Soleil Royal by EricWiberg - Heller - 1/100 - started 45 years ago

[Hubac's Historian]

This all looks great Eric.  I like your aft increase in wale sheer.  I’m debating whether it makes sense to have a corresponding increase in the middle band of wales, as the sheer would have run parallel.  The upper main wales - at the juncture of the upper bulwarks are pretty fixed, although one could add to to top edge of the upper most wale and feather it back.  It mY not really be worth all of that extra effort, though.

[EricWiberg]

Arggg, Marc... I continue to debate about changing the middle wale sheer! I finally was able to settle on a pleasing curve (to my eye) for the bottom wales. Note the ruler below.. the gap between middle and bottom wales is a very consistent 15mm. The longest bottom wale that I carved is 130mm in length, and it gradually curves upward to 3mm closer to the middle wales at the very aft of the ship - but I cut away those ends as they were hidden by the QG! (so the gap decreased from 15mm to 12mm over 130mm in length).

 

 

I told myself that moving the middle wales was just too much, so I went ahead and got the QG gun ports and decorations ready (the decorations are not glued on and need some finishing)... and told myself "no one will notice or care"... but I do!

 

 

The QG hides the bulk of the wales anyway, BUT... the picture below shows the visual effect of raising the middle wale by 1mm where it intersects the QG... it is a scrap piece so it doesn't have a pleasing curve. What I am leaning towards is to make "new" middle wales that are actually short in length and stop when they hit the leading edge of the QG... and raise them by 1mm where they hit the QG. Having that upward curve in the middle wales I am hoping would fool the eye that the upward sweep continues through the QG and they would seem to parallel the bottom wales.... but I wouldn't have to rework the middle wales that are mostly hidden in the QG. The QG will hide that transition. And then I am not sure that I would do anything with the upper wales. There - I think I have convinced myself to go that route and it won't require major surgery!

 

[Hubac's Historian]

That all sounds reasonable to me, Eric.

[EricWiberg]

Well... that went pretty well.... need to do a little bit of trimming and use some Tamiya putty, but the middle wales sweep up 2mm more now where they meet the QG leading edge.

 

It took 45 minutes to grind and scrape away the middle wales aft of the nearest scarf joints.

 

 

 

Then it was a simple matter to attach the new middle wales and sweep them up a bit. I will NOT do a darn thing with the upper wales. The QG hides most of where the "missing" upward sweep would be, and I am thinking the height of the bulwarks above them will also camouflage the "missing" 3mm of upward sweep the the lower and middle wales now have at the very aft end of the ship... and that the upper wales will not have.

 

[Hubac's Historian]

This looks awesome, Eric!

[Hubac's Historian]

Hi Eric - as I’m now finally ready to start assembling my chains, I was looking back on your rivet supplier.  The website still seems active.  Can you confirm the SKU number that you ordered - was it SKU: GLP154?

 

I see your customer review attached to this product number.  Whatever diameter rivet head you ordered is EXACTLY what I need.

[EricWiberg]

Marc, regarding the rivet heads... GLP154 is 0.042" round head diameter... GLP153 is 0.032" round head diameter. 

[EricWiberg]

OK, I have taken a slight change of course in the last few weeks. I am committed to building an SR 1671 version, and I was frustrated that I couldn't achieve more upward sweep with the wales, especially at the stern. I have been communicating with GuyM, and he has been extremely helpful in suggesting what SR 1671likely looked like. His premise is that the Royal Duc and SR 1671 are likely very similar in appearance, as they were built in the same port by the same master carpenter less than a year apart.

 

So I went all in. To achieve what I wanted to do, all of the wales had to be ground off and scraped away, and the plank lines scribed as needed.

 

Next, add new wales, trying to mimic the Royal Duc lines. The standard wales molded into the Heller model are all 4mm wide, 4mm apart, and 1mm thick (in 1/100 scale, 4mm translates to 15.7"). GuyM has suggested that it seems the bottom wales were likely thicker and wider than the middle wales, the middles wales less so than the top wales, etc. So trying to emulate the placement of the Royal Duc wales as best I could on the Heller hull, the bottom wales are now 4.2 mm wide x 1.5mm thick. The middle wales are 4.0mm wide x 1.0mm thick, and the top wales will be 3.2mm wide x 0.75mm thick.

