’s starting point.  Many other dimensions would follow as ratios of keel length.  If you asked out Fifteenth Century builder to build a ship of specified Length Between Perpendiculars, I don’t think that he would know what you were talking about or how to do it.

 

Roger

 

 

[Ferrus Manus]

@woodrat @Louie da fly Let's settle this argument once and for all. Yes, you already know what i'm talking about.

For those unaware, there is a debate between Dick and Steven concerning the bowsprit grapnels common on carracks of around this time. Steven believes they only existed on warships, to serve the purpose of dropping on top of another ship to hold her in place for boarding, while Dick believes they existed as sort of an auxiliary anchor. 

 

Now, gather round and listen to my ramblings...

 

These two naves are clearly warships, as they possess both anti-boarding nets and gads on the fighting tops (gads are large javelins meant to be thrown onto enemy sailors). They also both have the characteristic grapnel hanging from the bowsprit. Now, i tend to fall on the side of Steven in this debate. However, the true answer is likely more nuanced than that. In the medieval period, all the way up until the Renaissance, most if not all painters of nautical scenes did not care much about perfect realism in their artworks. Instead, they wanted to portray the idea of "ship", and they certainly did not imagine that almost six hundred years later, historians would use their artworks to piece together the functional details of an entire type of vessel that no longer exists. 

 

That being said, when a young artist in the medieval period first saw a carrack, the awe-inspiring image would certainly be burned into his memory. Were that a military vessel, it would have had a grapnel. This, to the young artist, would have been one of the most striking features of such a vessel, and, not being a sailor himself, would not have known the difference. Then, throughout his career, when asked to paint a carrack, he would likely call upon this memory like it was yesterday, and he certainly would not forget the spiky metal bit hanging off the bowsprit. 

Edited June 4, 2023 by Ferrus Manus

[Roger Pellett]

From what I have read, well into the 1500’s while States owned a few dedicated “King’s Ships” most large vessels served interchangeably as cargo carriers and warships.  In time of war it was it was common practice for the King to add to his fleet by chartering or more accurately conscripting vessels within his reach. Furthermore, this lack of dedicated navies made the seas dangerous places during what passed for peacetime. Otherwise peaceful cargo vessels were also not above resorting to some privateering when the opportunity presented itself.

 

It would, therefore, not be surprising to see warlike implements carried aboard otherwise peaceful cargo carriers.  I think that the grapnels were used for boarding other ships.

 

Roger 

[Louie da fly]

On 6/5/2023 at 4:32 AM, Ferrus Manus said:

Let's settle this argument once and for all. 

Hardly an argument, simply a difference in interpretation.

 

Your idea has merit, but without a time machine there'll never be a definitive answer.

 

Steven

[Ferrus Manus]

2 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

Hardly an argument, simply a difference in interpretation.

 

Your idea has merit, but without a time machine there'll never be a definitive answer.

 

Steven

I commented on your Great Harry. 😂

[Ferrus Manus]

Take heart and fear not: The Senora Fielden lives! This is not a dead build log- She was just asleep. 

 

When the Nef build is over, i shall begin the full-scale drawings, as well as some design revisions. 

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Ferrus Manus

[Ferrus Manus]

A second scale drawing of the ship's stem, stern, and keel, but with more clarified relationships and a theoretical sketch of the ship's lines.

Edit: I erroneously labelled the wing transom as "f.p." (fashion piece)

[Ferrus Manus]

I might increase the sheer on the forecastle. 

[Ferrus Manus]

The second construction of the ship's lines, this time factoring in the height of a man: 

[Ferrus Manus]

I have now come up with a set of measurements for the ship. 

 

Length stern post x stem post x keel: 36 inches

Width master frame: 14.4 inches (l/b of 3)

Width tail frame: 10.5 inches

 

[Doreltomin]

Hello, am wondering if you are still struggling to get the correct ratios for the Mataro ship? This was just a votive model with little interest to look like a real ship of that times, being meant to be hung up in the altar of a church, but judging upon its details it was built by someone with real knowledge on shipbuilding, therefore it was "selectively compressed" regarding its length. Some time ago while doing a little fumbling on the subject stumbled upon a paper which discussed the correct proportions the real ship should have had for navigation. I don't remember details but I can look after if you are interested.

[Ferrus Manus]

I have seen that picture, thank you. I think this is just something i will have to figure out, which i am most of the way done with. I have also looked at every Amati Coca build log on the forum, and only one contains the image. Woodrat has been instrumental to me getting anything right. Stick around!