Staghound 1850 by rwiederrich - 1/96 - Extreme Clipper

[rwiederrich]

Adding some base trim.  
 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

Adding some base trim.  
 

Rob

Rob,

Nice foundational work. As a reminder of the difference between my earlier inaccurate arched windows, I'm sharing the latest fore and aft revisions, more accurately based on Michael Mjelde's sketch. As we discussed, the 2 foot overhang is too extreme and should just be 1 foot. Faux pillars (since they're only 1/2 projections) support arches over each element, window or panel  below, which are slightly inset and match profiles above. New subdued arches are almost flat in comparison. Overlapping arches may not be as clear in my sketch, so I've included Michael Mjelde's Glory of the Seas rear coach house front fascia for clarity and better comparison.

Edited August 13 by ClipperFan
additional information

[rwiederrich]

I've decided to keep two windows on the front...because I want them to mimic the aft windows...  Meaning the 2 in front make way for the mizzen, as the 2 aft make way for the steps.  Balance.

Since Glory of the Seas was McKay's final clipper.....  We can't assume he had finalized his Decore for his houses when he built his first clipper, Staghound.  My effort will be to copy the forward windows as you have depicted them...by way of example from Glory's and Mikes rendition.  That seams fitting as the portico main face. However, due to the extremely small size I am dealing with...I might settle on square windows for the rest.  The curved top is harder to make then you would imagine.    I'm experimenting...but have not been satisfied thus far.    We'll see.  but I think I may be settling on square.  Kinda like a skylight.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

42 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

I've decided to keep two windows on the front...because I want them to mimic the aft windows...  Meaning the 2 in front make way for the mizzen, as the 2 aft make way for the steps.  Balance.

Since Glory of the Seas was McKay's final clipper.....  We can't assume he had finalized his Decore for his houses when he built his first clipper, Staghound.  My effort will be to copy the forward windows as you have depicted them...by way of example from Glory's and Mikes rendition.  That seams fitting as the portico main face. However, due to the extremely small size I am dealing with...I might settle on square windows for the rest.  The curved top is harder to make then you would imagine.    I'm experimenting...but have not been satisfied thus far.    We'll see.  but I think I may be settling on square.  Kinda like a skylight.

 

Rob

Rob,

Since you're working on such a tiny size, that makes sense. For the sides, you might want to do just one larger window too. If you take a close look at the revised arch, it's almost flat as well.

[Rick310]

Beautiful drawings and portico!!

Rick

[rwiederrich]

2 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob,

Since you're working on such a tiny size, that makes sense. For the sides, you might want to do just one larger window too. If you take a close look at the revised arch, it's almost flat as well.

As we were discussing this I realized that the portico is nothing more than an access to the floor below(3ft)....but it is also acting as a skylight...in conjunction with its larger companion, just aft.

The skylight will have square windows...so square windows on the sides and aft end of the portico will blend in nicely in this scale.  The front windows will remain as you have drawn them and as they are presented on Glory of the Seas....depicted in Mike's drawing.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, Rick310 said:

Beautiful drawings and portico!!

Rick

Rick, Thanks! What I do is the easy part. Rob is making the real magic as his 8' portico at 1:96th is essentially a 1" square with aft end cut in half, topped by 32" high 21/64ths" scale, turned stanchion railing surrounding it!

[ClipperFan]

7 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

As we were discussing this I realized that the portico is nothing more than an access to the floor below(3ft)....but it is also acting as a skylight...in conjunction with its larger companion, just aft.

The skylight will have square windows...so square windows on the sides and aft end of the portico will blend in nicely in this scale.  The front windows will remain as you have drawn them and as they are presented on Glory of the Seas....depicted in Mike's drawing.

 

Rob

@rwiederrich

That's consistent with what's seen on coach house side windows. For allowing light entrance, it may make more sense to have single rectangular side windows. For front and side doors, if possible, I hope you can retain the pillars which are what add dimension and interest to this structure. At this size, maybe round toothpicks could suffice.

 

[rwiederrich]

16 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

@rwiederrich

That's consistent with what's seen on coach house side windows. For allowing light entrance, it may make more sense to have single rectangular side windows. For front and side doors, if possible, I hope you can retain the pillars which are what add dimension and interest to this structure. At this size, maybe round toothpicks could suffice.

 

Tooth picks are Waaay to large.  Each pillar is slightly larger then 1mm in diameter.  I think I might fill in the slight gap between them and form a corner for the portico that incorporates both corner pillars.  Slightly different design for the corners, but still in keeping with the original architecture and maintaining dimensional interest.   I hope to address it today and add the square/rectangular rear and side windows.

Rob

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

Tooth picks are Waaay to large.  Each pillar is slightly larger then 1mm in diameter.  I think I might fill in the slight gap between them and form a corner for the portico that incorporates both corner pillars.  Slightly different design for the corners, but still in keeping with the original architecture and maintaining dimensional interest.   I hope to address it today and add the square/rectangular rear and side windows.