 

The bottom and middle wales are held in place by small drops of glue so I can make some final tweaks. I actually cut the wales from Evergreen strip using the appropriate scarf joints and added them one by one in individual wale planks about 150mm long. The top wales won't need nice scarf joints as they will be covered with the "liston d'or" mouldings per GuyM. I am fabricating the top moldings now but won't add them yet as they will sweep up across the rear bulwark. Again, I tried to mimic the Royal Duc lines as exactly as I could... where the wales really curve up at the stern, I tried to match the curve of the top three moldings on the Heller rear bulwark. So this is what I have,

 

Soo.. as GuyM has observed, I have "opened a can of worms"! Yup, that means I will have to kit bash the rear bulwarks, and reshape the mouldings and the rail lines to duplicate the more severe sweep seen in this Royal Duc drawing. Heck, probably even means some shaping of the QG's. Heck, we haven't even gotten into making the top gun ports square without a curved arch and also having a gun port lid!

 

So I opened a can of worms... but I think by implenting these changes, I will get closer to what an SR 1671 likely appeared as.

[Hubac's Historian]

You have certainly set forth a challenge for yourself Eric.  There are a lot of worms in that can, but you can achieve a nice result with sufficient planning and forethought.  The most difficult aspect of this will be modifying the aft bulwark to achieve the continuity you are after.

[Ian_Grant]

Wow Eric, you are really going to the wall on this model!  I'm taking notes for when (if?) I get around to mine.

[EricWiberg]

Time will tell, Ian! I have a question... the photo below is of the rear bulwark. I superimposed red lines on the various mouldings, and these lines are all identical to the sweep of the wales. So. I am thinking that my rails and mouldings need to follow this curve, and I can see a clear path forward on that What I am NOT sure is... does the pitch of the poop deck/quater deck have to change as well. I am thinking they do not have to change, which makes the job much easier. But I want to do what is accurate.

[Ian_Grant]

Oh Eric, I have no idea what is accurate. Best see what Marc thinks. 🙂

[Hubac's Historian]

The wale sheer and deck sheer are not directly linked, but neither are they wholly independent of each other.

 

For practical purposes of safely and effectively operating the guns, the deck sheer necessarily remains relatively flat.  There is always a need to shed excess water through scuppers at the waist, so deck sheer is not perfectly flat.

 

The wale sheer necessarily rises aft, with the superstructure of the stern, as a means of counteracting the downward strain on the ship’s hull of all that excess structure.  The pair of lower main wales generally follows the line of greatest breadth, which coincides with the doubling of the first and second futtocks - through which the wales are bolted, lending great horizontal support to the framing.  You can see this on Marc Yeu’s model as he drew in the framing to guide his tree-nailing:

Likewise, the middle band of wales corresponds with the doubling of the second futtocks with the top timbers.  Now, Marc’s model represents the refit SR of 1689, so the wale sheer and overall top-hamper of the ship would have been reduced from the ship’s original extremes.  For reference, the Monarque of 1668:

Here is a reliable drawing of the Dauphin Royal that shows this extreme sheer pretty clearly:

 

In the bow and waist, the wale sheer more closely follows the deck sheer, however in the 1670s the aft wale sheer rises so sharply that the wales are frequently cut through completely by the aft-most ports, which kind of negates the upward-intended support of these re-enforcing members.

 

For additional reference, here is a broadside view of La Reyne from 1672:

Edited May 7 by Hubac's Historian

[Hubac's Historian]

Coincidentally, this just popped up in one of a series of videos on Kroum Batchvarov’s YouTube channel:

This would be a mid-17th C. Dutch Pinas, or merchant ship.  Generally, the framing of even Dutch warships was significantly lighter than the French, but all the more-so on a merchant ship.

 

You can see well, though, how the lower main wales follow the doubling of first and second futtocks, as well as the extreme rise in the sheer.  French warship design was heavily influenced by the Dutch, and in fact - many of the early First Marine ships were contractually built in Dutch yards for the French, so it is a useful reference.

