Lowell Grand Banks Dory by Venti - Model Shipways - 1:24

[Venti]

Hello!

This is my very first build of a model ship and I'm pretty happy I decided to go with the Dory first! The instructions seem to be pretty detailed but it's certainly different than what I expected... It is definitely making me learn ship part names which will be great in the long run. This is my progress after the first day... I kind of went out of order from the book and just glued most things together that could be glued so I wasn't waiting a long time between steps.

A couple of the things I'm not sure about when putting together...

• Is the Stern Cleat supposed to be the same shape as the Transom? Or is it supposed to stick out and be used for something else (like planking)? pictured below.
  
• When attaching the Stern Knee and Stem to the bottom of the boat, it has laser etchings for where they are supposed to be glued, but it stuck way out in front/behind the bottom... I put them centered on the boat and pushed them in so that the outer edge lines up with the bottom of the boat.
  

I appreciate any information/suggestions/help anyone has to offer me!

 

Edited March 11 by Venti
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[Kenchington]

Good to see you working on this! I finished my dory two weeks ago and am now progressing with the Norwegian pram. They are working for me as learning experiences, so I hope they will for you.

 

A few points:

 

First: Be careful when you take things out of the sequence in the instructions. That can be done but could get you into trouble at times. At least read through the booklet, cover to cover, so that you can figure out what steps, if made too early, might block others.

 

Next: Yes, the stern cleat has to be wider at this stage. Later, both will be bevelled for the planks to lie against. The aft side of the transom will be narrowed, the forward side of the transom and aft side of the cleat will have the transom's existing width and the forward side of the cleat must be wider. You are on track so far!

 

Third: You are OK with the position of stem and transom, relative to the bottom planks. (The instructions are not as clear as they might be. I put mine where you have and it worked out.) In truth, it may not matter that much as you will be sanding both areas to make a good fit for the garboards and it wouldn't be a big deal if you had to take off a little more of one or another piece.

 

And lastly: If you haven't worked through the MSW build-logs for the dory kit, I would encourage you to study them all. I found a lot of wisdom there: Both the good ideas and the pitfalls to avoid.

 

Best of luck with your build!

 

Trevor

[palmerit]

Definitely check other build logs. You’ll see mistakes you can avoid. And you’ll find problems that are commonly experienced. Some model instructions are confusing or incomplete. Sometimes the model parts have changed a bit but the instructions have not. 

[JacquesCousteau]

Looks like a nice start! I second the suggestion to check out other build logs, they have a lot of useful information.

[Venti]

Kenchington, Thank you so much for the information! I was very careful with doing things out of sequence, I am much too paranoid I'll mess something up to not be.

Thanks everyone for the replies and I have definitely looked at some other build logs! I even found a cool reference thread with photos of a real Dory.

I have a small update today! Finished all of the planking and it is finishing drying before I move forward with trimming the planks and continuing. So far it is going as well as I can hope for being the first time. I'm not sure I like the overlapping planking technique, though. Do a lot of kits do this kind of planking? I haven't looked much into it but thought they would be more butted up to each other.

As I'm getting closer to being finished. I was wondering if anyone had suggestions on the next ship I should get? I know the pram is the next in the learning series but just figured I'd ask if there are any others worth looking into or if the pram is good/bad! When thinking about getting into the hobby I was going to just dive into the deep end with Model Shipways Rattlesnake US Privateer 1:64. Something like this is definitely what I want to be doing in the long run and do the big group projects like the Winchelsea.

[JacquesCousteau]

Nice work!

 

If you're not a fan of the overlapping planking (called lapstrake or clinker planking), you may not want to do the Pram next. For your next build, the Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack would be a step up in complexity, but appears to be a well-designed kit that would prepare you well for more complex builds. It uses plank-on-bulkhead construction, which is what many larger builds use. That said, it all really depends on what you're interested in, how comfortable you are with tools, how much woodworking and related experience you have, etc. I began scratch-building very simple hulls with just the dory as experience, but used other kits (the NRG Half-Hull and the Midwest Peapod) to build skills for more complex models. Just keep in mind that a more complex build may be frustratingly difficult, though, and a full-rigged, armed ship like the Rattlesnake will have a lot of repetitive and tiny rigging work and guns to make. If you're really interested in sailing warships, a lot of people seem to have done well with one of the cutter models from Vanguard, which reportedly makes excellent kits. Cutters have just one mast and a limited number of guns, so are a bit less repetitive to build.

