Norwegian Sailing Pram by Venti - Model Shipways - 1:12

[Venti]

Hello all!
It's time to start another one of these as I just got the boxes with the pram and smack in it! 😁

 

I just want to start this out by asking for a suggestion on desk vises. Specifically ones that will work for the pram, smack and then the larger size ships I will be doing more of in the futures. I used to have a nice ball vice to use for stuff but not sure if I want something as mobile as that for this hobby.

 

I've been going through the other build logs for it and read through the instructions already! Pretty excited to work through this one. One thing I've kind of annoying so far is that it's not clear at all which pieces are which on one of the wood sheets. There are multiple pieces that look like they could be the transom knees... or they could be stern/bow quarter knees... I thought it was the ones right next to the bottom half of the stern transom but it looked much smaller than in the pictures so I went with the two from the empty sections shown below. It looks correct comparing the transoms to the pictures in the book so we move forward!

 

Will update soon. Thanks in advance for all the help/suggestions!

 

[Venti]

Well quick update. It looks like most people in build logs are using the larger knee-looking piece with a hole in the corner for the stern transom knee... It looks better so I am going to swap to that as well.

[Kenchington]

2 hours ago, Venti said:

the larger knee-looking piece with a hole in the corner for the stern transom knee

Something is weird. My kit had the various knees labelled by the laser-cutter.

 

I can't give you definite answers because my sheet has been cut up as I needed scrap for various bits and pieces. However, I think that the two knees you had glued to the transoms before taking your photo are the stern quarter knees.

 

The stern transom knee is the one with the transverse hole laser-cut through it. (A hole that has no known purpose!) You seem to have two copies of that.

 

The pair of knees at the far left of your image are the ones that go on top of the midship thwart.

 

The bow transom knee is next in from those two, under the mould labelled "25".

 

The pair of knees just above where you took out the bow transom are the bow quarter knees.

 

But you should double check all that!

 

 

Trevor

[palmerit]

Check to see if you might have a part sheet in your box that has a map of the parts. I'm building a Midwest model (made by Model Expo too) and discovered that the instructions were quite different from the actual layout of the parts on the sheets and only then realized that there was another sheet in the box that in addition to having a parts list at the top had a map to a couple of the laser cut sheets at the bottom.

 

I also used the wrong knee when building the Pram. Good practice to undo some glue and try again. It's definitely a skill you'll use again - and just know that you can do it with a bunch of alcohol (if using PVA) or acetone (if using CA) with a few applications and some patience is a good skill to have. Also learn from my mistake and be careful using a scalpel or other sharp blade to remove a glued piece - on my Smack I had to remove a piece and it removed all at once and a blade went into my hand (just barely escaped with just a nasty scar without needing stitches).

[Venti]

Ah thank you so much you guys!

Yes you were right, Trevor.

 

And yes Palmerit, there is indeed a sheet with the the parts and it is labeled! That will be very nice moving forward...

 

I got the knees swapped out to the correct ones and added a couple strips to the bottom of the building board to make it a bit more sturdy. Credit: Kenchington

[OldeManToad]

I had the same problem with my Pram kit. I found this picture on the internet with the correct labeling.

 

 

Hope this helps.

[Venti]

That does help a lot OldeManToad, thank you!

 

Got a little bit done today! Got the building board built and the transoms built (with the correct knees this time).

I'm not extremely happy with the bevels on the transoms but I think they will be fine... I need to not overwork them or I won't have a transom left haha... I think I put the knees a bit too high and so when I did the first bevel to match the knee, the other ones ended up not lining up with the laser marks.

 

I glued the transom holders in and plan to just cut them off afterwards. Got a nice little wedge in there and some pins to prevent anything from moving too easily and I'm about ready to start planking! After watching Chuck's planking videos I got me a little baby iron and will try to bend the planks with it. I hated having to wait most of a day for the planks to dry after soaking them in hot water. 

 

[Kenchington]

Looking good so far!

 

If you leave that char on the moulds, it will stain the planks -- or it would if you bent wet planks over the moulds. Maybe your bending approach will eliminate that. Even sanding almost-all char off mine, I still had staining. But that's not much of a problem if you plan on painting the interior.

 

The bow-transom bevels on the pram are a nightmare but you can slightly adjust the shape of each before laying a plank on it. I'd say that you are good to go for now. The point that you should probably fix before going any further are the steps on the stern transom, between the bevels for the bottom planks and the one for the keel plank. Those need sharp right-angles. Your image shows slight curves, which would push the bottom planks outwards, preventing a tight joint.

 

Trevor

[Venti]

Hey Trevor, thanks again for your insight! I do plan to paint it so I'm not worried about it staining the wood this time. 

