HMC Sherbourne 1763 by Hollander-jan - Caldercraft - 1/64

[Stockholm tar]

Jan,

 

Yes, that looks a vast impovement. Have you thought of actually planking the rudder, before you go any further? You could use some of the thinner maple left over from the deck, if you have any. This is what I did, with three shaped planks each side up the length of the rudder, with thin paper strips for the strengthening bands across them. Just a thought, but I think it improves the look of the rudder and makes it more authentic.

 

Michael,

 

I agree with you in that rudders were often not level with the keel, and for the reasons you mention, but I think for cutters and other similar vessels of this period, they probably were.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Stockholm tar

[michaelpsutton2]

I looked last night and although offset rudders make their appearance on draights at the NMM about 1750, they do not become common until after 1800.

[Hollander-jan]

Kester,

 

It is a good suggestion to plank the rudder never thought about it. I have more than enough planks to do so. The rudder is complicated work, I want it removable, don't  know if I can achieve that but it is my goal. The state of things is now two pintels and two gudgeons so 2 up one to go. And the planking.

Will be very happy when this is done. I see the rudder as one of the most important elements of the model, at last for this moment. 

 

By the way I have bought a couple of canons in Polen. Very good value for money. ( 14 Euro for 8 canons including shipping) .They came as a kit and I assembled one just to see how they look and fit on the ship.

I think they are all right and look better then those that came with the kit. Al tough the are not as good as the ones Dubz made.

 

 

 

Jan

 

 

[egkb]

They are indeed a nice Cannon Jan and 8 for €14 including postage sounds brilliant ! (I might have to get that address off of you)

 

Do the wheel 'hubs' need to be trimmed a little do you think? (they seem to stick out a bit) I'm sure one of the others will advise us.

 

All The Best Jan

 

Eamonn

[Hollander-jan]

Hi Eamonn,

 

ofcourse you cab have the addres http://www.rbmodel.com/index.php?action=products&cat=news they do a swift job you order - they mail they have the

order- then when they post it - all within 5 days in my case. 

I just made one for practice yesterday and finished it today here are the pictures notice the wheels. they still need some sanding, comes all right.

 

 

 

 

Have a nice weekend 

 

Jan

[egkb]

Thanks Jan

 

Bye for Now,

 

Eamonn

[Hollander-jan]

The rudder is a real pain in the ears, hope not offending anyone. The state is now 4 up one to go, 2 pintels and 2 gudgeonons. The last one will be the most difficult because by 2 you alway have some margin number four gives you no margin. I realy don't know how you all did this there must have been a lot of swearing be involved in achieving things as they are in the other (your) build(s). I am dry fitting this thing now for  100 times and not relay satisfied.

 

There will be an end to this but I am sure I will redo it after I have the right soldering materials and equipment, ( in a year or in two monts).

 

I whis you all a good week-end and see you again on MSW,

 

Jan

[Hollander-jan]

The rudder is hanging in the gudgeons. It planked and it is a dry fit. There still is work to do. And let me tell you I will remake it after my soldering is in order. It is close enough to the ship but it is not in a proper way. And certainly not historical right. The other thing is that it is on the ship and it works, for the time being this is it. I will make a helm and do some cosmetic work so it will look a bit as it should. 

 

I found this almost impossible to work out, because of the three point where it must turn on. I made several mistakes witch made it  more difficult and before I discovered these mistakes and found more ore less the right path there was at times a feeing of I just glue it on WHAM BAM THANK YOU MA'M.

 

But that is the past it is on and here is a picture.

 

 

Jan

Edited February 17, 2014 by Hollander-jan

[tkay11]

It's great that you have the determination, Jan, to see this kind of challenge through. That's part of the fun/pain of the hobby. There are lots of challenges like this. The pain is in not getting it right first time, second time, third... . The fun is when you hit on the solution, and that's when the quiet little smile comes to your face as you look on your little win and move on to the next challenge. Far better than computer games in which you just succeed at a certain level then move on to the next -- but have nothing solid or tangible left to look at or admire.

 

Tony

[Stockholm tar]

Jan,

 

Like what he said, Tony that is. As for us all ***** ing – we'd rather not mention it!

 

Your rudder planking looks great and, I think you'll agree, it's much better than leaving it one big slab of wood. Yes, there are still a few problems with the iron work, but nothing that can't be overcome, I'm sure. What to do though?