Edited Monday at 11:17 PM by JacquesCousteau

[Kenchington]

Hi Venti,

 

Good to see your dory coming along!

 

My Norwegian pram is progressing nicely (just took it off its building board this morning) but I'll not deny that it is a whole step more challenging to build than the dory. Still, that is kind of the idea of taking the three Model Shipways kits in sequence. The pram kit instructions are part of the problem, but the build logs on MSW can guide you through those complications.

 

As to lapstrake ("clinker" in the UK) versus smooth-skinned construction in wood:

 

In the full-scale world, lapstrake became standard in northern Europe during the Iron Age, when the many nails needed (to join the strakes together) became affordable. It's not the best way to build a large ship, so was gradually replaced with "carvel" (plank-on-frame) construction, but remained in use for small craft until the coming of plastic boats. Any kit worth building will reproduce the construction of the full-scale prototype. So, if you want to build a small, open boat from the 19th Century or a Viking longship of the 9th Century, you will need to build in lapstrake. If your aim runs to something larger and/or more recent, even a Maine lobster sloop of 1900, then it will likely be carvel -- though usually simplified to plank-on-bulkhead.

 

Trevor

[Desertanimal]

Kind of along the line that Jacques said. The smack is  very good preparation for other larger ships. The pram in my opinion is excellent for absolute beginners, after the dory. However, if you have some experience in this area “jumping” ahead to the smack is not a problem. Personally I enjoyed it quite a bit more than the pram. Of course there are other manufacturers to confuse you further. 😉

[palmerit]

Vanguard Models (https://vanguardmodels.co.uk) has nice kits that are excellent quality materials with great instructions (and a bunch of build logs here). I'm in the midst of the Sherbourne. I also have some of the Vanguard fishing boats (currently working on the Ranger, and have the Zulu and Erycina in the queue). All of these (except the Erycina) are novice kits by Vanguard's ratings.

 

The Vanguard models have more steps (and more detail) but are also easier in some ways because of the excellent instructions (and materials). Some of the Model Shipways models (even their beginner ones) can be difficult because some of the instructions are confusing in places and because there's often a mismatch between the instructions and the materials (I've seen the same with a Midwest model from them). 

 

The Vanguard models are constructed like tanks. See some of the build logs. You can also freely view the instructions on the Vanguard web site. The hull frames are really solid, which makes it easier to manipulate them when planking. The Model Shipways models are "old school" and require carefully squaring the bulkheads and adding supports and you need to carve rabbets and the like, which can get tricky. The Vanguard models are engineered to avoid some of that complication (making it unnecessary because of how the kits are designed).

 

The Vanguard models are planked using wood strips (I'm guessing the Model Shipways Rattlesnake might too), which is quite different from the way planking is done on the Dory (and Pram and Smack). I'd suggest reading some of the resources under "Modeling Techniques" on the main menu at the top.

 

The Vanguard models are a bit more expensive than some others but the materials and instructions and detail make them well worth it I think.

 

I ended up doing the Model Shipways Shipwright series (Dory, Pram, and Smack) and I'm now doing the Midwest Dory. I also did the NRG Half Hull. I'm also in the midst of both the Vanguard Sherbourne and Ranger. For me, having multiple models going at once lets me do a step in one model (or lay a plank on one hull) and let the glue dry and then do a step in another model. Or I can do something on one model that might be easy if I don't have the time to do something more complicated on another model. I did the Pram and Smack in part to get a little rigging experience before doing it on the Sherbourne. I haven't gotten back to the Sherbourne rigging because I haven't had a big enough chunk of time to work on it. It's easy to spend 30-45min laying a plank or two on a model. It's harder sometimes for me to find the few uninterrupted hours (at a time when my mind is on it) that I'd need to take up some rigging steps on the Sherbourne.