 

As for the curve between the bevels... This was caused by my poor decision in how to sand the bevels and lack of a desk vise... I ended up sanding too much towards the center so I planned to get the planks close to ready and see how everything will fit and then adjust as needed. I'm pretty sure I'll need to use some wood filler for these spots. 

[Venti]

I got the bottom planks and keel planks bent pretty nicely! The iron works so well! It's very forgiving if you mess up a bend or just want to change it after you bent it once.

 

I had to do some editing of the build board after test fitting the bottom planks... the stern most mold was either not centered or I had it in backwards (or both). but it made the bottom planks not line up with the stern transom at all. Of course I glued the mold in extensively (yes even though the book says not too 🤪) so I needed to use some alcohol to break it out and once I turned it around everything lined up very nicely.

 

I now have 1 issues that I'd like some input before I proceed... the bow transom knee does not seem like it will be flat against any of the planks... And with this same thing, it seems like there will be a gap between the two bottom planks at the bow transom. Not just because of where the planks naturally lie, but because I don't think the two planks will be wide enough to go across the entire bottom of the bow transom. I saw Kenchington add a piece of wood between the bottom planks to fill in the gap and I will likely do the same. I'm confident it will be fine looking at the front of the boat, but how does the inside of the boat look with this? Is the bow transom knee supposed to connect to the planks on the inside of the boat?

I'm worried if I don't do something about it now, it will be MUCH harder to make look good.

 

It's obvious I will also need to makes some adjustments to the bevels on the stern transom to make them line up better with the bottom planks, but I hope that isn't too bad.... I might get all the planks prepped and dry fit them to make sure my angles all work out 🤔 Then I can mark the transoms and hopefully get them right.

 

Anyways here's some pictures. everything so far is lining up better than I hoped and I think that's a good sign 😁

[Kenchington]

1 hour ago, Venti said:

how does the inside of the boat look with this? Is the bow transom knee supposed to connect to the planks on the inside of the boat?

Yes, the knee is supposed to be in contact with the keel plank. (Full-size, that would be essential to the structural integrity of the boat.)

 

The piece I added in the end (after planning, then rejecting, a couple of other solutions) looks like the butt end of an extra plank externally but, internally, it is more like a downward extension of the knee and is probably invisible even with the closest examination.

 

I suspect that a full-size builder would shape the knee so that it extended between the bottom planks and contacted the keel plank. But he (or she) would be building the boat upright, not inverted, and with plenty of space to work inside the developing hull!

 

Trevor

[Kenchington]

1 hour ago, Venti said:

I might get all the planks prepped and dry fit them to make sure my angles all work out 🤔

You may well be a much better model builder than I am. But I could don't have mad that work. Dry-fit planks are too unstable and the fit of each strake, when finally glued in, is too uncertain until everything sets. I had to build one plank at a time. But if you can do better: Go for it!

 

Trevor

[Venti]

1 hour ago, Kenchington said:

is too uncertain until everything sets

Yeah after I said it and started thinking about it, I don't think it's a great idea... especially with the gains.

 

1 hour ago, Kenchington said:

Yes, the knee is supposed to be in contact with the keel plank

Hmm... My brain is not seeing how the bow knee contacts the keel plank like the stern knee does without the step in the transom.

 

I will sleep on it, but will probably end up doing much the same as you have. Add a piece between the bottom planks below the keel plank and make it look like an extension of the knee.

 

Again, I super appreciate your help! 

[Venti]

Very good day today! Finished all of the planking and I'm quite happy with how it turned out.

I'm still not a fan of this planking technique and I'm ready to learn POF/POB. I'm glad I am painting this since the ends of the planks didn't turn out very good. Especially on the planks I tried to make the gain like they explained in the book. 

Somehow the planks on the stern side ended up much higher ok the stern transom than they did on the bow. I'm not sure if this is a big deal and just plan to translate the curve to where it needs to be to match the planks. 

Just realized I put the keel plank on upside down hahaha so I just drew some center lines for the skeg.

 

[Kenchington]

I don't think you did badly at all with the planking, though I see where the strakes slipped at the stern, shifting everything higher (or lower, with the hull upside down on the building board). It's a difficult kit to get as close as you have done -- and impossible to meet the marked curve on the transom without trimming the sheerstrakes!

 

Trevor

[Venti]

Thanks Trevor! I am happy that the planks ended up at least symmetrical.

 

Got some more done! Steps 12-16 are done. That is Skeg, Bilge Keels, Dagger Board Case, Bottom Frames, Inwales, and Stern/Bow Quarter Knees.

 

Everything went pretty smoothly, thankfully. 

