66 55/95 tons US Revenue drop-keel Cutter by Small Stuff - 1/24 - plans by H.I.Chapelle

[Small Stuff]

Hello friends of the hullmodel scratchbuilding...

 

Due to the fact I could build a hullmodel of the schooner here my collection of pictures - that will be elaborate during the next days.

And the better detail of the bow part with a pencil to compare.

 

  The beauty will be 900 ^m/_m or nearly 35 ¹/₂ inches long.

and

 

Yours,

Stan

 

Edit:

Adding the last two pictures showing the tremendous size of this hullmmodel and the cutting of the bowsprit.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Small Stuff

[captainbob]

Two build logs of same boat by same person? ? ? ?

 

Bob

[Bugra]

Hello Stan ; 

 

 

Is this your second ? Or one with full rigged and one hull model I guess ? 

 

Anyway, good luck with all of them  

 

Bugra.

[Small Stuff]

Hy Bugra, and yes -indeed Bob...

 

one will be a ¹/₃₂ fully rigged one for the export to Leipzig

and the larger one a ¹/₂₄ hullmodell is done here.

The ¹/₂₄will have a beam moulded by 279,4 ^m/_m  

 

the  ¹/₃₂  scaled of only 209,55 ^m/_m.

 

There will be a lot of work but alltogether the are  "group of two" so I can intertransfer the results I gathered during the time of building.

 

Now I have to structure a scedule hat shipmodel is to built first, second, third, e.& - and finding reasons why I do it in this way. The details of the hoisting apparatus must be shown dramatically clear and fine in 1/2"=1'-0"..

 

Yours,

Stan

Edited February 4, 2014 by Small Stuff

[Small Stuff]

Two build logs of same boat by same person? ? ? ?

 

Bob

 

Thanks Bob

 

by your comment I found the irritation to all the other that don't write... thanks for this I altered the titel.

 

Hth,

Stan

[Small Stuff]

Hy friends,

 

looking to the  sections I see the beastwork is curved to outboards. When I keep them at he bulkheads as "horns" the can break out easyly? Best to see at the first frame in the drawing above - because of the gunport's position.

Should I draw the sections with them or without?

If with them how thick do the have to be - what is the typical thickness of a breastwork?

How to bring the curved surface in a right way - but in what way with or without "horns" at the bulkheads?

 

The copies are to made in ¹/₂₄ tomorrow - the I'll be able to make pictures for you.

 

Yours,

Stan

Edited February 5, 2014 by Small Stuff

[Small Stuff]

By the enlargement of the plans out of the book by 300 % to get a copiable master drawing and again enlarge it by 350% up to the scale of ¹/₂₄

 

But in the copyshop some of the lines grow up to a horrorfying fat broad brush bar... of  ^inch/₁₀

 

So thought about this:

 

I inverted the sections plan into white lines on black ground

and

I'll have to try to redraw it on the middel of the lines.

 

 

Can this be a proper solution? 

 

Stan

Edited February 5, 2014 by Small Stuff

[Small Stuff]

Hy colleges of the sawdust,

 
here the inverted drawing with a imperial and metric ruler and the detail of the lines appearence shown with a 1/2 m/m ruler for you.

 

And b.t.w.   this i-pot cam doesn't work as well as my digicam had had done...

But as we're used to say in Germany:

"But better than nothing!"

 

Yours, Stan

Edited February 6, 2014 by Small Stuff

[Bugra]

Hey Stan ; 

 

Seems you got some work to do, hm ? Good luck with that drawing.. 

 

Btw, why don't you use CAD or PS ?

 

Bugra

[Doreltomin]

Hello, 

 

I have used this trick of blowing up the lines using a photostatic copier with blow-up capabilities many times. This drawback of having big black lines I solved by putting a sheet of clear drawing calque over and re-drawing the lines again, otherwise it will result in a mess. I did not invert the colour as you did, only used a coloured pen (usually, red) over the thick black lines to redraw over. 

 

Good luck with your build(s), will follow you with interest, these drop keels make an interesting feature of which I have wondered the details several times. 