Rob

Rob,

Wow! Those little round toothpicks are too large? I'm surprised to read that. On the new perspective sketch it seems like they're just about the right size. Of course, it's been a while since I've actually seen one, so there is that...

[rwiederrich]

49 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob,

Wow! Those little round toothpicks are too large? I'm surprised to read that. On the new perspective sketch it seems like they're just about the right size. Of course, it's been a while since I've actually seen one, so there is that...

Yeah...when you consider that the entire portico is only an inch square...loading it up with all the details...such as pillars windows and such it gets tiny tight.  the space from the door trim to the edge of the house is just about a 1/16".  Leaving little room to snug a 1mm+ pillar.  I hope to get more done tonight and possibly a first coat of paint.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

We’ll I finished adding the pillars and windows    
Put on the first coat of paint too.  
 

Rob

[Rick310]

Rob, that looks great!!  I agree with the rectangle windows on the sides and really like the curved windows on the front.

Rick

[ClipperFan]

2 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

We’ll I finished adding the pillars and windows    
Put on the first coat of paint too.  
 

Rob

@rwiederrich

"A portico is a roofed steucture with columns attached to the front entry way of a home." That's how these inviting structures are described in modern architectural style. They're also generally more ornate than a plain entranceway. I think Duncan McLean nailed it when he described this small house which is actually just an entranceway to stairs leading to apartments three feet below the main deck. I also believe Rob, you nailed this tiny edifice on your first try. Well done!

[rwiederrich]

10 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

@rwiederrich

"A portico is a roofed steucture with columns attached to the front entry way of a home." That's how these inviting structures are described in modern architectural style. They're also generally more ornate than a plain entranceway. I think Duncan McLean nailed it when he described this small house which is actually just an entranceway to stairs leading to apartments three feet below the main deck. I also believe Rob, you nailed this tiny edifice on your first try. Well done!

Thanks....I considered the idea that this is an entry way...and the aft portico that must have ornate facing windows and pillars.  the panel work on its front is reminiscent of the larger carriage houses of McKay's larger clippers , which actually had poop deck cabins.  A kind of captain's palace....per se'. 

 

Next, I will be adding the stanchion  base peripheral trim and stanchions....and possibly the steps and their railing...after I add the exterior deck base trim around the aft end of the portico.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

@rwiederrich

The 44' poop deck fits a 10 foot skylight, which looks pretty well spaced with a 6 foot steering box and ship's helm, a small binnacle about a 5' companion with smokestack about 2 feet between it and the 4 foot 20 inch wide skylight with 10 inch seating on both sides. Since Stag Hound also was designed to carry passengers, it makes sense the skylight could double as a seating area, again similar to what was installed on Glory of the Seas.

Edited August 14 by ClipperFan
additional information

[rwiederrich]

3 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

@rwiederrich

The 44' poop deck fits a 10 foot skylight, which looks pretty well spaced with a 6 foot steering box and ship's helm, a small binnacle about a 5' companion with smokestack about 2 feet between it and the 4 foot 20 inch wide skylight with 10 inch seating on both sides. Since Stag Hound also was designed to carry passengers, it makes sense the skylight could double as a seating area, again similar to what was installed on Glory of the Seas.

So from this, you are saying the skylight is 10ft long  by 6ft 4 inches wide....meaning that the upper light is only 4ft wide with the addition of 10in seats on either side....rounding it out to 6ft 4in wide.....?

 

Rob

Edited August 14 by rwiederrich

[ClipperFan]

2 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

So from this, you are saying the skylight is 10ft long  by 6ft 4 inches wide....meaning that the upper light is only 4ft wide with the addition of 10in seats on either side....rounding it out to 6ft 4in wide.....?

 

Rob

Rob,

I will double check dimensions on my skylight sketch, based on Michael Mjelde's Glory of the Seas coach house roof sketch. From  memory they were each 6' long x 4' wide. His side view showed they appear to be 3' high. Look at the photo, there's seating surfaces on each side as well.

FYI: top divisions of 8 sections are wrong. I later revised the top to match sides. There really were 6 divisions, not 8 as incorrectly illustrated.

