HMS Triton by James Flynn - POB - Beginning My learning of the construction of ships of the line

[James Flynn]

6 minutes ago, AnobiumPunctatum said:

I think it depends on your personal taste. I have looked at all the woods mentioned. Since I paint my models, I finally decided on boxwood and holly. With natural wood models, the combination of pear and boxwood also works very well. It's best to get some samples and then decide what you like best.

Know I wish I hadn't already gone out and bought all this oak, but I thank you guys for your knowledge best to know early then closer to the end, but dang I'm going to half to build the front again for the fourth time. Guess that's modeling, do it until its right. Thanks again  

[James Flynn]

34 minutes ago, AnobiumPunctatum said:

I think it depends on your personal taste. I have looked at all the woods mentioned. Since I paint my models, I finally decided on boxwood and holly. With natural wood models, the combination of pear and boxwood also works very well. It's best to get some samples and then decide what you like best.

Wow boxwood and pear exceptive and hard to get disappointing and discouraging 

[James Flynn]

38 minutes ago, AnobiumPunctatum said:

I think it depends on your personal taste. I have looked at all the woods mentioned. Since I paint my models, I finally decided on boxwood and holly. With natural wood models, the combination of pear and boxwood also works very well. It's best to get some samples and then decide what you like best.

what would red cedar be like in your opinion?

[James Flynn]

40 minutes ago, AnobiumPunctatum said:

I think it depends on your personal taste. I have looked at all the woods mentioned. Since I paint my models, I finally decided on boxwood and holly. With natural wood models, the combination of pear and boxwood also works very well. It's best to get some samples and then decide what you like best.

what would you think about teak it's supposed to be great for boats but models not sure 

[AnobiumPunctatum]

I didn’t work with both timbers. In Europe lots of modellers choose pear and cherry.

Expensive is relative. You work a really long time on such a model. So the monthly costs are also for box and pear are not to high.

[James Flynn]

1 hour ago, vossiewulf said:

The large grain of oak is not appropriate for small ships, using oak for small scales results in ships that look like toys. Wooden ship modeling wood has always been as fine-grained as possible while holding good detail and being reasonably workable. The traditional wood used on contemporary models was European boxwood, a very fine-grained wood. It's hard to get and therefore expensive, so most modelers have turned to other fine-grain woods like pear, Castillo boxwood, cherry, or yellow cedar.

would you have an opinion on Acacia or teak 

[James Flynn]

6 minutes ago, James Flynn said:

would you have an opinion on Acacia or teak 

I have some black walnut, but I'm concerned that it might be too dark a wood 

[James Flynn]

2 hours ago, AnobiumPunctatum said:

I didn’t work with both timbers. In Europe lots of modellers choose pear and cherry.

Expensive is relative. You work a really long time on such a model. So the monthly costs are also for box and pear are not to high.

another quick question I have is the size wood I should use for my planking and my decking I'm thinking 1/4 wide x 1/8 thick I'm wondering because for such a small model that might be too big for 1/48 scale. I struggle with working out scale. Looking at it just seems too wide to be accurate scale. and do you know how long the bored should be to be accurate scale so I can have the right separation marks between them?     

Edited December 15 by James Flynn

[James Flynn]

Can anyone tell me? Did the HMS Triton have a copper bottom?

[JacquesCousteau]

Nice start!

 

On the wood issue: Cherry is a nice wood that's cheaper some of the others that have been mentioned, if you'd like the model to look a bit darker. Rather than buying a bunch of samples and testing them out, you could look at models on this site that you like the look of and see what wood you like. If you search, you'll also find several posts about which types of wood to use. Some say that Beech does a decent job of representing oak in scale, for instance, and others like Alaskan Yellow Cedar, Holly, or other woods. Based on a quick look, Teak seems to have large visible grain which could be a problem for modeling.