 

First I think I'd lower the top pintle fitting, so that the actual pintle fits inside the gudgeon on the stern post. The middle one looks as though it needs to come out from the rudder a little, so that there is more of a gap for it to fit its gudgeon. The bottom one looks fine.

 

Hope this helps.

[Hollander-jan]

Thank you boys for these welcome and kind words to what this is. Like I said I redo it in due course. There is enough wood to make a new rudder and if not I will get some proper wood to do it again. 

Yes Kester the top one is far to long, and in the middle one there is even no gudgeon at all. 

 

My plans are now leave it for the time being.  This is because it absorbs all off the good energies. And yes Tony I have the determination but sometimes there must also be skill and insight how to tackle a problem. For this project I must, like a said earlier, get my soldering skills at some higher level.

Plus the insight on how to get  the three pintels and gudgeons all work together in one straight line from top to bottom. 

 

After the cosmetics I will make another picture.

 

Jan

[Hollander-jan]

Here are the pictures after the cosmetics. I must say I am proud of it, being a first timer. It is a pleasure to see that the determination has overcome some of the difficulties.

All holes are drilled by hand and elbow crease. For the iron bands on the rudder I use the capsule off a port bottle cut to size on a glass plate.

The helm is from an old peace of furniture. It is sanded in shape part by machine part by hand. The black band on the end of the helm an the top of the rudder suggest iron.

 

 

Jan     

[Stockholm tar]

Jan,

 

Looking very good. I would suggest, though, you trim the bottom of the rudder to match the keel line.

[Hollander-jan]

Thank you Kester for your kind comment. I saw the rudder to, I take over you suggestion an trim it to the keel line, being very careful not to damage anything but for now I have a rest and do some study on the remaining of the build.

There is a lot of work to do and I want to be prepared for what comes next. And most off all I want to make the most of what is left. Plus some extra's. Don't know what, but I will come up with something. 

Thanks again for all your comments, please keep them coming, Like we said, this ship is full off learning. A next one will certainly be better.

 

For now I wihs you all the best in coping with the Swedish winter (heard from my son, he lives in Stockholm, that is is very dark and grey).

 

Jan

[Stockholm tar]

For now I wihs you all the best in coping with the Swedish winter (heard from my son, he lives in Stockholm, that is is very dark and grey).

 

 

Thanks Jan, but it's actually been pretty mild this year - with the temperature hovering around 0°, and rain rather than snow! We've had some of the latter, but not that much and it's now all gone, at least here in Stockholm. I actually prefer it when it's colder, as it's usually not so damp. It is dark and grey, although in the last couple of days we've had some sunshine, and it looks like more of the same later on.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Stockholm tar

[NAZGÛL]

Nice progress Jan!

 

 

/Matti

[Hollander-jan]

The top rail is on here are some pictures of the weight I put on to get the two glued on in one go. The are fixed with two nail on each side. Spot on and no glu stains on the ship. Used pva as a glue.

 

 

BTW the rudder broke of  have to do it again.

 

Jan

Edited February 24, 2014 by Hollander-jan

[Stockholm tar]

Jan,

 

Ouch – you must be a braver man than me! Good job though.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Stockholm tar

[Hollander-jan]

Thank you Kester,

 

It took me 4 days to see how it must be done. Only to find a way out of the problem. I build a rig for the boat where it would be solid and not got left or right, only down force was permitted. Fitted several times dry and drilled the four holes two on each side very carefully.

 

Then I put it up in the rig and glued the rail after I was sure it would go in the right place the nails holding it in place. I had to make good contact with boat and rail, there was no way of getting clamps on, weight was the only option. So I did put almost 5 kg of weight on it for a good glue / rail / boat contact. After 2 hours al was ok and a sigh of relief  

 

It all worked out the way I had thought and planned it, but you are right some bravery is involved. On the other hand Cutters are strong vessels 

 

 

Jan

[Hollander-jan]

After an attempt to make the gratings witch where not good enough and discarded I took up blackening of the guns and experimented with several methods. I and up till now with a kind of bronze colour more experiments will follow.  Beside Gun Black knowes enyone a easy method for blackening? 

 

Swvel guns was next don't like he ones and mounting of the kit swivels. I make my own mounting lots exempels on the net. The gun itself is an other story. Here are two attempts to make an acceptable  gun.