• The Skeg and Bilge Keels needed very little sanding to fay (new term learned) with the bottom of the boat. 
• Dagger Board Case was very straight forward as long as you keep everything squared up.
• Bottom frames were slightly annoying due to my ineptitude of lapstrake planking. Or maybe it is just the nature of lapstrake planking that the frames didn't line up well with the planks without lots of adjustment. Even then there were lots of gaps between the two. I plan to fill these with some wood filler and clean it up while keeping the holes in the corners for water draining.
• The inwales went extremely well. I think mostly because they are slightly larger than on the Dory and easy to handle.
• The quarter knees were also very quick and easy and came out well. Partially because of my incident early by thinking the bow quarter knees were the transom knees 🤣 they were already sanded and basically ready. All that was needed was a small amount of sanding to match the angle of the transoms.

Side note: When warned about the char rubbing off on the planks from the molds, I decided to try coating the molds with a very thinned out pva glue. After removing the ship from the building board, I am pleased to say that there was not a single mark from the laser char on the planks.

 

[Kenchington]

Looking good!

 

41 minutes ago, Venti said:

it is just the nature of lapstrake planking that the frames didn't line up well with the planks without lots of adjustment

I think that's true. Probably one reason why 19th and 20th Century lapstrake construction tended to have steam-bent timbers that only touched each plank at its upper edge.

 

47 minutes ago, Venti said:

I decided to try coating the molds with a very thinned out pva glue. After removing the ship from the building board, I am pleased to say that there was not a single mark from the laser char on the planks.

A nice solution!

 

Trevor

[Venti]

Didn't have time to post yesterday, but got some decent progress in the last 2 days. Steps 18-22 done. Well, I still have a bit of cleanup on the mast step but that's it.

Unfortunately, it took way longer to do these steps than it should have 😭. 

 

Seat and thwart frames went ok. I spent a VERY long time trying to make sure they would be square with the boat as well as fitting against the frames as good as I could. They all came out pretty square I think but it wasn't as good getting the angles to match the planks. So I did the best I could without taking so much off that it would look different than the others and then filled in the gaps with wood filler. (Thinking about getting some auto body filler to try instead of the wood filler in the future). With trying to match the angles, it changed the location of the drain holes and they didn't line up with the corners in many cases so I need to add them back manually.

 

The floor board cleats went on very easy and I didn't even need to pre-bend them. After completing the next step I realized that I had used the wrong strips for the cleats and went through the process of removing them which was not easy. You can see the random spots of gray on the planks and that is from my tweezers slipping from the cleat and damaging the planks. I eventually though to poke tiny holes with my tweezers throughout the cleats so the alcohol could get all of the glue at the same time and then it became much easier to remove. Not ideal if you want to save the piece of course but these strips were meant for the rub rails and I did not want to try to put all 5 pieces together and then glue it to the sheer. After that I cut the correct size strip to length and bent them with my iron and glued them in nicely. Now I just need to get a 1/8" x 3/64" strip from hobby lobby for the rub rail.

 

The transoms were very straight forward. I was able to just cut the bow transom right where the laser mark was as the plank ends at this side were almost perfect. I had to translate the line on the stern transom up so that I would be above the sheer plank. 

 

The mast step was another disaster 🤣 I did not realize that the bottom layer was meant to go between the frames and the top layer went across the top. I was concerned about the angle the mast would be at so I started looking at other builds and discovered how they were meant to be. So I tried to trim the bottom layer (after they were glued together) and it ended up breaking off the top piece too. I went to sheet that they came from originally and cut new ones out so that it would fit better. Despite being very careful, while drilling the hole for the mast, the top board broke right in the center. I think I should have drilled the hole before cutting out of the sheet and this might not have happened. Or maybe add some CA glue around where the hole will be. Anyways, I glued the two halves of the top layer to the bottom layer and finished making the hole for the mast and all things considered, it came out alright. Still need to clean the end up to line up with the frames still but I wanted to make sure the glue was completely dried before doing this...

 

 

[Kenchington]

Coming together really nicely!

 

Trevor

[MBerg]

Looking good so far! I'm just slightly ahead of you, (though I started mid last year! ). 

 

As for the mast step, I broke my top piece in half as well. Seems like a common thing. Though I didn't put the bottom layer between the frames with the top layer across. If that's how the instructions call it, I absolutely did not catch that.

[Venti]

Been a few days but I've got some progress done! (In the middle of selling and looking for a new home).

 

Got steps 23-32 done. (29 and 30 are non-existent). And part of 34 done; the first 34 of the two 🤣

 

23: Chain Plate Slots

     Drilled a hole with a bit about 1" and used a xacto blade saw to make it square (ish). Had to modify the saw blade a bit to get it to fit in the hole but afterwords it came out ok. I'm thinking it'll look fine with the chain plates installed.