[Small Stuff]

Hey Stan ; 

 

Seems you got some work to do, hm ? Good luck with that drawing.. 

 

Btw, why don't you use CAD or PS ?

 

Bugra

 

 

Thanks Bugra for watching!

 

I think abaout TurboCAD but don't have any experience in CAD... but as far as I understud I can enlarge it and reduce it as I want... 

That's abig sore temptation.

On the other hand I  it will need time to do so - but it's much easier to undo problems as to try to redraw something running wong.

 

 

Yours,

Stan

[Small Stuff]

Hello, 

 

I have used this trick of blowing up the lines using a photostatic copier with blow-up capabilities many times. This drawback of having big black lines I solved by putting a sheet of clear drawing calque over and re-drawing the lines again, otherwise it will result in a mess. I did not invert the colour as you did, only used a coloured pen (usually, red) over the thick black lines to redraw over. 

 

Good luck with your build(s), will follow you with interest, these drop keels make an interesting feature of which I have wondered the details several times. 

 

This is an interestin' tricky thing you do, Tomin!!! I'm usually the one being very well in making thinks much more complicate than anybody else could ever think about it - as in this case again.   

I think I'll try a redrawing of the sectionsplan first on transparent paper to get something I can take the measurements from and "decant" it in the turboCAD...

Yours,

Stan

Edited February 6, 2014 by Small Stuff

[Bugra]

Thanks Bugra for watching!

 

I think abaout TurboCAD but don't have any experience in CAD... but as far as I understud I can enlarge it and reduce it as I want... 

That's abig sore temptation.

On the other hand I  it will need time to do so - but it's much easier to undo problems as to try to redraw something running wong.

 

 

Yours,

Stan

 

Well, 

 

I have a license for AutoCAD 2013 and know a bit PS. I have some time these days. So I can help you whenever you need. Just tell me what you need. 

 

Cheers, Bugra.

[Small Stuff]

Well, 

 

I have a license for AutoCAD 2013 and know a bit PS. I have some time these days. So I can help you whenever you need. Just tell me what you need. 

 

Cheers, Bugra.

 

That's very kind of you, Bugra!!! This evening would be fine.

 

Your's

Stan

[Bugra]

Sure thing! 

 

I'll be around. Feel free to send a PM or mail ( bugrahan.yildiz@gmail.com )  when you're online. 

 

Bugra.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Bugra

[Small Stuff]

She looks at my work, too:

Edited February 7, 2014 by Small Stuff

[captainbob]

She looks like a fine helper.

 

Bob

[Small Stuff]

I've been  able to fix the first line-names tonight - picture will follow. I Think there is a failure in the printing of the plan - only visiable by these tremendous enlargements:

The redline is the BaseLine (BL) and green one the CenterLIne (CL) [the blue one shows where the plywood should end - parallel to BL octogonal to the CL]

the light-blue part of the bulwalk shouldn't "run down". Shoultn't it be maximaly rectangular to the CenterLine  ??? 

 

Edit: I pictured the plan in this way to show the problem very blatant to all of you.

 

Greetings

Stan.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Small Stuff

[Small Stuff]

Suddenly  there is a horrible question   ...is this plan drawn on the moulds or on the plankings outside???

When I enlarged th plan I took the beam on moulds to the half and looked if the breadth is like this in the waterlines drawing... at the formers crossing the bigger dropboard by enlarging out of the book up to something like 1/100 or so.  And when I enlarged to the 1/24 scale I switched (due to the eaasier taking of maesurent on a shorter line) to the breadth in the sectionsplan using the same measurement... was this the wrong way to proceed??????  Even if both is onthe same "slip" of paper????

 

EDIT:

In this photo of the Chapelle plan of the 1806 HMS "Flying Fish" we can easily see the rabbet for the beveled planling - so it is a drawing of the moulds(red) not of the planking's outside (grey). but what about the inverted drawings details in the yellow circel??? Con someone of the sophisticated readers in here tell me what kind of plan this might be?