Edited August 14 by ClipperFan
additional information

[ClipperFan]

Rob,

Another conundrum to resolve isn't a big one. It's where to locate what are basically little green spots and corresponding portholes for stern cabins under the poop deck. In this case, it would have been nice if Duncan McLean had given just a little more details than he did. All we know for sure is that the main deck portico is an enclosed entrance for stairs that descend 3' below. That leads to apartments under the poop deck. A sole dimension given is 32' long by a mere 13' wide by 6' 8" high. Yet, somehow each stateroom (of which I count 7) has their own deck light (prism) and side light (porthole). The only logical way that makes sense is if the large central space is some sort of formal dining area maybe with a kitchen at the end, where the smokestake is located. Behind this presumably is the single large stateroom with double berths. Then on each side are located other various single berth staterooms, water closets and recesses, each with individual doors opening into the large central room. It looks like the front of the poop deck is about 30' wide. Subtracting 13' leaves 17'. Divided in half gives us 8 & 1/2' width on two outer ends, narrowing as you approach the stern. Before the single large stateroom are two waterclosets (toilets). They could be 4' wide entrance by 6-7' length deep, placed sideways on each side. Then a stateroom, an 8' recess and two more staterooms. Since each has their own side and deck light, it makes sense to double these. That means a watercloset, a stateroom, a recess and finally two more staterooms. If I reduce the watercloset to 3' now I have just enough room for 3 equal 7' staterooms. Tight but it works. Figuring that the 8' recess might have had its own deck and sidelight, I count 5 prisms and 5 portholes per side in the stern. That's counting 2 for the single large double berth stateroom fit for a family. Let me know if you can follow my layout and if you can, does this sounds right to you?

Edited August 14 by ClipperFan
Misspelled word

[rwiederrich]

I agree with 5 port holes per side in conjunction with 5 flush deck prisms.   That shouldn’t be too hard.   
 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

We’ll I worked on the portico and have some progress pics.  
 

Stained the top to match the deck and added the aft deck and stanchion trim.  
 

Rob

Edited August 14 by rwiederrich

[rwiederrich]

Now comes the stanchions.  
 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

Railings.   
 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

Finally paint and there you go. 
Of course I’ll add the steps later.  I don’t want to break anything that hangs away from the body.   The railing is quite fragile all by itself. 
 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

45 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Finally paint and there you go. 
Of course I’ll add the steps later.  I don’t want to break anything that hangs away from the body.   The railing is quite fragile all by itself. 
 

Rob

@rwiederrich

Beautifully done! This is just such a nice looking (dare I say delicate?) little structure. Probably the very first time this fascinating portico has been realized accurately for a Stag Hound model. Realizing that a lot of this is speculation (especially the upper railings) still, it's based on solid evidence from McKay's other ships. Regardless, you've created a lovely little portico, worthy of McKay's Pioneer craft of the California Fleet.

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

I agree with 5 port holes per side in conjunction with 5 flush deck prisms.   That shouldn’t be too hard.   
 

Rob

@rwiederrich

based on each of the 3 side staterooms being 7 feet deep, going from fore to aft, porthole #1 would be 3 & 1/2' back from the poop deck front (1/2 way to fore center of 1st stateroom) #2 would be 7' from #1 (3 & 1/2' from #1 stateroom aft center + 3 & 1/2' to stateroom #2 fore center). Then #3 would be 7 & 1/2' (3 & 1/2 from #2 stateroom aft center + 4' to 8' recess fore center) then #4 would be 10 & 1/2' from #3 (4' from 8' recess aft center + 3' beyond watercloset + 3 & 1/2' to #4 stateroom fore center) #5 is 9 & 1/2' from #4 (3 & 1/2' from #4 stateroom aft center + 6' to large stateroom #5 fore center). Meanwhile all deck prisms would be centered on the outer poop decks beginning 4 & 1/4th' from the 6 & 1/2 large apartment border & matching porthole spacing. It actually all works out very logically and precisely.... I think! 😉

[ClipperFan]

@rwiederrich I'm sharing my finished Stag Hound fore and aft portico concept. You were right too, a 1' overhang looks more balanced. It doesn't match the lovely version you built but maybe @Vladimir_Wairoa or @Luis Felipe might want to tackle this alternate concept instead. Next, I'll finish up the starboard side view and then it's on to the full 44' poop deck illustration. 

[ClipperFan]

@rwiederrich

Drawing inspiration from your triple window treatment for the side, I revised that side window. It appears to balance out the door better this way. Here's the finished starboard side for the Stag Hound portico. To complete the series, both fore and aft are included as a pair and each individually. What astounds me about Rob's rapid craftsmanship is this. His lovely, delicate portico was entirely complete, long before I could finish my conceptual sketches! Now the race is on to complete my sketch of the 44' poop deck furniture. .. 😉

 

Edited August 16 by ClipperFan
additional information

[rwiederrich]

That is a great looking window.    Good idea. 
 

Hey……about the skylight.  I know Glory had  6x6 with a 4ft light in the middle and 1ft seats on both sides.    
 

But I though Staghound had. Much larger single skylight.   That was 10ft long?   I’ll have to recheck too.   
 

Here are the two houses waiting to be installed. 
 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

One other thing to confuse you.  Duncan McLean says she had a Patent windless.   Not a hand lever windless.   
 

Here is. Patent Windless found in Campbell’s book.  Every drawing we have seen shows her with  a hand lever windless.  
Riddle me this……