Vanguard Alert - Rigging problem

[rodricbraithwaiteRodric]

I’m just about to start rigging the Vanguard Alert, and I’d be very grateful for advice.

 

Working on the hull has been a great  pleasure, thanks to the thought and ingenuity Chris has put into designing the kit. I’ve  learned a great deal from the logs of masters like Blue Ensign and Thukydides. I’ve followed some of their departures from the kit, and made my own adaptations to cope with my lack of skill and my shaky 92 year-old hands and eyes. I’ve kept a log.

 

Now I’m about to start dressing the mast, and I need to decide how the shrouds are attached. Goodwin (and the kit) shows them fixed to a collar some way below the cheeks. I don’t find Goodwin easy to understand, but his source seems to be the contemporary model of Hawke.

 

I’ve not come across this practice elsewhere, and Goodwin apparently offers no further evidence. The shrouds are usually looped over the trestle trees, where their downward tension is countered by the cheeks. Nor does Goodwin explain the Alert’s departure from normal practice.

 

Goodwin says Alert was rerigged in 1780s with the standard three yards (c.f. Sherbourne and Cheerful), when the Admiralty abandoned the four yard rig. That would be a simple solution to my problem.

 

I’d be very grateful for comments. Is it conceivable that the Hawke model is wrong, unlikely though that seems?

 

Rodric

[Gregory]

I don't' think you can go wrong by looking at Chuck's Cheerful.

Look through the log for more details.  Also, all of the Cheerful rigging is available on the Syren Web site. Revenue Cutter Cheerful 1806

 

Another great log is from Thukydides

He has posted an index to his build so it is easy to find the various steps.

 

PS

I just noticed Alert shrouds don't use the cross trees and trestle trees.  So you should feel confident following Goodwin and Thukydides.

Edited November 5 by Gregory

[rodricbraithwaiteRodric]

Gregory

Thank you. Chuck and Thucydides are stars, and I have read them closely.  I can’t begin to compete with the craftsmanship of either.

 

But the fundamental problem is that there appear to be no reliable contemporary sources for Alert’s rigging.  Instead everything seems to be conjecture, based on models. Goodwin refers to two models, both in the National Maritime Museum: a contemporary model of a similar boat, the Hawke, which shows the shrouds fixed most unusually over a collar on the masts; and a model of an unnamed cutter, whic h was completed by the NMM in 1960 and shows the shrouds rigged in the conventional way over the trestle trees.

 

My own strong feeling is that the first version is wrong, arrogant though it may seem to disagree with Goodwin and the contemporary craftsman who modelled Hawke. But I’ve asked the NMM for comments.

 

Rodric

 

 

[Thukydides]

5 hours ago, rodricbraithwaiteRodric said:

Gregory

Thank you. Chuck and Thucydides are stars, and I have read them closely.  I can’t begin to compete with the craftsmanship of either.

 

But the fundamental problem is that there appear to be no reliable contemporary sources for Alert’s rigging.  Instead everything seems to be conjecture, based on models. Goodwin refers to two models, both in the National Maritime Museum: a contemporary model of a similar boat, the Hawke, which shows the shrouds fixed most unusually over a collar on the masts; and a model of an unnamed cutter, whic h was completed by the NMM in 1960 and shows the shrouds rigged in the conventional way over the trestle trees.

 

My own strong feeling is that the first version is wrong, arrogant though it may seem to disagree with Goodwin and the contemporary craftsman who modelled Hawke. But I’ve asked the NMM for comments.

 

Rodric

 

 

I am glad you found my log helpful, I am sorry I never noticed your original question till now or I would have responded.

 

Yes this is an inherent problem with Alert. Goodwin is often not reliable and if I had my time back I would have thought more critically about his assertions. You are correct in saying almost all of the cutter examples you can find use the tresstree to attach the shrouds. However, on the other hand almost all of the models are from a little later than Alert. My gut is I would have gone with Hawke as it is contemporary and about the right size (Alert was a larger cutter) and period, though I have not given it a ton of thought as it is too late for me to change anything now. I have also since found a possible rigging warrent for alert which might help.

https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-557865

 

One of the key things to remember is if you run the shrouds up to the trestle trees, you need to reverse the topgallant mast (so the topgallant is in front of the mainmast). I would also recommend you check out Blue Ensign's log as I relied on him heavily and he goes into great detail regarding his thinking on matters such as this.

 

I would also note in my case that I did a few things wrong (in retrospect) with regards to this area of the model:

1. I confused the pendants of the tackles with the running backstay tackles. So I missed the pendants of the tackles which should hang below the shrouds. BE correctly shows this in his build.
2. I followed Goodwins arrangement for the shrouds which I am pretty sure is wrong. It should have been the last shroud that was a single instead of the first.

Edited November 6 by Thukydides

[rodricbraithwaiteRodric]

Thucydides

 

Thank you for this very helpful reply. 

 

Your log is a model, not least because of the internal links which make it much easier to navigate. It’s widely consulted (not least by my son Ricahrd, who’s building a spectacular 1/25 scale model of the replica Greek trireme Olympias).

 

Many of the models (Speedy, Cheerful) are indeed later than Alert. But Sherbourne is earlier (though smaller), and Ancre have an excellent monograph on the French cutter Le Cerf , which was a contemporary of Alert and much the same size.

 

I’ve also read Blue Ensign carefully: his model is a spectacular piece of craftsmanship and a pleasure. And his arguments about the rigging are fascinating even if I don't find all of them convincing.

 

But on the whole I remain unconvinced by the Hawke arrangement, and I shall almost certainly stick with the more orthodox precedents. If I do, I shall indeed put the topgallant before the mainmast.

 

Best

 

Rodric

 

 

[rodricbraithwaiteRodric]

Thucydides

 

I forgot to thank you for the reference to the NMM document on Alert’s rigging. I’m  studying it. Richard (who also has a log on Model Ship World) was alerted to your log by Ropes of Scale, whom he consulted about the rigging for his trireme.

Rodric