 

Staying irritated Stan -

 

 

who may be this night able to gauge the hole plan.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Small Stuff

[Small Stuff]

Here the namining of the lines in red:

[harvey1847]

You are starting from A bit of sh***y plan...(rubbish)

 

Do not want to put you off but there is a lot of questions you are asking for. If the plan is what it is just overwiew some   things   about it and complete the draft. I spent (waste) three months trying to draw the HMS Bellona fron the AOS book and finally I dropped the whole thing due to the inaccuaraciesss of the plans.

 

Best wishes anyway and good luck.

 

 

Daniel.

[Bugra]

Hey Stan ; 

 

I think there is only one way to learn this. Live & Learn

 

Anyway, new drafts may have better results. The other alternative, is bread & butter style. Guess, will have more accurate with vertical and horizontal lines.

 

But, If I were you, I act, as the plans drawn without plankings. If it's wrong there is a chance to remove margin with a litte sanding. 

 

Bugra.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Bugra

[Small Stuff]

Dear friends,

 

I read a plenty during the last nights and found again the interesting lines written by Mondfeld in the book "Historic Shipmodeling", In where he pointed out that's most important to know where the model will be placed later - and to search for any historical information you could find.

 

So I'd like to ask two and a half questions to all of you:

 

So I asked myself where to showcase  - and NOT store away -  the model of a single yard later. And so found a place over my four drawer tallboy (an old Louis-Philipe type I restored several years ago to an ash antiquity back from a nurserals red painted furniture for toys.)Then I thought about dust... and about a display cabinet to protect it. After this I came to the question where to put the information belonging to the model for the visitors. (Several models can't be identified nowerdays due to the circumstance of a leck of information - also in the NMM-collection i.e. the well known "The Shearnes"  SLR o368 http://prints.rmg.co.uk/art/515691/Model_of_a_warship_frigate_36-40_guns ). Perhaps my family doesn't bin it at all after my death - so it may pass through sundry hands...

 

I figured out that Chapelle himeself wasn't shure about the distribution of the names of the four ships. As his knowledge is at latest from the 60th there may be some increase of knowledge now. But as I'm a prudent and conservative person I would only like to ink onto the model what is ironclad,

So our R.M.-Wayne    and others may please be so kind to tell me if I have forgotten to add any important/up-to-date information to any beholder - expecially those with naval background.

 

United States drop-keel Revenue Cutter of 66 55/95 tons
built in 1825 for shallow water action - assumed to be "U.S.R.C. Louisiana (II)"

Construction by William Doughty, US Revenue Marine
Plans and information by Howard Irving Chapelle*
Reconstruction and built by CP in 2014 -20??

            Scale:         1/2 inch to the foot = 1/24

                Buildingtyp:     double planked on bulkheads
            Modeltyp:    fully equipped hullmodel

Modelsizes:
                  Length:     hull length** :      863,5 m/m
                             per perpendicles:         762,0 m/m
                    Breadth :    on moulds:         279,4 m/m
                                     on planking:         286,5 m/m
           Draugth:    CWL to false keel:        71,0 m/m
                             CWL to drop board:     125,5 m/m

2 x pivoted 8 pounder long barrel smoothbore muzzelloader on sliding carriage
4 x 18 ponder carronade smoothbore muzzelloader on sliding carriage

    *„The History of the American Sailing Ships“ & „The History of the American Sailing Navy“
    **meted from galion knee to transom bulwalk {LengthDeck: 798,5 m/m  -LengthCWL: 261 m/m }

 

 

(It will be formated nicer as I can do it in here. ) Or should I take the original measurements of the ship instead?  And when I measured the place to be fo it so I find out, that there is a plenty of place on the stand. Because of this I collected the data for the information panel. I think of printing them on laid paper of 190 x 190 m/m in a nice frame under museums-glass.Due to the large scaled will the model will demand a big showing caseof whopping dimensions: L/H/D: 1000/350/350 ^m/_m-  I have been told at the glazier to invest money in a long time thought solution made from UV-absorbing glass and if it will be put in sunlight in summer to finish the hole model supplementary with a row of layers of UV-absorbing clear lacquer in an areosol can - "Yes it's a gargantuan invest - but it will save your work for a very long time.Do you thing that this will be an oversized solution - as we tell it in the IT-department?