 

Here is the full video:

 

, 

Edited May 7 by Hubac's Historian

[Ian_Grant]

Interesting that the Dauphin Royal has her main wale completely underwater amidships. Final nail in the coffin of Heller's way-too-low etched waterline on SR.

[Hubac's Historian]

Stern view for the DR:

I don’t know whether the scale ruler is legible in this format, but the port sills are drawn just about five scale feet above the waterline, which is about right.

 

No doubt, though, Heller’s underwater hull is way too shallow, and one really should raise the waterline.

[Ian_Grant]

Marc, in your #103 DR's wale is under water; in this stern view it's well above. Colour me confused.......🤔

Edited May 24 by Ian_Grant

[EricWiberg]

Spring has taken over the last several weeks... planting, gardening, cleaning, staining, etc. Finally managed to (almost) finish the new wales. I studied the few Royal Duc drawings available (the premise being that it was a very slighter smaller sister ship that was launched before SR) and studied the sweep of the wales. And this is what I came up with after sanding off the old wales... the molded wales on the Heller model are all 4mm wide and mostly 1mm thick. The drawings (and Guy!) suggested that the bottom wales were wider/thicker than the middle wales, and they were wider/thicker than the top wales... and the spacings between the wales was different. The bottom wales are 4.2mm wide/1.5mm thick, the middle wales 4mm wide/1mm thick, and the top wales 3.2mm wide/0.75mm thick. It may seem sometimes that the spacing between the wales varies, but actully I maintained exact spacings alomg the length of the ship; I think the various curves and bends in the hull create a bit of an optical illusion. Oh - and the top two wales on the rear bulwark are paper! I can't attach the top wales on the bulwark until later in the process. You may notice that I removed the top sheer step on the rear bulwark and also sanded/scraped off all detail so that I can create my own.

 

I spaced the scarf joints about every 150 mm per the butt joints on the Heller model (except where they might land on a gun port opening). I found it easiest to make the individual wale planks, and then glued them together in one long strip. A long strip made it much easier to get the curves that I needed; a drop of glue was applied and I just went gun port by gun port to make sure the spacings were correct.

 

 

Now I can proceed to finish the anchor linings and the boat fenders. Also, I knew it was almost a certainty when I started down this path, but I am resolved to working on the quarter galleries so they follow the new sheer curves as the drawings show. I forgot where I got the circular gun port picture, but I found some brass rings that fit perfectly over the circular gun ports. And I will "bolt" the wales onto the hull using a pattern from the St. Phillpe monograph. The bottom wales will be bolted by the 0.03" diameter plastic rivet on the right, while the brass nail in the middle has a diameter of 0.02" and will bolt the middle wales. The top wales will be unbolted as they will be covered with "ses listons d'or" per Guy.

 

 

Finally, I actually found a use for my laser leveler! I bet a French carpenter would have paid a years salary for it... I used it to make sure the gun ports that I cut in were plumb as oppsoed to following the curve of the deck as some people have mentioned (Hubac's Historian, for example). I am also using it to mark on the wales where the "timber heads" that arise vertically to support the bulwark rails; I assume they are the top, visible pieces of the futtocks (vocabulary ?) and the vertical laser line will show me where to add my bolts to the wales, ala the St. Phillipe monograph (I hope that makes sense!). 

Edited May 24 by EricWiberg
spelling

[Hubac's Historian]

On 5/7/2024 at 10:19 PM, Ian_Grant said:

Mar, in your #103 DR's wale is under water; in this stern view it's well above. Colour me confused.......🤔

Hi Ian - I think the lower wale is also above water in post #103, but it is an abbreviated quarter view.

[Ian_Grant]

2 hours ago, Hubac's Historian said:

Hi Ian - I think the lower wale is also above water in post #103, but it is an abbreviated quarter view.

Thanks Marc; looking back I see it is the Monarche whose wale is underwater amidships, not the DR.

[EricWiberg]

OK... I am finally done with the wale placement, anchor linings, etc. I am pleased with the sheer at the stern, as I tried to mimic Royal Duc as closely as I could.

 

The starboard steps are positioned (the kit steps had to be ground off with the wales), and the starboard fenders are ready and fitted, but I am going to tackle the bolting of the wales first. I have extended the fenders so the extra length will go up the bulwarks, and I will likely make a clean cut where the bulwarks meet the hull for later reinstall on the bulwarks.