 

A big model like the Rattlesnake might take a couple years to build. I bought the Vanguard Duchess of Kingston to be my second model. It's on my shelf now. I decided I wanted to first build some smaller models where major mistakes wouldn't mean undermining a year or two of work. And I wanted to do a range of kinds of models to exercise different modeling muscles. There's also something satisfying about completing a model in a couple months. I know I'll at some point I'll get to some models that take 500-1000 hours, but even when I get there I'll probably have some parallel smaller models to work on.

Edited Tuesday at 03:05 AM by palmerit

[Venti]

Another good day of progress! Had contractors over so I just got to work on this while they worked.

 

Kind of used some creative freedom to "adjust" where the cleat was positioned. It looks like the top of the cleat is supposed to be level with the sheer/broad plank/gunwale which mine was not at all after putting everything together. So, I took my flush cut saw and cut the cleat so that it could be sanded flush with everything. I then trimmed the removed piece and glued it below the cleat. I will throw some wood filler in the old holes and the gap between cleat halves and drill some new holes, sand a lot and finish her up!

 

 

Thank you all for the suggestions and information, it helps a lot! I think I will go for the pram and smack next just because it'll be nice to have the whole set. I also will get the store credit from ModelExpo for completing the Dory so I can use it toward them. After that I definitely think I'll try a Vanguard HM Armed Cutter Sherbourne. It looks like the perfect ship to get started with the larger ships and the Vanguard models in general looks very high quality!

[Capt. Kelso]

For a first build, very impressive! Just a suggestion, as you progress, consider removing the laser burn and sand flat surfaces flush.

Good luck.

[Venti]

Hey thanks, Kelso!

I did remove any laser burn where glue would be applied! I didn't take it all off as I am going to be painting everything and assumed it would cover it. Is that not the case?

And yeah I know I have some sanding still to do haha.

[palmerit]

Depending on the kind of paint and the color, and the number of layers of paint, the laser burn will affect the color after painting. There are model painting techniques that actual exploit this by painting a dark or light undercoat before painting the surface color. 

[Venti]

That makes a lot of sense! I ended up priming it so the burn marks did go away.

I started painting it and will post pics when Its finished.
I have decided to stain the cap rail and seats instead of painting. I think (hope) it will look better hahaha.

The biggest lesson I have learned through all of this is I didn't sand enough early enough. The inside of the planks were very fuzzy and I'm guessing I didn't sand it enough before planking. It could be because I soaked them before planking too. I'm just not experienced enough with this type of wood to say.

[Venti]

Another thing that's become obvious as I've primed and painted this... I use too much glue hahahaha

 

[Kenchington]

And that's the point of building the dory: To learn techniques -- learning from your own mistakes, if that's the way things turn out. Which means that you've made great progress!

 

Looking forward to seeing what you make of the pram!

 

Trevor

[Venti]

[Desertanimal]

The amount of glue to use is certainly a learned skill. You need enough to attach the part but limit squeeze out so that clean up is easy or not necessary. Don’t sweat it, you’ll get a feel for it as you do more. 
Way until you start using different glues, the amount you need to use will change, hahaha. Looking good, keep at it!

 

Chris

[JacquesCousteau]

1 hour ago, Venti said:

That does look frustrating! If you're painting the cap rail, you can probably glue it back together and use a bit of wood filler to disguise the joints. The other option would be to make a new rail from scrap wood or by cutting from a fresh sheet of basswood of the appropriate thickness.

 

I think you mentioned that you wanted to stain the cap rail, correct? In which case you'll probably want to make a new one so that the glue joints don't show up (although I suppose you could also creatively drape some rope over the joints). If you were thinking of staining it a darker color, you may want to just make both rails from scratch from cherry or a similar darker wood. Cherry is pretty widely available in a range of thicknesses and usually at very reasonable costs, and it's a much harder, more durable wood. Basswood is also available in a wide range of thicknesses and may be easier to get at your local craft store.

[Venti]

23 minutes ago, JacquesCousteau said:

Cherry is pretty widely available

I love the idea of using a different wood! I don't currently have any, unfortunately. I'll look into getting some for future builds but it's hard to know what thickness sheets to get.

I've got it glued back together and I think I'm just going to sand it (more carefully) and paint it the green like the kit suggests. 

Another lesson learned haha.