 

As for planking dimensions, 1/8-inch thick wood is much too thick for the curves of the hull. People generally use 1/16, 3/64, or 1/32-inch thick wood for planking--something that will easily bend. 1/32-inch curves very well but doesn't leave you with much room for sanding, 1/16-inch may be better for a model of this size. I'd recommend checking what thickness other people have used for planking similar models (such as the Winchelsea, another frigate which has a lot of build logs on this site). The width will depend on whatever was appropriate for the time and place--without doing a lot of research, you could probably just see what other people have used for similar models in this scale.

[James Flynn]

3 hours ago, JacquesCousteau said:

Nice start!

 

On the wood issue: Cherry is a nice wood that's cheaper some of the others that have been mentioned, if you'd like the model to look a bit darker. Rather than buying a bunch of samples and testing them out, you could look at models on this site that you like the look of and see what wood you like. If you search, you'll also find several posts about which types of wood to use. Some say that Beech does a decent job of representing oak in scale, for instance, and others like Alaskan Yellow Cedar, Holly, or other woods. Based on a quick look, Teak seems to have large visible grain which could be a problem for modeling.

 

As for planking dimensions, 1/8-inch thick wood is much too thick for the curves of the hull. People generally use 1/16, 3/64, or 1/32-inch thick wood for planking--something that will easily bend. 1/32-inch curves very well but doesn't leave you with much room for sanding, 1/16-inch may be better for a model of this size. I'd recommend checking what thickness other people have used for planking similar models (such as the Winchelsea, another frigate which has a lot of build logs on this site). The width will depend on whatever was appropriate for the time and place--without doing a lot of research, you could probably just see what other people have used for similar models in this scale.

I thank you for your responce this helps me a tun. I'm thinking of using hard maple with a erly american stane for the planking and decking and black walnut for darker contrest like trim work and for the black strip on the side of the hull mainly because both have a fine grain structure but I don't see any one using maple at all can't help but wonder why from my research it seems to be a great wood stra straight grain esy to work finer grain then even boxwood can't figure why more people aren't using it.

[JacquesCousteau]

5 hours ago, James Flynn said:

I thank you for your responce this helps me a tun. I'm thinking of using hard maple with a erly american stane for the planking and decking and black walnut for darker contrest like trim work and for the black strip on the side of the hull mainly because both have a fine grain structure but I don't see any one using maple at all can't help but wonder why from my research it seems to be a great wood stra straight grain esy to work finer grain then even boxwood can't figure why more people aren't using it.

That's odd, as maple is pretty frequently used--typing it in the search bar returns over 2,000 results. For examples, see:

 

 

Walnut is also frequently used, especially as a second planking material in kits, although some complain that it's too brittle or has too visible grain. 

[AnobiumPunctatum]

10 hours ago, James Flynn said:

Can anyone tell me? Did the HMS Triton have a copper bottom?

No and Yes. In the beginning of her career HMS Triton had white stuff. In the beginning of the 1780th I am quite sure that she got a coppered hull. I will have a look this evening.

[James Flynn]

On 12/16/2024 at 8:07 AM, JacquesCousteau said:

That's odd, as maple is pretty frequently used--typing it in the search bar returns over 2,000 results. For examples, see:

 

 

Walnut is also frequently used, especially as a second planking material in kits, although some complain that it's too brittle or has too visible grain. 

Ya I found quit a few maple and walnut after I made my post just didn't dig deep enough, I was reading in the 

Wood discussion...Where to use it? Where to get it? What types are best? How to Finish it?

and didn't see any maple talked about in this desiccation then made my post I should have dug deeper. 

[AnobiumPunctatum]

On 12/16/2024 at 3:13 PM, AnobiumPunctatum said:

No and Yes. In the beginning of her career HMS Triton had white stuff. In the beginning of the 1780th I am quite sure that she got a coppered hull. I will have a look this evening.

I had a look in Winfield: Triton was coppered in June 1778.

[James Flynn]

2 hours ago, AnobiumPunctatum said:

I had a look in Winfield: Triton was coppered in June 1778.

Thank you very much for taking the time for me I appreciate it. 

Edited December 18 by James Flynn

[James Flynn]

Before I glue this could I ask if you all think I have my transom faired down at a steep enough angle?

