Question re "Line Off"

[JohnWW]

I'm not too far off starting my second model, AL Santa Maria, and I'm a little confused about "Lining Off". I've watched a build log of someone building this model but it got a bit confusing after a while so decided not to do it his way. AL don't mention any process of "Lining Off" in their instructions. The question is this.

Do I attempt, and I do mean attempt as I've never done this before, "Lining Off", or do I stick with the manufacturers instructions.

Thanks.

[Fritzlindsay]

Are you speaking about marking out the strakes of planking?  

Fritz

[JohnWW]

Yes, that's right.

Don't know whether to try marking out the bulkheads or just proceed with the manufacturers instructions.

 

[JacquesCousteau]

It may be helpful to post screenshots or links showing what you mean by AL's instructions and the other build log's methods. In general, many kits provide poor instructions on planking that produce frequently inaccurate results. It's up to you how much that matters to you. In general, the planks will need to be narrowed quite a bit near the bow. Lining off your hull can be very useful for figuring out the required taper.

[JohnWW]

Thanks for the reply. AL provide no written instructions at all, just drawings. I'm absolutely new to this, but after looking at some of the build logs there's a few things that don't look quite right to me, but it would be unprofessional of me to be critical of another members work. 

The only thing AL provide is a picture/drawing of what the hull should look like after building. This being my first model that requires detailed planking of the hull I might take your advice and line off the hull. It would be valuable experience for future models. 

The reason I asked the question in the first place was because I was unsure whether lining off the hull would be detrimental to AL's method.

[Dr PR]

You will have much better success if you take the time to determine the appropriate tapering of each plank. There are tutorials for planking in the Forum's Articles Database.

 

https://cdn.wildapricot.com/278718/resources/Documents/articles/LiningOffYourHullPlankingTutorialAndFan.pdf?version=1579727184000&Policy=eyJTdGF0ZW1lbnQiOiBbeyJSZXNvdXJjZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vY2RuLndpbGRhcHJpY290LmNvbS8yNzg3MTgvcmVzb3VyY2VzL0RvY3VtZW50cy9hcnRpY2xlcy9MaW5pbmdPZmZZb3VySHVsbFBsYW5raW5nVHV0b3JpYWxBbmRGYW4ucGRmP3ZlcnNpb249MTU3OTcyNzE4NDAwMCIsIkNvbmRpdGlvbiI6eyJEYXRlTGVzc1RoYW4iOnsiQVdTOkVwb2NoVGltZSI6MTc0MDgwODA4MH0sIklwQWRkcmVzcyI6eyJBV1M6U291cmNlSXAiOiIwLjAuMC4wLzAifX19XX0_&Signature=nZK2WLWyqAkPJ9ertf5cJiM05jcybOx8BEiVdeEf-66uM4iP~dW48h2jKOj-YSzX1yt5uyx-hiwq-TnThAs2kj6VzMj0jXrbYUDlR0ef~94Wad78dsD4VYW48xFVt9f8PFE5GhMHEV~wNguKzvh3N~dcT8gGURlZKN3kRbmlc7ZHj1hPv6mCqaGtMOqPjap-kGQ3ubh4rN49cN3W-niqdcMBJUeTs4VBW1H6pR61tNRPLiBdlM4G1BYsH-5MzAkgQe6w4DSnlnz4bruvUXk5CYgh9uTX-zeMWKwPSKX0P-mzSclKmvjswf4Kh6RRNoq5U1TrhcdiXgVgXOS82tnRaw__&Key-Pair-Id=K27MGQSHTHAGGF

 