 

 

My biggest takeway from the far more experienced artists here is "scale".. I am really trying to adhere to scale. For the wale scarf joints, I am using my plastic rivets, but I downsized to the 0.032" diameter round heads, as opposed to the 0.042" diameter I used before. I am using 0.020" round head brass nails for the bolting of the wales...

 

I simply make paper templates that I affix to the wales and drill the holes for the brass nails, and a tiny bit of super glue holds them firmly... the timber heads at the bulwarks are spaced 9mm apart, so I spaced the bolt heads on the paper template 9mm apart after also looking at the L'Ambiteaux monograph for hints.

 

 

 Finally, I hope I have a solution for my gun carriage tackle bolts. I found some 0.015" steel wire to duplic ate the iron rod that pokes out from the hull (at this scale, I will not attempt to imitate the wedge that hold the rod end in place!). As for the washer, this photo is a pitiful attempot at drilling out a 0.040" styrene rod and cutting a disc from it for a washer. I could never bore a hole in the exact center and got very frustrated. But, I found online, som e capillary tubes made from a hard plastic material called PEEK. These medical tubes are 0.040" OD and have a 0.015" ID hole, so they appear to be a perfect fit for me. The material slices easily and makes realistic looking washers (alas, I could never find a pre-made washer that small in plastic or metal, so I will have to slice 400+ of my own. This looks like it will work, but I need to finish the wales first!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 7 by EricWiberg

[Hubac's Historian]

You made a splendid job of fairing the sheer of those wales, Eric!  Time well spent.

[popeye2sea]

3 hours ago, EricWiberg said:

 

 

 

 

 

I'm really liking your work on the wales.  At the risk of being overly critical, the upper scarf joint in this photo has a really odd placement, don't you think?  It's really not serving any purpose.

 

Regards,

Henry

[EricWiberg]

Henry, you aren't being critical! The butt joint splicing on the model by Heller is 150mm.. I tried to maintain that but also knew I would be in No-Mans Land on that splice... with the way the wale curbed up, I was going to have an issue somewhere up.there!

[Hubac's Historian]

I might simply putty-over the scarf in that location.

[EricWiberg]

Henry/Marc.. that would be super easy to "remove" it!

[EricWiberg]

The bolting of the wales continues on the starboard side... use laser leveler to verify alignment of paper templates, Elmers glue a short template on the wale, drill holes, pull off paper and put in brass nails.

 

But the through bolts on the scarf joints were making me wake up at night. I really wanted to duplicate the appearance of a square head with a round dome on those bolts (forgot where I saw that as a French standard process), but I couldn't drill a centered hole in the 0.039" (1mm) square styrene. Then I looked back through Hubac's Historian and remembered what Marc did to put his bolts on.

 

I cut off and saved the 0.032" round plastic rivet bolt heads that I had pushed into a drilled hole. I then grabbed my Chopper and cut some squares of 0.010" (0.25mm) sheet styrene, affixed them to the hull with a drop of glue. I then dropped a tiny bit of g;ue on the square with a toothpick and dropped a round bolt head on. I then gave it a tap with the butt end of my X-acto knife and made any adjustments to center the bolt head. I was surprised at how easy it went, especially after I got through the first 30 or so attempts. I am not going to wake up tonight thinking about through bolts on scarf joints.

 

Oh -  you can also observe the holes I predrilled for the gun carriage tackle bolts (after making a jig for both the lower deck and the middle deck gun ports)... they are 0.016" so my 0.015" metal rods will fit into them.

 

I know that there is the thinking, probably right, that those details won;t matter at 1/100 scale as the human eye really can't perceive them.. but a camera can and I know that they are there.

 

[Hubac's Historian]

These details show up quite well, at this scale, and I have personally never regretted the extra effort.  Taken in the aggregate, with all of the other small details, they really enhance the overall impression of the thing.  I’m glad you were able to see that that particular method of making the bolt-heads really is not quite so tedious as it may seem.  The scarfs look great!