Edited December 19 by James Flynn

[James Flynn]

I am asking because it's my first like this and I'm afraid I may have taken to much off but I'm not wanting to waste what I have if it is still OK 

[James Flynn]

I'm having trouble seeing mine taking the same over all shape as this POF build 

[James Flynn]

I can't find the plans for the rudder I looked all through the downloads 3 times and I guess I'm missing something but I  can't find it 

[JacquesCousteau]

On 12/19/2024 at 1:41 AM, James Flynn said:

Before I glue this could I ask if you all think I have my transom faired down at a steep enough angle?

Fairing the stern can be tricky. The only way to know if it's right is to check with a batten.

[James Flynn]

I still have repairs to make on the windows sanding did some damage and I still need to glue of the outer frames after I separate and clean them up, but over all I'm happy with the results.

[James Flynn]

All these frame pieces are made of maple the window frames are birch 

[James Flynn]

Can anyone show me how the masts and bowsprit are attached to the hull of this frigate please?  unable to find anything on it.

[Gregory]

The plans do not show anything?

Usually, with a POB model  there are instructions for 'stepping' the masts and bowsprit.

 

Without seeing your drawings it would be difficult to suggest anything.

 

You could look at just about any kit build log to see how it is accomplished.  There is usually an opening in the deck and some type of cut-out in the backbone to locate the masts in their proper position.

[James Flynn]

34 minutes ago, Gregory said:

The plans do not show anything?

Usually, with a POB model  there are instructions for 'stepping' the masts and bowsprit.

 

Without seeing your drawings it would be difficult to suggest anything.

 

You could look at just about any kit build log to see how it is accomplished.  There is usually an opening in the deck and some type of cut-out in the backbone to locate the masts in their proper position.

My concern is in placing them in their proper locating and with the bowsprit especially that it's at the proper angle. also, I'm unable to find anything that tells me how much doubling it required when connecting the main mast to its 2 toper masts. I found this in the build plans, and it has helped allot but not with everything  

Triton Mast and Spar Dimensions.pdf

[Gregory]

1 hour ago, James Flynn said:

My concern is in placing them in their proper locating and with the bowsprit especially that it's at the proper angle. also, I'm unable to find anything that tells me how much doubling it required when connecting the main mast to its 2 toper masts. I found this in the build plans, and it has helped allot but not with everything  

 

If that information is not included in the plans they do not appear to be very useful for building a model ship.

 

Have you considered getting a kit?   The contents of a kit will give you a good idea of what is required in the way of plans, material and instructions to build a model, even if you decide to go ahead with a scratch project.

 

You might take a look at some of the kit reviews here to see what is required to build a ship model.

 

Here is a log where James builds the prototype for HMS Harpy, a Vanguard kit.

 

 

It will give you a good idea of what materials are needed  even if you make the parts yourself.   You can also see how the plans and instructions show how things should look.

[James Flynn]

2 minutes ago, Gregory said:

If that information is not included in the plans they do not appear to be very useful for building a model ship.

 

Have you considered getting a kit?   The contents of a kit will give you a good idea of what is required in the way of plans, material and instructions to build a model, even if you decide to go ahead with a scratch project.

 

You might take a look at some of the kit reviews here to see what is required to build a ship model.

 

Here is a log where James builds the prototype for HMS Harpy, a Vanguard kit.

 

 

It will give you a good idea of what materials are needed  even if you make the parts yourself.   You can also see how the plans and instructions show how things should look.

I dream of having the ability to perches and build a kit but I'm an old man and on a verry tightly fixed income I can't see me being able to afford one in this lifetime unfortunately. Hence my choice for a scratch build  

[James Flynn]

[James Flynn]

42 minutes ago, James Flynn said:

I dream of having the ability to perches and build a kit but I'm an old man and on a verry tightly fixed income I can't see me being able to afford one in this lifetime unfortunately. Hence my choice for a scratch build  

I think I'm going to take a shot in the dark and set it at 20° to the horizontal that should give me a decent sail size for speed without putting too much stress on the bowsprit when I go to make this remote controlled. hopefully fingers crossed