https://cdn.wildapricot.com/278718/resources/Documents/articles/APrimerOnPlanking.pdf?version=1579727157000&Policy=eyJTdGF0ZW1lbnQiOiBbeyJSZXNvdXJjZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vY2RuLndpbGRhcHJpY290LmNvbS8yNzg3MTgvcmVzb3VyY2VzL0RvY3VtZW50cy9hcnRpY2xlcy9BUHJpbWVyT25QbGFua2luZy5wZGY~dmVyc2lvbj0xNTc5NzI3MTU3MDAwIiwiQ29uZGl0aW9uIjp7IkRhdGVMZXNzVGhhbiI6eyJBV1M6RXBvY2hUaW1lIjoxNzQwODA4MTgyfSwiSXBBZGRyZXNzIjp7IkFXUzpTb3VyY2VJcCI6IjAuMC4wLjAvMCJ9fX1dfQ__&Signature=kFKIMB0KalfS~KkWV1pKZi8lRhpTrKYNAEwcg08LIZEfFffwOC1DfsB6hJQI6jddSNjgcKsW0FmUO14aQ7z3yCAg4PiYdvJbjIMtf5ia5qAodNGn7I~NQ91jBQgC3jKz1R6yhusUKG8jnKTtwT-SnGWKtJIz6eja9e8g5rd48X-zstxjIe960q274kiAXQ7NnGvcW9PFIEXepj-lrlbG-w1l2nflp29fCj9uuBYweaqJWiX2ED4nbo3tuUWyvav2YGkkmaYjGYW8VpXV26x9lSkT~Yck-Db1uhcdW~YQSpDqUalkfrv4Wz9UJsZjBdXj~9LNCvfOzIuqh7PdUVI9JA__&Key-Pair-Id=K27MGQSHTHAGGF

[Fritzlindsay]

I am pretty sure there are no AL kits with planking as was done on actual ship. Study the articles as Phil suggests.  In the end, with the exception of a drop plank with a sniped end, all the strakes end at the rabbet and never came to a pointy end.

Fritz

 

The below left is similar to many kit makers' instructions and is totally unrealistic.  The planking on the right is what it should look like if you are interested in accuracy.  

 

[No Idea]

Hi JohnWW this is what lining off looks like

It's about the planning of the planking strakes (runs) so that you know how every single plank will fit.  It will give you the dimensions of each strake too.

 

Some more pictures to help you

You can use tape, string, cotton or anything that will follow the lines.  Now this may seem like an awful lot of planning and yes it takes a lot of time to get this right - however - if you can draw the strakes you can make them!  If you line off your hull it takes all of the guess work out of planking and you have pretty much won the battle before even cutting your first piece of wood.

 

Read the tutorials on here as they will help you through the process. Good luck!

 

Mark

[Toolmaker]

2 hours ago, No Idea said:

If you line off your hull it takes all of the guess work out of planking and you have pretty much won the battle before even cutting your first piece of wood.

Thats as inspirational as it gets when it comes to planking. 

[JohnWW]

Thanks everyone for your imput, I really appreciate it. It seems building the model correctly and how the manufacturer direct are two entirely different things. My original question and concern was if I attempted the lining off would it alter or interfere with the manufacturers directions later on down the line. Will I have the correct parts to terminate the planks correctly. I'm extremely keen to attempt the lining off as I've never done it before.

I've decided to go with the lining off and if I have to make something or alter things a bit then so be it. Being new at this I don't know the correct way ships should be built. I hope to get sterted soon. Just getting my ducks in a line before I start. 

 

[JohnWW]

This is how AL terminates the planks on Santa Maria. Would it still be ok to line off this model?Bow Planking AL Santa Maria Instructions.pdfBow Planking AL Santa Maria Instructions.pdf

[JohnWW]

Sorry, this might be easier.

[No Idea]

Hi John is your model double planked or single planked?  Also is the hull going to be painted?

[JohnWW]

Double Planked. Unpainted. The outer planks are redish type wood.

 

[No Idea]

In that case you can put the first layer of planks on just as the picture above shows.  This layer will help you get the shape of the hull probably with a bit of filler too.  You will only need to line off your second layer of planking as this will obviously be seen.

[JohnWW]

Hi Mark,

Could I line off the first layer for practice?  I'm not in any rush and it might help with the final layer. What do you think.

Thanks.

John

[No Idea]

Hi John

 

Yea I did exactly that when I made my last model - Its great practice but also time consuming.  Its also much easier to line off the second layer as you have the correct rounded shape of the hull without having to deal with bulkheads - good luck

 

Mark

[J Snyder]

Please take this advice with the proper amount of skepticism as I have not built a double planked hull.

I think it would be a good idea to practice lining out on the first layer. The concern I would have is that the seams on the second layer will be very close to the seams on the first and could cause problems. Perhaps start the first layer with a garboard plank at a slight angle making it twice as wide at the stern then the bow then do the lining out from there. On the 25ft. sloop I helped build the garboard was at least twice the width of the rest of the planks and we did the lining off from there. That helped get the rest of the planks to a reasonable shape. If that would be too confusing at least make sure you prebend the second layer planks to fit without any pressure before fastening.

