HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class

[AON]

... continued

 

10. Solidworks completes the lofted feature shell shape.  It will default to a GRAY colour that can be changed by picking the “right mouse button” over the area.  A menu table pops up. Pick APPEARANCE…

11. Pick COLOR, then pick the colour of your choice.

12. I then begin the process for a new LOFT FEATURE for the second group of stations

     Picking the GUIDE LINES as describe previously

13. Pick the PROFILE LINES and Solidworks fills in the shape.  I have do this is increments of no more than three frames as my poor old computer gets confused with too much math and crashes if I ask too much of it. I then pick the green check mark to accept what the program created,  Pick REBUILD and SAVE before I attempt the next group.

14. In the end I once again had the complete hull lofted.  I have yet to complete the stern transom shape

Edited August 27, 2014 by AON

[AON]

... continued

 

15. Laying out the stern transom

 

Next will be the lofting feature to add the shape to the hull ... but I still have some figuring out to do

Edited August 27, 2014 by AON

[druxey]

Very nice, Don - but I still think I'll stick with manual lofting!

[AON]

I've drawn in blending guidelines at the waterlines to assist in lofting the lower hull

I've looked at great images in various books and photos on the forum of Vanguard and Bellona to understand the shaping of the lower transom timbers

Just when I think it makes perfect sense I come to my sketches and the vision is gone!

I doesn't make sense

I know this has got to be easier than I am presently experiencing but until I can see it in my mind and hold onto the image while looking at my sketch I feel I am doomed to float on uncontrollably in still waters.

 

It will come sometime soon (I hope)

 

[hexnut]

Nice job on the bow, the hull is looking smooth!

 

I've been doing surfacing for a long time, but once and a while I still get stuck.  I heartily recommend printing out your center section (keel, deadwood, transom profile) and your aft-most station views, mount them on mat board, glue-em together and hack in the transition area with modelling clay, foam or balsa until it starts making sense. You can then take lines and sections out using a profile gauge or tracing paper, then fair and attach the curves back in SW. 

 

Sometimes 15 minutes with a sketch mock-up will save many hours of 3d modeling time...

Edited August 28, 2014 by hexnut

[AON]

Good afternoon Hexnut and thank you for the suggestion.

 

I think what I will do first is ignore the upper transom outline as I've pondered on it (off and on all day) and I think that is what is blocking my vision.

 

If I try to loft the hull up to the upper most lower transom timber below the top of the stern post and see how she looks I might be pleasantly surprised.

 

After all most of what makes up the upper transom seems like an after thought, "tacked on" like the officers "out houses" and sunset viewing "railed balcony".... they certainly new how to live!

Edited August 28, 2014 by AON

[Don9of11]

She's coming along Alan, and she's looking good. Your lofting of the bow looks great and I'll be paying close attention to your stern progress.

[AON]

I turned of the distracting layout

I drew a shortened station 30-2

I drew a couple more guidelines at the keel and stern post rabbet lines

 

Opened a new loft feature

picked my guidelines

picked my profile lines and there it was

 

[AON]

I now have two issues to deal with

1. the hull near the stern is not so "fair" and needs some tending to

2. the top edge of the lower transom should be angled or sloped downwards and it isn't

 

I thought I would simple create a sketch and "extrude cut" out the slope

You can see when I tried that the program does not give me the option to extrude cut

 

I think I need to create a sloped plane to draw the upper guide line on so the lofted feature will end properly at the top edge

but not now... time for breakfast and getting ready for the work day.

[druxey]

Part of the issue seems to be the wing transom. The upper outer corner should meet the aft side of the last frame at an angle, not a curve.

[AON]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

I'll have to take another long look at volume 1 of TFFM as there is a pretty good tutorial in it

[SpencerC]

Is this a virtual ship or something?

[AON]

 

at the moment it seems like it

 

I am transferring from the almost 300 year old plans to a fresh 3D model in an attempt to create templates for material cutting....albeit it is going much slower than this old feller thought it would.

 

Learning tons along the way.

[AON]

I've been busy with the expansion of my workroom and am now down to taping and mudding the joints.

Then is painting and moving all the gear back in.  That gets me that much closer to building my model.  

 

After looking at a few books, builds on the forum and my plans I think I understand the upper wing transom comment.

 

I made adjustments by adding reference points and manipulating the guide line to the shape on the plan.

here are the results.

 

I'll have to get some of the dents out of the hull that I noticed at the stern before I start slicing the frames and making templates.... but I am that much closer.  

[Don9of11]

Nice work Alan! The development of the stern area makes the bow look easy

[druxey]

This framing photo shows you how the wing transom is shaped at the outer corners. (This model is of a sixth rate, so is smaller and has less transoms than a 74, but is essentially similar.) Note the smooth run of the filling transoms' surfaces up to the margin line. There is no sharp turn or bend, which appears on your frame grab.

[AON]

My NRG mentor is reviewing the whole model at the moment and I am certain he will have similar comments!

 

I am late off to work this morning as I have a cracked tooth that will be tended to in less than a hour... so I have a moment to see the example.

 

I see the sharp bend on the aft underside of the model you are referring to and I am thinking I'll need more guidelines to remove it.

 

Hope to have an opportunity to tackle it tonight

 

Thank you Druxey

 

 

DON: I'm glad it looks easy!  If I were better at this 3D stuff I might believe you  

[AON]

Well!

 

Should be easy.... right?