 

24: Rudder Gudgeon Pad

     Not much to say here. Very straightforwards and simply. The laser marked slot on the transom was not the center of my boat so I had to just slide it over.

 

25: Rowlock Pads

     I cut a few 3/4" strips and marked every 1/4" and used a regular xacto blade to shape these. Ended up making 5 because one (my first one) did not come out how I liked. The instructions only mention that they should be 1' 6" aft of the forward thwart frames but later pictures show 4 total so I just measured the 1.5" behind the bottom frames 2 and 3.... now that I'm writing this I see that they say 1.5" behind the thwart frames and not bottom rails... whoopsies. My boat is just custom 😁

 

26: Rub Rails

     Since I used the strips intended for this for the floor board cleats and removed them, I got some new pieces from Hobby Lobby. They didn't have 3/64"x1/8" but they did have 1/16"x1/8" so I used that and sanded it a little extra to get closer to 3/64". Pre-bending them helped a lot and I welcome the opportunity for more bending practice as I have lots more to do in my future! I got them pretty flat with the inwale and sheer plank so I was happy about that.

 

27: Dagger Board

     Pretty straight forward. I started sanding this thinking I would only bevel one side of the dagger board but mid sanding i saw that it did say to bevel both sides so I did. Thankfully I wasn't too far in and it came out mostly symmetrical. The instructions do not say to do this but I rounded the front edge as it didn't seem very aerodynamic with a flat edge. I made the stop at the top as the instructions say with 2 long strips along the top with a small piece in between at the ends. Sanded it all level and rounded everything and it looks good!

 

28: Rudder

     Nothing too tricky here either. I left the char on the curved side of the rudder to help me keep track of my bevel job to make sure I didn't over-do it at any point. Rounded the front at the bottom and cut out the small notches for the pintles.

 

31: Thwarts and Stern Sheets

     I'm not sure if it matters but for the stern sheets, I glued a strip of scrab to the bottom to hold them together so I kept my spacing. It also allowed me to sand the edges and make sure they will line up in the end. 

     The forethwart was very simple. I had to trim the thwart knees a little to make sure they were level and flush with thwart. I had to do quite a bit of trimming to the thwart so that it would fit especially in the slot for the thwart frame. The slots were not deep enough to fit.

     The midship thwart was a very different situation... the knees required significant trimming so that the thwart was at the same level as the dagger board case. So much, that the thwart knees could not reach the inwale... I trimmed them so there is no notch for the inwale and attached them to the sheer plank. Once I go these made, I put a tiny bit of glue on the bottom and glued them to the thwart and let it dry. Afterwards, I slid the thwart into position and glued the knees to the plank. Once that glue dried I was able to easily break the bond and slide out the thwart.

 

33: Painting the Hull

     I just got done with priming everything and letting it dry. Will sand it and paint it tomorrow!

 

34-1: Floor Boards

     I really liked how the stern sheets come out when using the extra strip of wood glued to the bottom so I decided to do that with the floor boards. Once all boards were glued together, I roughed out the shape of the bottom of the boat and started making sawdust. I did this for both sets of floor boards but on the ones that go around the dagger board case, I only glued the long strips together. Once I get them glued in, I will do my best getting the smaller boards in and symmetrical.

 

Had a random issue where the tip of the bow transom knee broke off - above the hole for the stay plate. I "fixed" it with wood filler... I spent way too much time sanding it to make it look half decent and then put some thin CA glue into the wood to make sure it doesn't break again. It's "high performance" wood filler but I don't trust it haha. What's everyone's opinion on where pictures are in these posts? Right after the section talking about the relevant parts? Or all dumped at the end of the post like I usually do.

 

 

 

[druxey]

Progressing nicely!

[Kenchington]

As Druxey said: It's looking good !

[Venti]

On 4/20/2025 at 5:55 PM, Venti said:

the knees required significant trimming so that the thwart was at the same level as the dagger board case

 

Whelp, while reading another build log I noticed something I hadn't noticed before... I put the dagger board case through the bottom of the plank instead of setting it on top of it so the dagger board would go through it... This is why the dagger board case was too low for the thwart.

What is weird though, the hole in the plank was MUCH to long for even the entire dagger board case... if it was just for the dagger board itself, it would have been even worse which would have looked terrible with the dagger board lowered. 

[MBerg]

Oh yes. The cutout for the dagger board case is way too long. You're not the only one that's commented on that. Everyone I've seen mention it has filled in the extra space with scrap wood or filler. I used some scrap and sanded it down.