Edited June 10 by Hubac's Historian

[EricWiberg]

I can't go any further on the starboard side at this point (explanation further below) as I try to create an SR 1671... wales are bolted, scarf joints are bolted, all holes drilled. I am happy with the appearance of the brass nails that I found online, and the scarf joint bolt technique from Marc. Before I go on any further, I wouldn't be at this point without the immense advice/experience that I have received from Marc (Soleil Royal by Hubac's Historian - Heller - An Extensive Modification and Partial Scratch-Build on MSW) and GuyM (Soleil Royal 1671 modified Heller kit on SoS)... I can't thank these two gentleman enough!

 

 

 

Now for the next phase... note that every strake and decoration have been scraped and sanded away from the bulwarks. All detail/modications on the bulwarks must be finished before I can mount the bulwarks (as GuyM has done) in order to complete the top wales as they will now sheer up onto the bulwarks..

 

The look that I am trying to duplicate is the VDV sketch of the Royal Duc... so there are four key areas that I must address on the Heller kit.

 

Red Circle... the third tier of guns all have square gun ports (no arch at the top as with the Heller model). In addition, a number of the gun ports on this tier will have lids. I haven't decided how many as one sketch shows the aftmost five ports have lids, but another sketch shows every gun port on this tier with a lid. Also, I will be able to correct the gun ports so they are all vertically plumb/square

 

Yellow Circle... the addition of 4 windows ( I assume they would never be used as gun ports). Also, with the above-mentioned gun ports and the windows, they do appear to be wrapped with decorative moldings. I am not sure if they are supposed to represent acanthus (i.e. fancy), or are just some simple wooden carvings.

 

Blue Circle... five quarterdeck gun ports appear to be square, not circular as in the Heller mold, and the aftmost two ports have lids (!) This is also visible in another Royal Duc sketch. The  SR had two poop deck guns that will have circular gun ports.

 

Orange Rectangle... the top railing in several of these sketches seems not be a railing on top of posts, but I assume almost a solid wall of what appears to be... circles. I assume the circles are open... one sketch shows a slightly better detail where large circles and small circles are carved together in a repeating pattern. Now, this is not a deal breaker, but if Royal Duc had this decoration, I assume Hubac did the same on Soleil Royal launched less than one year later.

 

Also, I will scribe plank lines on the exterior, but may use Evergreen planks (4mm x 0.25mm) on the interior.

 

 

The final part is the "listons d'or", as GuyM notes. The photo below is a quick attempt using 14 gauge copper wire that I had from home electrical work. I have ordered some finer 16 gauge copper wire, which will allow a tighter wrap that will look more "rope like", as Marc and GuyM have stressed. After making the wrap, I will have a belt sander grind the back of the copper rope away so that it can be laid on the top wales and appear to have been carved directly into the top wales. There will also be another "listons d'or" above that on the bulwarks. Whew! That is likely it for a while, as I have some bulwark work to get to!

 

Edited June 23 by EricWiberg
spelling

[Hubac's Historian]

So, the best explanation I can offer as to why only some  of the main and quarter deck ports have lids is that, during this early time period, the French used ports on guns that were fully housed by a deck above.  So, the main deck guns beneath the f’ocsle and quarter decks would have lids.  The guns in the waist were fully open to the elements, and watershed would happen through the scuppers.  Likewise, the aft two QD guns are housed beneath the poop deck.

 

What you are seeing along the top sheer rails is not a solid wooden frieze carving, but instead a series of “fighting cloths.”  The poop, QD and f’ocsle rails, in preparation for battle, were blanketed in these cloths which helped give at least some cover to the seamen on deck, from the fusillade fire of opposing marines.  On this Monamy painting of SR, you can see these cloths in royal blue.  They are adorned with painted-on Fleur de Lis:

Beneath these cloths are the conventional timber head railings you typically see.  I have considered modeling these cloths on one side of my model, but I’m not sure I could do so convincingly well.

 

Those four openings above the lowest tier of the quarter gallery would be the windows one typically finds in the upper tiers of the quarter gallery.  In the absence of an elaborately architectural amortisement, it appears that La Reyne simply had these windows, framed in ornamental ginger-bread, set amidst a frieze of fleurs that decorated all of the upper bulwarks, above the main deck guns.