 

I drew in two additional guidelines offset from the sheerline at 5 feet and 10 feet

I then attempted to add them to the lofted feature.

 

ERROR the guidlines do not intersect with the profile line

 

JFTHOI I switched them from being guidelines to profile lines

 

ERROR

 

So I shall attempt to draw new guidelines that intersect with the profile line and see what new error message appears

 

[AON]

So I created three new guide curves at 15, 30 and 50 degrees down from the top side of the wing transom being horizontal.

These guide lines connect (pierce) a profile line.... stern post rabbet line.

 

I then added these to the guidelines in the loft feature and the result is not what I imagined

Now the hull has, of all things, FOLDS!   

 

Don - I've seen your work.  If you have any idea how I should have done this I would be greatful to hear

 

If anyone else can offer some guidance I am at this moment your attentive student.

 

Other than those options... I'll be chewing on this for a wee bit in an attempt to imagine how else I might do this properly  

Edited September 11, 2014 by AON

[AON]

Having slept on it last night I tried something new early this morning.... shorter guidelines that start/end at the two profile lines.

 

This failed also.

 

Then I had another idea while having my morning shower... I've always found that I "cracked the code" to many design conundrums during my morning shower.. this might be a strange way to resolve a problem but it usually works for me.

 

I will try my new idea tonight if I have the time.

 

The idea is to create a multitude of new horizontal planes beginning just below the top side of the wing transom and then drawing new guide lines of the sliced profile at these decreasing elevations... adding these to the loft feature and hopefully the result will be what is wanted. I may need to remove the original guide lines after the new sketches are complete if the loft should fail with them.

 

Once again, if someone has another idea please let me know.... and thank you for following.

Edited September 11, 2014 by AON

[Don9of11]

 

 

You're farther along than I am Alan but I given this some thought and here is what I come up with, forgive the crudeness of my sketches :

 

A) lower left, draw in phantom stations (red) after frame 36 making sure they follow the wing and deck transoms and tie everything together at the keel with guide curves, then trim away what you don't need

 

A1) upper right, draw in the counter timbers, wing and deck transoms and then "flesh" it out from there.

 

 

After the last frame, the ship is basically open and now you're trying to "cap" it and I think you're going to need the counter timbers and transom geometries to do this or perhaps a combination of both ideas.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Don9of11

[AON]

Thank you Don

 

I'll have to chew on this for awhile to figure out "how".

 

Working with a thin loft feature does not seem to allow me to "trim" or "extrude cut".

 

I think my last idea has some merit particularly when I join the thought with what you've described above.

 

Wish me luck!

 

Alan

[hexnut]

 

 

I agree with what Don said about the counter geometry, plus I would suggest you don't try to get all of that geometry in one surface.  I would:

1. cut the lower portion back a bit (to the teal surface on the attached sketch)

2. draw in and trim the gently curving rear transom geometry (red surface)

3. add in the teal surface as a transition, starting as a variable section round from the top of the red surface and ending straight and parallel to the deadwood at the rabbet line.

 

Hopefully that was at least slightly helpful...

[AON]

Thank you Hexnut.

 

Your sketch along with Don's helps quite a bit... but I'll still need time to digest it all and formulate my plan of attack    

Divide and conquer, eh?!?

(Did my Canadian just slip out?)

 

I was just starting to attempt my idea and it made more sense early this morning

Having a wee bit of difficulty executing it.  

 

Alan

[AON]

FORGIVE MY ANCIENTNESS

 

Are you suggesting I not use the loft feature but rather complete the aft portion as a solid which will allow me to extrude shapes and "trim" away to get what I need?

 

Holy old bald headed saint dulibon... I think that would do it!

[AON]

Having  read and re-read both messages, I've slept on it yet again and am leaning towards attempting to continue with the lofting  feature for now although switching to a solid feature might be easier ... something to work out over the weekend.

 

In either case I find this part is quite challenging

Edited September 12, 2014 by AON

[hexnut]

I was actually talking about still using lofted surfs, just doing the lower transom as a square driven by the waterline curves, so as not to distort the edges, then trimming it with a surface projected from a rear elevation sketch plane, similar in technique to how you cut the top in side elevation to define the bulwarks:

 

[AON]

I have been trying to get the lofting of the stern done and had continuously "failed"

(between that and my computer crashing)

 

I sketched in a grid work of guide lines to improve the shape

I sliced and dice it

I broke it up into wee pieces in an attempt to get portions of it to work

 

Finally last night I had an epiphany

I turned it all sideways in my mind

used the horizontal lines to be the profile lines versus the guide lines

Used the vertical lines to be the guide lines versus the profile lines

The damn thing finally seemed to work on the upper wing transom area

or at least about 80% as it did not follow all the curves I had but the shape is seemingly more proper in that there are no waves, folds or creases.

 

I will continue on this path a wee bit at a time until she hopefully fills in

Edited September 19, 2014 by AON

[AON]

Had a moment before breakfast so I gave it a go and all lofted easily except the last bit left undone which gave me grief

 

As there are no timbers in this area from which this loft would be used for the templates I am considering leaving well enough alone and attacking the stern top half

Edited September 19, 2014 by AON

[druxey]

Ha! I think he's almost got it. There appears to be a small suspect area remaining just below the corner of the wing transom. The outermost buttock line looks as if the bend there is a bit too sharp. You might want to review that. Full marks for persistence, Alan.