 

Thanks for your intrest, answers and help -

 

yours,

 

Stan

Edited February 12, 2014 by Small Stuff

[harvey1847]

[trippwj]

I've been  able to fix the first line-names tonight - picture will follow. I Think there is a failure in the printing of the plan - only visiable by these tremendous enlargements:

The redline is the BaseLine (BL) and green one the CenterLIne (CL) [the blue one shows where the plywood should end - parallel to BL octogonal to the CL]

the light-blue part of the bulwalk shouldn't "run down". Shoultn't it be maximaly rectangular to the CenterLine  ??? 

 

Edit: I pictured the plan in this way to show the problem very blatant to all of you.

 

Greetings

Stan.

 

Stan -

The light blue line would not necessarily be parallel to the base line as it traces the top surface of the curve of the timbers (I want to say sheer line but not sure it is correct in this instance).  There would be a vertical 9as well as lateral) curve to the top lines as you progress from bow to stern - it is evident when you look at the profile.  Not sure about the issue in your subsequent post about the fairly flat bottom and fit into the keel.  Need to ponder that one!

Edited February 12, 2014 by trippwj

[Small Stuff]

Stan -

The light blue line would not necessarily be parallel to the base line as it traces the top surface of the curve of the timbers (I want to say sheer line but not sure it is correct in this instance).  There would be a vertical 9as well as lateral) curve to the top lines as you progress from bow to stern - it is evident when you look at the profile.  Not sure about the issue in your subsequent post about the fairly flat bottom and fit into the keel.  Need to ponder that one!

 

Wayne - thanks for your answer.

 

What I'm really affraid of is the fact that the hole drawing is a distorted one - (perhaps only in this single book?).     So the hole project would be raised in question. Because my basic data is corrupted.

Or may it be an effect of the enlargement in the copyshop based on the working of the paper in the heat of the copying process?

 

I don't want to give up the (model) ship!!!

 

 

Hopefully you can understand my anxieties,

 

Stan

Edited February 12, 2014 by Small Stuff

[harvey1847]

 

Not sure about the issue in your subsequent post about the fairly flat bottom and fit into the keel.  Need to ponder that one!

 

What about if it has to do with the two pair of "dropping keels". The body plan just show us a rough idea of the hull. There must be more detailed draws from the surveyors that has been lost or simply the draws were in their brain.

 

 

I don't want to give up the (model) ship!!!

 

Way to go!! By using spilines in CAD you can get a pretty good draw again. You can PM me with your mail and send a .pdf or .jpg and I will re-draw it for you if you want. I use AutoCAD 2011. The body plan is crucial.

 

Keep going!

 

 

Daniel.

[Small Stuff]

Tomorrow I hope to find some time to begion to put some basic lines of the section plan into my TurboCAD and trying to print it on transparent paper to get a scaledplan out of the work I do... Daniels support will bring a plenty much more details to the body plan.

 

I take my measurements allways from the very middel of the lines - because there must be the original line of points from where they were enlarged.

 

Yours

Stan

Edited February 14, 2014 by Small Stuff

[Small Stuff]

The section plan shows the moulds - because when I put the section ogf the hoistin apparatus under the transparant paper the sidelines crossed the inner side of the planking amd the edging of the formers!!!

 

:dancetl6: :dancetl6:

Edited February 14, 2014 by Small Stuff

[Small Stuff]

Daniel sent me the sectionplan drawn by his AutoCAD-knowledge ! I maanaged to print it - tomorrow I'm going to enlarge the drawing in the copyshop. He also send me some literature about historical shipdesign in CAD

 

So I will try to work out the basebord at the central part of the sideview - so I'm going to start this evening with TurboCAD Designer 14 a 2D-program...starting with some Youtube Tutorials.

 

 

 

Till Than,

 

Stan