 

The kit gun is foor comparison. 

 

 

I know that the brass one me be oversized but is a bit easyer to make, the black one have to get trunions The hand handels can be better. 

 

 

 

Jan

Edited February 26, 2014 by Hollander-jan

[Gregor]

Hi Jan

Here is my method, and Dirk posted another source for a probably even better blackening solution.

Cheers,

Gregor

[aliluke]

Hi Jan

Been following your log. The rails look great. My lessons in blackening:

- Remove all grease from the part with a soak and brush in lacquer thinners or acetone.

- Do not touch the part after this as your fingers are greasy!

- Soak part in Spirit of Salts (a diluted form of sulphuric acid) for 10 minutes or so.

- Soak in the blackening solution. I use Birchwood Casey's Gun Black and dilute 50/50.

- Gently wipe with tissue paper - if the black comes off re-soak in the blackening, if it still comes off re-soak it again and so on.

 

The most important thing is to prepare the part by getting rid of grease and then giving it an acid etch. Many miss this. Next is to keep your greasy fingers off it until it is finished.

 

Blackened bits beats painting easily in terms of look but I do both...Certainly cannon barrels are better blackened but I'm more inclined to just paint bolts and other smaller parts.

 

Cheers

Alistair

[Hollander-jan]

In my search for a non chemical blackening processes I have reached a goal. I have found a way to do it all me it not be as good as chemical it is cheap and well to do at least for cannons.

 

Clean the object well with ammonia and acid, I did half an hour in lemon juice. Don't touch it after the cleaning. Take the object with clippers to a flame ore a torch and make it red hot. After it is red hot put in soya sauce, the black sauce for oriental food. let it cool for half a minute and take it out with clippers make it hot again. repeat this two or three times. Rinse with clean tap water and the result is a black brass object.

 

The result is well enough for the price and satisfying for me.

 

 

the second picture is a comparison between different sorts of brass a cannon and a screw both brass. The screw is blacked better then the cannon although treated in the same way, it must be the composition af the alloy I think. The screw has to withstand more force than a model gun so I think it will be off an other composition of materials.

 

I did this search because I was convinced that there must be a way other than chemical, not that I am against using chemicals ore painting. The search was fun to do and gave me a lot of information.

 

Jan

 

 

[Gregor]

Great, Jan, your blackening agent definitely smells better than my ammonia, and it seems to do the job! On the market your process should get an "organic" label.

Thanks for sharing the fun and info!

Gregor

[egkb]

Wow Yan.. Clever Stuff, have you any idea if it works with the Kit Guns (the basic ones supplied in the Kit) or is it a Chemical reaction with the Brass and Soy Sauce ?

 

All The Best

 

Eamonn

[Hollander-jan]

Eamonn, This is only for brass. The guns of the kit will melt by the heat I supplied. My guns are the ones from Polen see post #123.

 

They are cheap enough to do this kind of experiments with. By the way I experimented with brass screws before I put cannons to the test.

 

Jan

[egkb]

Thanks Jan, I thought that would indeed be the case.

 

Eamonn

[Hollander-jan]

 I have decided to scratch the swivel guns and make a detachable mounting. Therefore I will take the mounting of Tony and my own research as an example.  Of course it will be another mounting but the principle will be the same.  Detachable is what they are I think (have been in reality) I have looked at several  swivels and have to decide yet which one it will be.

example A

example B

 

this one has a plate for mounting

example C

 

The gun in picture B has the most potential for me to scratch.

 

It will be a lot of sawing an filing because I have no late

 

Jan

Edited February 28, 2014 by Hollander-jan

[tkay11]

Interesting research. I look forward to the finished swivel guns. Fun, isn't it!

 

Tony

[Hollander-jan]

Tony, Fun it is hard work man   No it is fun but it is all so G....d... small, and when you take a picture in close you see what is wrong.

 

No serious now. I have tried some other approach to the swivel but with no success so I returned to the proven solution you made and it worked but when I saw it on the jig I made, you had to be 2.50 meters (is that over 7 feet? ) tall to reach it. Smaller OK that next one was smaller. But as you will know scratching is one make all the same is two.

I put some pictures on maybe today maybe tomorrow.

 

Jan 

Edited March 1, 2014 by Hollander-jan