Again I want to repeat that I have not built a double plank model before! 

[Fritzlindsay]

11 hours ago, JohnWW said:

how the manufacturer direct are two entirely different things.

You are spot on.  Many, not all, kit makers either have no idea how ships were planked, or don't seem to find it of any importance.  Study the articles here at MSW for some excellent guidance on lining off and then how to actually pre-shape the planks before applying them on the hull.  It is not a matter of just trying to bend them in shape on the hull.  If done properly there is little or no need for clamps to hold forced bends in place.

Fritz

[No Idea]

2 hours ago, J Snyder said:

Please take this advice with the proper amount of skepticism as I have not built a double planked hull.

I think it would be a good idea to practice lining out on the first layer. The concern I would have is that the seams on the second layer will be very close to the seams on the first and could cause problems. Perhaps start the first layer with a garboard plank at a slight angle making it twice as wide at the stern then the bow then do the lining out from there. On the 25ft. sloop I helped build the garboard was at least twice the width of the rest of the planks and we did the lining off from there. That helped get the rest of the planks to a reasonable shape. If that would be too confusing at least make sure you prebend the second layer planks to fit without any pressure before fastening.

Again I want to repeat that I have not built a double plank model before! 

This is a fantastic observation and you are absolutely correct.  Thinking back I used narrower planks on my first planking compared to the second layer. That way the overlap of any seams was minimal 👍

[glbarlow]

5 hours ago, JohnWW said:

Could I line off the first layer for practice?

Absolutely, it is good practice.  lining off is tedious but the results is worth it. It applies to any and all wood model ship hulls.  Nothing detrimental or any impact at all on the rest of the model. Kit instructions would never cover anything of this detail and seldom offer any help at all on planking.   

[glbarlow]

2 hours ago, J Snyder said:

that the seams on the second layer will be very close to the seams on the first and could cause problems

Typically the first marking is with a wider plank, I’ve never had this as an issue. 

[JohnWW]

Hi Everyone,

I've had a look at the plank widths of the model and the first layer of planks are 5mm and the second layer of planks are 4mm so I should be right to line off the first layer. Looking at the quality of Mark's work it's very obvious that lining off is essential if you want the job done correctly. Absolutely fabulous work. Easier said than done in my case but worth the effort to try it. Am I correct in saying that with Mark's example, he lines off every strake?

I'm a bit off starting to plank yet but looking forward to getting to that stage. When I first started reading about planking I have to admit it was frightening, now it's only scary.

Thanks again everyone.

 

[Dr PR]

John,

 

I was pretty nervous when starting my first plank on bulkhead model back in 1969 -  the Billings Santa Maria. The instructions were very sketchy and I didn't have the Model Ship World Forum for advice! But I got the job done and it still looks pretty good today.

 

Here is a tip for planking - go down a bit to see my "plank bending" tool in action.

 

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/37060-uss-cape-msi-2-by-dr-pr-148-inshore-minesweeper/?do=findComment&comment=1075263

 

The little Mini Iron II (Clover No. 9100) is a quilting iron for seams. I saw it mentioned in another post on the Forum as a plank bending tool. But it is also perfect for ironing sail tablings, linings and bolt ropes after they have been glued. It is less cumbersome than a large iron and the  small tip gets into tight spaces.

 

It is basically a 40 Watt/120 Volt soldering iron with specialized ironing tips. It has three heat levels, low (200F/105C), medium (390F/200C) and high(580F/295C). They recommend the low setting for silk. It is on sale on Amazon for $19.00 right now (normally $25.00). You get a plank bender, sail making tool and a quilting iron all for the price of one! It is well worth the money!

[JohnWW]

Hi Phil,

Thanks for the info. That must have been a nightmare building the Sata Maria without any instructions, or worse still no guidance available from the internet. I had a look, very nice job you've done. I already have a similar tool as the small iron. I have one used for covering model aircraft. I also made one using a soldering iron. I used a bit of 20mm copper rod, cut 15 mm off the end, braised a 7mm copper rod to the end of it, the 7mm copper rod fits down the inside of a soldering iron I have and there's a plank bender. I also made one that doesn't use heat. A bit of water and pressure and plank bent. I haven't tried it yet of course bit I hope it works. Not sure if I got the idea here or somewhere else on the net. So hopefully I've got enough plank benders to get the job done.